OT Bill Belichick 56-67 without Brady
Bill Belichick deserves the title as greatest coach in NFL history.
However, his coaching record is about to fall to 56 and 67 all time without Tom Brady.
The more the Patriots struggle the more the sports programs that like to talk about which one was more responsible for the success of the Patriots will slant towards Brady.
October 25th, 2020 at 6:13 PM ^
A few games into the season is a small sample size.
October 25th, 2020 at 6:14 PM ^
Yes, but 123 games is not a small sample size (>7 1/2 full NFL seasons worth of games).
October 25th, 2020 at 6:15 PM ^
I get that Belichick could turn it around, but 123 games without Brady and a 45% winning percentage in them isn't a small sample size.
October 25th, 2020 at 6:18 PM ^
A lot of that must come from his time with the Browns though, right? That was very early in his career. Belichick was a very different coach with the Patriots, when he earned his accolades. The only season he had without Brady in New England was when Brady was injured that one year and they went 11-5.
October 25th, 2020 at 6:30 PM ^
Which is a pretty significant drop from the 16-0 record they had the year before
October 25th, 2020 at 6:34 PM ^
yes and no, because they would have reverted towards the mean regardless.
October 25th, 2020 at 6:51 PM ^
Actually, their offensive production dropped significantly.
Regular Season only Stats:
2007 Brady 50 TDs and 8 INTs 4,806 yards at 68.9% completions (589 team points)
2008 Cassell 21 TDs and 11 INTs, with 3,693 yards at 63.4% completions (410 team points)
Keep in mind that Cassell was a good QB that then made the Pro Bowl with another team.
October 26th, 2020 at 1:04 AM ^
To be fair the production was going to drop significantly when they had to replace the GOAT after one of his best seasons. Less talented qb, probably run more as well
October 25th, 2020 at 6:38 PM ^
Belichick was 37-45 in Cleveland (including playoffs).
So if the other numbers are accurate, that still puts Belichick at only 19-22 without Brady at New England.
October 25th, 2020 at 7:30 PM ^
Actually his record in New England without Brady is 19-22. "If" he finishes his career in New England holding a losing record without Brady it may be a bit of a sting in the talks of the greatest of all time.
October 25th, 2020 at 8:30 PM ^
19-22 when you're organization can't prepare for your starting quarterback being gone is fantastic.
October 26th, 2020 at 9:43 AM ^
No, his first season he also did not have Brady as the starter and had a losing record. His second season he was 0-2 before Brady took over as the starter. He’s done some great things and is obviously an all time great, but his lack of success without Brady will be a huge part of how he is viewed. Unless he turns things around quickly, a lot of season left and a lot of years left for him.
October 26th, 2020 at 10:58 AM ^
In his first season with the Pats, Belichick was taking over a mediocre team and a generally pretty weak franchise. A lot of coaches don't have a ton of success in year one as they install their systems. That's hardly a significant knock against him.
If you look at the early Patriots years, when Brady was still very young, he just wasn't anywhere near the QB that he is now and that he has been for most of his career. Those early successes were built primarily on Belichick's defenses.
October 25th, 2020 at 6:22 PM ^
That's a misleading stat since most of those games were with the terrible Browns and he made them a pretty good (12 win) team.
For this year, you have to remember 6 Pats starters opted out of the season, more than any team.
October 25th, 2020 at 6:26 PM ^
'There are lies, damned lies, and statistics.'
'Numbers don't lie.'
This is the paradox of life in a post-truth society.
October 25th, 2020 at 10:59 PM ^
More fiction has been written in Excel than Word
October 26th, 2020 at 4:23 AM ^
Belichick’s best year with Cleveland was 11-5.
October 25th, 2020 at 6:46 PM ^
Meanwhile Brady is 31/43 for 346 yds, 3 TDs and 0 INTs: a few minutes from taking a team with a losing record last year that has not had a winning season for a decade and has not made the playoffs since 2007 to the division lead at 5-2.
October 25th, 2020 at 7:04 PM ^
Belichick got lucky with Brady. I bet there are several other coaches out there who would have done pretty well if they had Brady, too. Andy Reid in Philly comes to mind, hell, maybe even Bill Parcels with the Jets.
October 25th, 2020 at 7:23 PM ^
October 25th, 2020 at 7:18 PM ^
System QB my ass.
October 25th, 2020 at 7:21 PM ^
Matt Patricia is 12-25-1 without Brady. Am I doing this right?
October 25th, 2020 at 7:55 PM ^
Yes, in fact, that is exactly how to do this.
October 25th, 2020 at 7:56 PM ^
he should retire, which is called "pulling a Mork Dantoni"
October 25th, 2020 at 9:58 PM ^
It doesn't help that Cam Newton is also looking terrible.
October 25th, 2020 at 9:58 PM ^
It doesn't help that Cam Newton is also looking terrible.
October 25th, 2020 at 10:17 PM ^
Wayne Fontes has a better record without Brady. . .
October 25th, 2020 at 10:28 PM ^
Tampa Bay has 222 points at the end of this week, most in the league.
October 25th, 2020 at 11:44 PM ^
Tom Brady is 5-2 without Belichick
October 26th, 2020 at 12:19 AM ^
Belichick is a brilliant coach. Not perfect, just great. One of the best ever if not "the best". Anyway, obviously Brady-Belichick combo was a perfect match.
This Patriot team is missing many players and also has other shortcomings and not the least of which is the fact that Cam Newton is really not a very good passer. He's not the same guy as 3 years ago... and his leadership skills are also not very good. He gets down too easily, basically he is still immature. It's only a one year deal as far as I know but the Pats need more than just a new QB.
You can't win with crap players, Belichick is a master of roster moves which is mostly what makes him great but sometimes the situation dictates.
So all good things....
October 26th, 2020 at 2:06 AM ^
He's bringing in a new QB this season - one who missed most of last season and didn't even have an exhibition game, let alone much off-season time, to learn the offense. There are OL problems, made worse by opt-outs. And he's the last Cleveland Browns coach to win a playoff game (over the Patriots, natch).
It's hard to separate Brady and Belichick when it comes to who deserves the most credit for the team's success (or Bob Kraft, for that matter). But I'd hesitate to call either one anything less than Hall of Fame level. The Patriots have had a amazing run under the confines of the salary cap and I wouldn't bet against them next season even though a comeback this season seems unlikely.
October 26th, 2020 at 7:00 AM ^
Yes, people overlook Kraft. Maybe he rubs people the wrong way but he's tugged that organization to greatness.
October 26th, 2020 at 10:56 AM ^
Agreed. While they won’t finish their careers together, 6 championships is still a happy ending by any measure.
October 26th, 2020 at 12:28 PM ^
A+ for creativity!!
October 26th, 2020 at 7:11 AM ^
Yup, Belichick's ego definitely got the best of him there, not saying Brady doesn't have an ego, but one definitely looks better in all of this than the other
October 26th, 2020 at 7:13 AM ^
They both needed each other to varying degrees and whatever happens from this season onward does not dilute Belichek’s legacy at all. He could lose the rest of his games this season and it doesn’t change anything about what he’s done up to this point.
But Brady sure making it look like NE made a huge mistake letting him go. They’re also reaping the fruits of not surrounding him with the weapons he needed to get the job done, because Cam has also now got no one to throw to. Not one single, reliable weapon on that offense today.
Meanwhile, look at what Brady is doing now in Tampa. He’s got what appears to be a resurgent Gronk (maybe he’s not 100% but he’s good enough to be an effective piece), two All Pro receivers and likely adding a third in AB, and two very talented RBs in Fournette and Jones. And let’s not forget about a great defense that’s helping get him the ball back.
Brady has as much to work with now as he ever had at any point in his career. Possibly even more than the ‘07 year with Randy Moss. As of today, it’s looking like Belichek needed Brady more than the other way around. Brady sure made that offense look much better last year than it really was. It’s all the same guys from last year, now you take away Brady and see what they really are without the GOAT.
October 26th, 2020 at 9:53 AM ^
This season so far has shown just how valuable the QB is relative to all other positions what with Brady lifting the Buccanears (I'll never call them the "Bucs" due to OSU), Patriots struggling, and Dallas plummeting without Dak.
October 26th, 2020 at 11:13 AM ^
Maybe Belichick is the Jerry Krause of the NFL. Had the GOAT on his team and won a ton of titles but wanted to prove he could win without him. Got his chance, then it all fell apart in epic fashion
October 26th, 2020 at 12:16 PM ^
Come on man, horrible reference. Saying its Belichick or Brady is an offense to guys like Ty Law, Seymour, Bruschi, Vrable, Welker, Edelman, McGinest, Gronk, and all the other great players who built this dynasty. Neither gets there without the tremendous other players who've made up these teams.
Just finished The Dynasty, about the Pats run. Heard the writer has a 2nd book coming, The Dumpster, which is history of the Lions under the Ford family.
October 26th, 2020 at 2:09 PM ^
Bellichick is also 0-and-Forever in games in which he doesn't cheat.
October 26th, 2020 at 2:42 PM ^
I wonder what Phil Jacksons record looks like if he didn't have some of the greatest NBA players of all time on his teams.....
October 27th, 2020 at 2:32 PM ^
The relative lack of success of the Belichik coaching tree seems a little suggestive about the relative importance of Brady vs Belichik. Maybe his executive tree has had a bit more success.
Regarding starting 5-11: it wasn't a rebuild, he took over a team that Bill Parcells and Pete Carroll had coached the last seven years.