Disgraceful Officiating in Huge Moment for NCAA
Ok, so, I just had to post about this because I think it showcases how the NCAA's problems with officiating is systemic and even extends to women's sports. But, in case you missed it, LSU just beat Iowa in the women's national championship game in what was a highly anticipated matchup. However, it was a contest marred by incompetent officiating and it basically became the story of the game.
It's such a shame because it was an absolutely colossal moment/showcase for the sport as it was expected to draw one of its biggest audiences ever. I'm not sure what the ratings will be, but I know a TON of people who are not women's basketball fans who tuned in. And literally every one of them thought the officiating was downright horrible and it had a major impact on the game, particularly Iowa's star players.
The officiating was definitely not great both ways; LSU freaked out when Angel Reese got whistled for her 2nd foul in what appeared to be a clean swipe at the ball (that's OK because Reese probably could've been whistled for like 12 fouls in this game). But, LSU seemed to get away with a ton of stuff that Iowa did not. And the incompetence tended to favor LSU.
Iowa's center Monika Czinano fouled out with 6+ minutes left despite spending most of the game on the bench. She got whistled for her 3rd foul when Reese rammed her shoulder into her face. And then after her 4th (we never got replays of her 4th or 5th fouls) they gave Caitlin Clark a technical for tossing the ball out of bounds and supposedly saying something. Replays show she didn't say anything. That sent them both to bench in the 3rd right when Iowa had made a great run to cut it to single digits. The juice was returning to the game at that point but that basically ended Iowa's chances.
I mean, I was rooting hard for Iowa, but I really think the officiating ruined the game. That will be the takeaway from this game; not the fact that it was a major moment for women's sports and a chance for the country to see a phenomenal and generational talent, someone who could be a major star and draw for the women's game. But we got a ref show.
Shame on the NCAA. Hopefully they'll do something about it and get full-time refs in here. But we know they won't.
I get the Mulkey hate--I can't stand her for what she did to Griner. But there was a lot of racialized discourse there. The LSU players "mug you." The "refs look like the SEC" and therefore are biased. There was more, but some has been removed, I believe, at this point. So now we can pretend it never existed. But that discourse against LSU started when Michigan played them.
After all my years on the face of this earth...it's definitely as clear as I think it is.
I know how polarizing Mulkey is (I personally wanted SC to win because I saw this coming no matter which team beat Iowa, and I can't STAND Mulkey) and I know how much some folks are just hurt because "America's sweetheart" lost yesterday (their words, not mine).
I can separate all of that out (in addition to many other things).
And leftover, after all of that, there is still more "Two Americas" than you seem to realize...or want to admit. Which isn't surprising, because my years have also taught me that there is always someone who is going to acknowledge it...while rationalizing or chalking it up to the "radical minority" or the "vocal minority" or the "troubled few" or whatever bullshit term is used to push the behavior of many on to the loudest/most extreme/etc.
Oh, I realize it more than you know (I won't point it out in threads about coaching, etc because it doesn't accomplish anything) and don't deny there is a bunch of it here. It's just not the whole package.
I really wanted SC to win as well because I thought they stood a better chance of taking Mulkey out.
LSU Coach behaved like Izzo on steroids.She should have been T'd up several times especially after the 2nd foul on LSU's star in 1st qrt.
This is the most vitriol I’ve seen on this board over a non Michigan game.
It was really a Louisville-Michigan flashback.
Universally hated coach screaming on the court/sideline all game, bad calls all game, best player on bench with bullshit foul trouble, then a signature bad call on the POY to end most of the drama.
Horrible refs and an important game
Name a more iconic duo
SEC and Media bias?
watching in a bar the tech seemed ludicris (and even kriss kross). I have no crush on any women ever but sports sucks when refs fuck up a good game. I was hyped for Iowa and I don't think they got a fair shake. Plus ego sucks in college sports.
No Doubt.
B Real?
In the first quarter, if you breathed on another player it was a foul. They seemed to dial it back in the second quarter, but officiating was a non-factor due to LSU’s lights out shooting. In the second half the officiating was VERY inconsistent. On one play barely touching a player was a foul, and on the next banging into someone was a non-call. Very frustrating to watch.
The tech on Clark when she softly tossed the ball out of frustration was awful. Total ref show and a damn shame. Iowa couldn’t gain any traction in the game because their star players were in foul trouble throughout. LSU was a much deeper team. Credit to LSU for playing a great game. Wish the refs were WAY less of a factor so the game could have been a better overall competition.
I saw LSU play against us, V-Tech and Iowa. They play a very physical game compared to most women's team and I think it difficult for even good officials to call the game. I think they missed a lot of contact but are they really going to call something every time down the floor.
I don't have an answer but I didn't need to watch the game to know the officiating was going to be bad. That said LSU shot incredibly well this afternoon and Caitlin Clark looked like she was showing fatigue from the SC game. I don't think the officiating kept Iowa from winning. I think LSU did.
If I’m a bigwig in women’s CBB, I’m frustrated that officiating played such a dismaying, outsized factor in a game that got so much attention.
I’m also rather gratified that the NCAAW really has achieved mainstream status, because nothing establishes an event as equal to other major national sporting events like the entire sports commentary world focusing on how awful the refs are.
Today was WBB's chance to go mainstream (at least a litfle bit) and it failed spectacularly. Between the horrible officiating, Ms.Jimmy Hart's sideline (read: oncourt) antics and the pathetic game-end gloating, I don't think a lot of first-time viewers went away as fans.
SD - was today’s game an example of sportsmanship you’d show your daughter’s team?
That technical they called on Caitlin Clark is quite possibly the worst technical call I've ever seen in high-level basketball. Particularly given the stakes of the game.
Also regarding two of Clark's other fouls: I'd like to see the arm bar/pushoff called on ball-handlers less in both men's and women's college basketball. If the refs are going to let defenders body the ball-handler, there's going to be some tussling. Don't turn that into a way for defenses to entrap good offensive players into bullshit fouls.
I saw an arm bar push off called in a men's game on Saturday. It's a foul.
My take - there were terrible calls both ways. Extremely quick whistle. First 2 Q's I thought LSU got more really ticky-tack calls against them; 3rd/4th Iowa.
Unfortunately for Iowa, that quick whistle hurt them more because LSU is much deeper.
Clark being in foul trouble was devastating for Iowa; she had to play more tentatively on both ends of the floor, and Iowa really struggled when she sat. LSU put on a remarkable shooting performance - certainly helped by Iowa's foul trouble forcing loose defense.
LSU got away with some moving picks, but IMO both teams were jostling under the rim - and often bigger players get more penalized because they're stronger and fouls bounce off them, while smaller players get tossed around.
One of Clark's offensive fouls was obvious - knocked opponent well away from her. I missed the play when the technical happened so can't offer an opinion.
Both the LSU and Iowa centers got away with elbows to the head - though both were body-fouled as well.
Couple things I'll say about this game.
1. The very quick whistle was in marked contrast to the Iowa-USC game, where they let both teams battle it out. That led to a classic, while this game was a ref-mess.
2. I think beating South Carolina took a lot out of an Iowa team with little depth. Beating two much bigger, deeper teams in a row was just too much for them.
I say this with no dog in the fight. This was the first WBB game I’ve watched all year. I can count on one hand how many I’ve ever watched. I’m not a big basketball fan in general (college or NBA), let alone women’s hoops and obviously I’m not an Iowa fan.
But that was some baddddd officiating on the biggest stage in the sport at a time when they’re receiving more attention and eyeballs than they’ve ever had.
Michigan fans only get to complain about the officiating in OUR games.
I only caught pieces of this game but yeah, officiating seemed off and these are, in theory, the best refs they've got. LSU played well enough to win so it wasn't like they were bailed out by a single bad call but the game was still officiated terribly and ruined what has been a really positive, exciting women's tournament.
Did you watch Iowa vs South Carolina? If you did you should've posted this Friday, also. Refs didn't just start sucking. Plus they weren't going to win anyways.
Let’s be practical. How much money is involved with collegiate athletics? How much media money is there for all the conferences combined? How much money does the NCAA get from the March Madnesses (combined men and women)?
How different are the rules for WNBA play than they are for women’s college hoops? I honestly don’t know.
Who controls what is a fair play and distinguishes it from an infraction? The officials.
Officials should be employees of conferences, or the NCAA - and, they should be evaluated after every game by both teams. The highest “graded” officials should be assigned to the most important games.
Today’s game just reinforced my thoughts about it. And, it’s really pretty basic.. call it the same way, against both teams, for the entire game. I’m not expecting officials to be super-human with eyes in the back of their heads. I AM hoping they would be consistent - for an entire game - and enforce the rules in an equitable manner.
Kim Mulkey and Angel Reese are both piece of shit humans.
Here's ESPN celebrating all the trash-talking Caitlin Clark does. But Angel Reese gets tagged this way for trash-talking Clark. How do you explain the contradiction here? I'm sure it'll be hopelessly convoluted.
Oh my god - what a monster! So she told a girl who was talking shit while down 15 points to shut up (they're friends too and have played on teams together) and she did the John Cena thing one time. And it didn't look like she did it in anyone's face nor was it directed at anyone specifically. And beyond that she's just animated (every player is now) and she gets her teammates and crowd psyched up. So what?
It's crazy you can't see the difference between that and what Reese did. She was literally stalking Clark around the court to make sure she saw her gesture. She literally went out of her way to be obnoxious and unsportsmanlike (also - why isn't that a tech? This occurred during the game while a player was at the line). Then I'm fairly certain she did it again moments later. You know why that doesn't happen in the mens' game? Because they'd get knocked the fuck out.
Fuck that shit, grow the fuck up and go celebrate with your teammates. Instead, you're ruining the end of the biggest game of your life to go taunt someone? Everyone called her out for it but she was defiant and proud of it. But, I'm glad she ruined the best moment of her career by being a brat.
Okay. Here's Clark getting T'd up for taunting the UNI bench.
The idea that Reese was " literally stalking Clark around the court to make sure she saw her gesture" is purely your imagination. Clark was walking by and Reese eased closer and called out to get Clark's attention. Hey, if you're trash-talking someone it's important to make sure they know they're getting trash-talked. That's what Reese gets labeled a p.o.s. for. So, to you, trash-talking when you're winning by 15 is funny and cool, but trash-talking after you win by 20 makes you everything wrong with sports. I never called Clark a monster. She's a great player who talks trash when she's winning--you have to expect getting that back when you lose. Here's Reese explaining this. She's not a monster or a p.o.s. either. She's just handing out a little payback.
So you found...another extremely questionable technical foul call on her? Come on dude. And you also don't know what is being said to her - she probably gets it all game, from every team, all season.
You also missed the point: Clark telling Hailey Van Lith to shut up was in response to trash-talk she was getting from her. I really don't think she should be doing the John Cena thing or whatever because it's not particularly sportsman-like either (again also in response to Hailey Van Lith who seemed to really be bothering her all game) But she didn't say shit to Reese as far as I know. There is stuff she does on the court that I don't think she should do, and I wouldn't do. But its far from obnoxious or over-the-top.
There is, in fact, a major difference. Go watch it - Melik Abdul on Twitter: "Frankly I don't think any of you truly care and this is just another avenue to be mad about something, especially when it comes to an #AngelReese But are we, objectively, stating that these two things are the same? Which player is #CaitlinClark following around? https://t.co/bHfxEkS8Ew" / Twitter
She follows Clark around the court to do it, it's not my imagination. And there are longer clips out there too. It's fucking embarrassing and petty.
There's also an unwritten rule, especially on the mens' side, that the shit-talk is over once the game is in hand- especially the championship. It stops at that point because most players know how painful and hard it is to be on the other side.
Please show me an example of Caitlin Clark rubbing a victory in an opponent's face the way Reese did. There's not a double standard here because it's apples and oranges.
We are getting to that time in sports where technology can make calls more accurate, but this is a game played by humans regulated by humans. That human element is part of the game, but game changing calls are hard to swallow. Not sure what the answer is
Monkey - do you think baseball / softball should go to the “auto analysis” of the strike zone for balls & strikes?
What women’s team sports do you watch?
Anything beside the US women’s World Cup soccer?
College Softball and NWSL.
A2, thanks. The point I was trying to make is - women’s sports - if I can categorize them generally - don’t have the following that men’s sports often do.
I will watch Michigan’s women’s teams play when they are broadcast on BTN, and watch both men and women “live” when they play nearby. So, I try to support Michigan athletics when I can.
This NCAA final seemed to be a very good opportunity to showcase women’s athletics.
I've always wondered why people say "a TON" when not referencing weight.
The biggest issue I had with the officiating was the lack of calling any hand checking on the defense. Everytime an Iowa guard tried to drive, LSU went hands-on, most of the time to their benefit, with no call. Clark even got called for an offensive foul on one of them after pushing off (she did) after she was grabbed on the drive.
First time watching women's basketball?
On the contrary Seth - I watched a ton of Iowa games this year! And we watched a handful last year as well. Admittedly, I really have not watched that much in the past. But Clark is fascinating to watch and we really loved the Hawkeye supporting cast: Czinano, Marshall, Martin, etc. They really made me a fan. I'm steamed about this game but I'm also exctied for next season.
But, I didn't notice the poor officiating until the tournament. My girlfriend, a huge Hawks fan, and I thought the officiating in the Colorado and South Carolina games was pretty terrible. BUt this one just seemed beyond the pale. I watched a lot and don't really recall Czinano or Clark getting in foul trouble that often but they certainly did yesterday.
Vegas doesnt like losing money. They must have went all in on LSU then. I wonder how much money was put down on Iowa?
Its not that WBB refs are bad, but this wasn't a February Big Ten game with 5 other games on the same day.
This was the epitome of the sport and that crew is theory is the best in the game. They never had control of that game.
I would never be a ref, but they could have put a Tech on Mulkey early, for about 10 different things, and then evened it up on the Iowa coach. Say what you want about Scirotto, Green or Carstensen they would have controlled the game.
I really don't understand the woman's game. I know USC and LSU's players were stronger and taller, but seemed in both games they were allowed to push players for boards. Using contact to displace a player is a foul in any part of the court.
Clark had an offensive foul where not only did the defender flop, she flips Clark's hand up in the air and it made it look like a pushoff. It's a shame that interest in the Woman's game has never been higher (mostly due to Caitlin Clark) and the refs have to overshadow the event.
The 5 foul ejection rule is one of the worst in sports. The reffing in this game was horrible, but that wouldn't matter nearly as much if there wasn't a rule that regularly gets people kicked out and even more often has their minutes severely limited for playing the game normally, without doing anything dangerous. This rule needs to change. Maybe committing five fouls was egregious when the rule went into place but the way the game is called now, it's largely arbitrary. What purpose is there behind risking the best players sitting out in the biggest moments of each game?
Am I the only one who feels a gross sense of dissatisfaction that the team that won didn’t have to beat South Carolina? It’s almost like there should be an asterisk next to this title.
The refs made the game unwatchable and I was really looking forward to it. Turned it off after the two ridiculous charge calls on Clark in 2Q. Watching LSU complain was like watching a Duke team full of Tiny Toms.