Was Michigan's Offense Better When Jedd Fisch Was Coaching It?
Jedd Fisch was the QBs, WRs, and Passing Game Coordinator in Jim Harbaugh's first 2 years at Michigan. Since then, Pep Hamilton has been the Passing Game Coordinator for Jim Harbaugh, in the last 1 year plus. Some are blaming the offensive line, and Tim Drevno (last year) for how the passing game has looked the last 1 plus years. But Tim Drevno coached the offensive line when Jedd Fisch was here.
So, is the difference between how the passing game has looked in Jim Harbaugh's first 2 years, and how it has looked in the last 1 year plus, been the difference between Jedd Fisch and Pep Hamilton?
Or that question way off base, and it is other factors, say, the offensive tackles? Were the offensive tackles that much better when Jedd Fisch was here?
September 2nd, 2018 at 8:50 AM ^
Yes, but only because that team actually had a semi decent offensive line which Fisch had nothing to do with.
Only reason the offense keeps getting worse is because the OL keeps getting worse. They can’t throw deep at all because they can’t protect for longer than 2s. And even on normal plays, 1 out of every 4 or 5 plays is disrupted by someone getting in the backfield right after the Snap. Tough to have a good offense when that happens.
September 2nd, 2018 at 10:47 AM ^
Yes. The OL is what's really killing us here. Shea was running for his life on most pass plays.
September 2nd, 2018 at 11:16 AM ^
I thought everyone was complaining how bad the offensive line was that Brady Hoke left Jim Harbaugh, using the Jadeveon Clowney play as an example.
September 2nd, 2018 at 1:53 PM ^
It's been bad for awhile, though the problem has shifted from the interior to the tackles.
September 2nd, 2018 at 7:44 AM ^
So much for the offseason shakeup of the coaching staff.
September 2nd, 2018 at 9:23 AM ^
More shake-ups = more confusion.
September 2nd, 2018 at 7:47 AM ^
Yes.
The OTs were better but the interior was worse. FSU is still having free rushers to the QB but they moved the ball. The difference is now when the line gives good protection nothing comes of it.
UM did nothing last night to help the OTs. No screens, no chips, no swing passes. The O just hasnt looked good since Pep got here.
Pep's O couldnt move the ball last year against Air Force or Cincy. Later in the season the only way to move the ball was running it.
Pep has never coordinated a good offense without Luck. I think he keeps getting jobs because he is a good guy who is down to earth with a level head. But, that doesnt mean he can scheme.
I know it is JH's offense but someone is suggesting plays and there are only so many seconds between plays.
September 2nd, 2018 at 8:52 AM ^
You could put the best QB in CFB back there for Michigan and it wouldn’t change a thing so I don’t buy a single Andrew Luck argument. Everything starts with the OL.
Also, for the 1,000th time: HARBAUGH IS THE OFFFENSIVE COORDINATOR. Always has been and always will be. This is his offense. Not Fisch’s, not Drevno’s, and not Pep’s.
When people complain about the offense, the guy you really need to fire to fix that (if you think it will fix that) is Harbaugh.
September 2nd, 2018 at 9:23 AM ^
I agree JH deserves a lot of the criticism and it is his offense. But Pep is on staff and he has to be doing something. He suggests plays and JH has the final say. Maybe that is why it takes so long to get the play in. Who knows. But the offense was JHs the first two years too and they didnt look nearly this terrible. Sure, the OL is bad. But it is not 'can barely move the ball against Air Force' bad. And the OL was bad the first two years. Maybe it is a coincidence but the passing game has been bad since Pep has been at UM.
September 2nd, 2018 at 3:01 PM ^
100% accurate..... you want to help your line and beat pressure. Bring out some draws, screens, etc. Chip the end. Take advantage of their aggression. .... you know who figured that out early in the game BRIAN KELLY!!!! He was able to take advantage of Michigan's aggressive defensive line and spark some big plays. Uggghhhhhhh out coached by Brian Kelly.
September 2nd, 2018 at 7:58 AM ^
Speight sure seemed to take a step back when Jedd left.
The line is the root of the problem, but Pep isn't helping. We just don't have the players to do what he wants to do.
Harbaugh gets a lot of blame as well.
September 2nd, 2018 at 8:02 AM ^
I don't think Fisch was any better than average as a college OC. We've just been awful since.
September 2nd, 2018 at 8:02 AM ^
What is Jedd up to these days anyway?
September 2nd, 2018 at 8:51 AM ^
Offensive analyst with the Rams. Harbaugh should hire him as OC and QB coach tomorrow.
September 2nd, 2018 at 8:54 AM ^
Is Fisch going to fix the tackle situation?
September 2nd, 2018 at 8:06 AM ^
Our offense was better pretty much every year before these last two over the last two decades
Our offense this game and last year is really the worst I can remember. I'm in my mid 20s. I dont recall ever having this little faith in our team to score a touchdown
Red zone? Pfft we look the lions. You inevitably know were just going to kick a field goal is what it feels like
September 2nd, 2018 at 10:49 AM ^
Our offense was better pretty much every year before these last two over the last two decades
Hoke's last two years? RichRod's first two?
There's been a lot of suck on offense over the last decade, unfortunately.
September 2nd, 2018 at 8:09 AM ^
This is Jim Harbaugh's Offense, he calls the plays and chooses who the QB will be.
If you would actually pay attention to the video's you post on here you would understand that.
September 2nd, 2018 at 8:32 AM ^
Harbaugh does NOT call the plays, but maybe he should start!
Own this shit! Been saying that since last year. It NEEDS - no, cries OUT FOR - direction & urgency.
More Evans, more screens, more constraints against relentless pass rush that laughs at M's OT play!
September 2nd, 2018 at 10:15 AM ^
This has been litigated here before - if you have info that proves that he doesn't make the calls than lets hear it.
September 2nd, 2018 at 10:45 AM ^
From everything I could gather in the off-season...
I don't know if Jim chooses pass or run first, or hears out both play calls. But the run coordinator gives Jim a run play and the pass coordinator gives Jim a pass play. Jim can choose to veto a play and change it if he wants AND if the play clock allows OR if we aren't attempting to go up-tempo because there is no time to change plays then. This could be why our 2 min offense looks so slow? Jim does not call the plays. He goes with the play his coordinators call. It's impossible to determine how many plays Jim vetos into his own choice but with the play clock always ticking its likely not too many.
Supposedly Harbaugh has had this system in place since year 1 here and is nothing new.
September 2nd, 2018 at 12:10 PM ^
If this is the case then they need to scrap this because it is very inefficient but the end result is that it goes through Harbaugh so he is making the call.
September 2nd, 2018 at 8:14 AM ^
It was MUCH better, that offense last night was pathetic.
September 2nd, 2018 at 8:26 AM ^
Bring back Jedd!
And Graham Glasgow!
September 2nd, 2018 at 8:31 AM ^
I remember an off season anonymous coach quote after 2015 that said that we run new plays in 60% of our offense every week (or maybe it was 60 new plays?). Either way, that seems like it's no longer the case. Hardly any type of creativity. Jet sweeps, end arounds, Fullback dives, wheel routes. We did all sorts of trickery type things in 15 and 16 and it worked great. Now, it seems like they're trying to run an NFL offense. This is what made Lloyd Carr's offenses so terrible the last few years.
September 2nd, 2018 at 8:52 AM ^
Exactly. The offense was creative back then. Now, now so much.
September 2nd, 2018 at 9:23 AM ^
Look. It's very clear that Jedd is a better now. There are still significant amount of fans thinking about him after two years. He helped the QB to develop through out two seasons. Not so much for Pep. Pep may be a good teacher, but that doesn't mean he's a good game plan designer and good play caller. Those skills take another level to make a choice in a few seconds and work with what the defense can give them.
Let's zoom out this problem in a larger time span and scope. the fundamental problem is still Harbaugh himself. Let's put out a few points here and think about it.
1. Harbaugh's incompetent decision when he started in Michigan in personnel and hiring in offense.
He hired Drevno, promised him OC. I don't want to say this is a disaster hire, it's not. But just look around the NCAA, tell me a good OC that his primary background is a O-line coach. we saw many failure before. you will find some good HC are from OL coach, but not an good OC who is from OL coach. For some reason, Harbaugh offer him probably enough to drag him out of west coast. But he screwed up big on this one to being loyal for this decision for just one year too long and cause unhappy Wheatly and Jedd to leave. We lost two very good offensive coaching staff on both recruiting and player development. Again, my point is that even JH's calling style is by committee, and he is the ultimate filter of every single play call, he still needs the running game and passing game coordinators to feed him the play options. Drevno is not too bad on running calls but likely limited to his power play, not the zone stuff they start at the beginning of the last season.
Then, another his fumble is Jay Harbaugh. We could have spent the same amount of money to hire a top 15 RB or TE coach, but because he's JH's son, he got the job. It's not the problem of the offense. But he was masked well in the program to become "not the problem". We could have hire a better coach to contribute more. Just look how Saban handle the business with their OC and staff, there is a reason, as much as we hate Alabama, you cannot deny how well Saban manage the team on both coaching staff and players. You can say whatever you want on his recruit talents being superior to anyone else, but Saban is very competent when it come down to hire an OC, and provide the best opportunity to their players to succeed. Harbaugh fumbles this hard. I am okay with Chris Patridge on the team because he's too crucial to lose for recruiting. But Jay Harbaugh is pretty much replacable here, if he can find a same RB or TE coaching job on another TOP 15 P5 team, I will shut the fock up. The chance is he won't in short term.
2. Harbaugh's decision on hiring Pep and stick with him.
We have enough sample size now to see the down trend on offense, including RED ZONE OFFENSE (yes, I put it on CAP), 3rd down pass selection, a predictable game plan. Harbaugh is likely the one who choose the play call. But it's clear to me that what the options he got from Pep is much worse than what he got it from Jedd. There is reason when JH had a high praise on Jedd after a few games. He's creative. It takes a lot to have the skills to call the right play at the right time. Harbaugh is a very good HC, but he still need good support around him. We have to realize that he's no magician. He's above average when it come down to QB development, but he's no magician on that either.
Guy, don't be disguised by the AMAZOn all or nothing series. I completely agree with other fans on that film on Pep. they are trying to protrait him as a good play caller and the problem last year was on Drevno and the players just for recruiting purpose. But that doesn't align well on the field last season, not the first game this season. His play calling is supbar.
It's hard to see Harbaugh is a good coach we love to put himself on the hot seat with these incompetent hire. Look, Joe Pa or Jim Tressel or Urban Meyer can hire their sons or mentor's grandson. But they have solidify their position by winning championship in the program. Harbaugh is not there yet and cannot afford to do that. I am sure a lot of fans are like me, very disappointed with his decision on the offense, We have all the talents on all positions except for OL (issue got amplified due to RR's incompetence in recruiting OL, Hoke's incompetence in developing OL)
3. What Harbaugh said about Stanford and Michigan is very true. Unfortunately, you cannot deny that.
I know there will be a lot of disagreement here. But been seeing the Stanford team Harbaugh coached in Stanford. They have less physical talents than the current Michigan team. But it's very obvious that they play very smart. Some of those smartness translated to many of those players' NFL career. they have a very thick playbook, probably 3x more thicker than what we currently have. It takes limited time for player to prepare for the season in NCAA, a smart, high IQ player, group and team can make a lot of difference how he/they can grasp the concept and put into action. And in the fourth year of JH's career in Michigan, we are talking about simplifying the play book?! Simplifying the play book/play call in the fourth year? You smell disaster and mismanagement here. That tells you something if JH's play book is at least similar or fundamentally close between this two eras. He knew he has to adjust now, but couple with bad OL development and bad OC. Not easy. It's quetionable now even he relegate Pep and promote Jim McEwain as OC. his offense in Florida is not promising either. we can only pray the OL player develop well enough to survive the season. But I don't want Pep to be on this team next year, not as OC or primary play call/game plan designer.
I like Jim Harbaugh and still on his bandwagon, but the patience is fading given my take on his offensive coaching staff decisions in the past 4 years. Some of them will not be easy for him to change, for example, his son's hire. Don't give me crap that Jay Harbaugh is okay. Again, we can find more competent coach to replace him no matter what position he coaches on at this point. He can be a good coach down the road, but not here and not now. This is not pointing finger to a single person, it's Jim Harbaugh's mismanagement in his offensive hiring.
September 2nd, 2018 at 9:30 AM ^
Stopped reading at Jebb...and shit man, my coffee would be cold by the time I finished.
September 2nd, 2018 at 9:42 AM ^
Be easy man. I got my name screwed up by american all the time, the most recent one just yesterday when I opened a bank account, the staff type my name with my driver license on her hand, still mess up with one character, the one that most other mess when they saw my name.
I am not a native English speaker, but i am fascinating how some American pay attention to little things that is irrelevant and forget about the big picture. And just pay attention to a play or a call and forget about what led to that situation.
September 2nd, 2018 at 9:25 AM ^
Harbaugh has plenty of 2-3* offensive linemen coming in the 2019 class. Problem solved.
September 2nd, 2018 at 10:10 AM ^
We're in year 4...it'll take another 2-3 years for these recruits to get decent. So year 7 we can look for ignition?
September 2nd, 2018 at 9:41 AM ^
The better question is why is Jay our RB coach? It's outrageous that we never replaced Wheatley and put a son who's a glorified graduate assistant (in experience at least) into that position. RB play has needed help for years. We essentially do not have a running backs coach on our staff...
September 2nd, 2018 at 10:09 AM ^
Year 1 of Harbaugh was, arguably, his best year. So much more competent and it seems we've gone backwards in various areas each year.
September 2nd, 2018 at 10:50 AM ^
I think it's become abundantly clear that David Shaw had more to do with Stanford's offensive success than JH did.
September 2nd, 2018 at 10:52 AM ^
I am not sure about this. Stanford is slowly regressing too. However, I can't deny JH and D Shaw tag team is very productive.
September 2nd, 2018 at 2:05 PM ^
Shaw as HC for the Cardinal has been even better, going 3-1 in PAC 12 Championship games. At this point Harbaugh may be willing to give up his left nut just to reach one B1G Championship game.
September 2nd, 2018 at 6:26 PM ^
well, USC and Oregon has been going down due to their coach change after Harbaugh left. So David Shaw has faced less competitive teams as well. I have watched their game especially bowl game and some big games. I don't see they play better than JH's team offensively. that said, a lot can come from Andrew Luck, so it's hard to say who was the main factors.
September 2nd, 2018 at 11:25 AM ^
Jim Harbaugh at head coach, and David Shaw at offensive coordinator, was a great combination.
September 2nd, 2018 at 5:32 PM ^
Yes, light years better. That's not even debatable. I suppose the debatable part is Jedd's level of involvement in the excellence of the offense vs. Harbaugh's. At this point though, I would certainly be willing to gamble and out the throw game back in jedds hands.
September 2nd, 2018 at 5:55 PM ^
The idea that Jedd Fisch was coaching the offense is preposterous. We know how Harbaugh structured his staff. Why would Fisch have more say than the guys do now? Why doesn’t anyone else want to hire hm?
September 2nd, 2018 at 6:29 PM ^
He may not be a good OC alone, but he definitely support JH very well at least in terms of passing game play calling and design.