developing a consistent outside shot could shoot Dickinson up draft boards [Marc-Gregor Campredon]

Midseason Hoops Mailbag, Part Three: The Future Comment Count

Ace February 9th, 2021 at 3:37 PM

Previously: Part One, Part Two

It's time to look into the distant future: April of this calendar year and beyond.

Running It Back, Part One

The selling point for Franz Wagner will have to be the opportunity to win a championship in college while he's still relatively young for an NBA prospect. He's shown more than enough this season for a team in the 12-25 range of the first round to pick him as a wing who should stick in the league a long time because of his offensive skill and defensive versatility. This was ESPN's Jonathan Givony on Wagner's prospects early last month:

A deep NCAA tournament run could easily solidify Wagner as a first-round pick, although it wouldn't be shocking if he decided to run it back for his junior year at Michigan (like his brother did) since he's younger than many freshmen such as Jalen Suggs and Evan Mobley. Michigan is slated to enroll the No. 1 recruiting class in college basketball, and could be viewed as early favorites for the national championship if Wagner (and Dickinson) return to the fold.

He was 30th on their board at that point. He's already moved up to 20th in the mock draft ESPN released last week. The Athletic's Sam Vecenie had Wagner at #36 in his mock draft last month; on his Game Theory podcast a couple weeks ago, Wagner had shot into the lottery. Yes, it'd help his stock to hit more three-pointers, but probably not enough for him to need to head back to school; his excellent marksmanship at the free throw line alleviates a lot of those concerns for NBA scouts.

That said, Wagner isn't a surefire top ten pick or anything, and his relative youth plays to M's advantage—he's not at risk of entering the league in his mid-20s. He fits a coveted role as the rare big wing who should be a plus on both offense and defense, so his stock can only drop so far barring the unexpected, and he can raise his profile by becoming a more consistent outside shooter. I could see Wagner's choice going either way, though I'm increasingly preparing myself for a departure this offseason.

Dickinson should be an easier sell. The value of a traditional center has plummeted in recent years; unless a big man projects as a dominant, switchable defender or a three-point threat, they're unlikely to go in the first round, as teams know they can find solid bigs—even young ones—on the free agent and trade market for relatively cheap.

Dickinson is projected in the early-to-mid second round at the highest and isn't on ESPN latest mock. While he transformed his body before getting to Michigan, he's still relatively paint-bound. Since his foot speed can only improve so much, developing an outside shot—even if it's rudimentary—would go a long way towards getting him late first-round looks. There's also the appeal of working directly with Juwan Howard for another year.

I'm almost always of the mind that players should jump to the NBA as soon as it's plausible if they're looking to operate purely out of self-interest; Dickinson might be an exception, and without any inside info I'd lean towards him being back next season.

[Hit THE JUMP for potential senior returns, four-year recruits, and what M should do with Juwan Howard's contract.]

Running It Back, Part Two


any double seniors pictured here? [Campredon]

I'm guessing a certain amount of each decision depends on how this season finishes out. A great end to a senior year makes it a lot easier to move on, whether these guys want to start playing careers overseas, coaching careers stateside, or life outside of basketball. If we get something resembling last year's sudden cancelation of the season (which thankfully seems unlikely), or an early flameout in the NCAA Tournament, there could be an increased desire to run it back one more time.

I wouldn't say Michigan is bereft at the point even if both seniors depart, though. Frankie Collins is an excellent prospect and I'm very far from ruling out Zeb Jackson as a potential lead guard. Meanwhile, much like Howard patched the point guard hole with Smith before this season, he could do the same with an immediately eligible transfer this coming offseason. There are always mid-major guards like Smith looking to up-transfer and prove they can play at the highest level of college ball, and Howard will be able to point at Smith's success—and the team's—as convincing reasons to come to Ann Arbor.

While I generally prefer to let the natural cycle of college hoops play itself out and hand the reins to young players, my preference is Michigan have a senior lead guard on the roster next season, whether it's one of Smith/Brooks using their free year of eligibility or the team taking a grad transfer as a replacement. Those guys aren't guaranteed to work out as well as Smith—Jaaron Simmons stands out as a recent example—so it's not an automatic fix, but even if it's just a 7th/8th-man type, that can be quite valuable. We've had some glimpses at life without a reliable backup point guard and it's not a fun way to live.

Recruiting The Long Game

Hi Ace,

Who do you see among Juwan’s recruits as having the type of Livers-style upside of being a player who can both draw NBA interest but also contribute at the college level for 4 years? It’s admittedly hard to predict given that guys can desire a paycheck, develop too slow, develop too fast, or transfer before their 4 years are done.

Thanks,
Andrew

Howard has done a great job of mixing potential one-and-done five-stars with four-stars who could stick in the program while still having NBA upside. Collins is a good example as a point guard who doesn't have prototypical size at 6'0-ish and isn't a knockdown shooter yet; he's going to have to develop over a protracted period of time before the NBA gives a serious look. Isaiah Barnes stands outside the top 100 but has the frame and upside to be an NBA wing down the line.

I also love the potential two-and-done types; Wagner and Dickinson fall under this category, Caleb Houstan might end up there, and it's how Matt sees Kobe Bufkin. Those are often the players who end up driving title-caliber teams—think Trey Burke and Nik Stauskas.

Coach For Life


seeing a lot of room to move up the list of top-paid coaches [Campredon]

The short answer is JUMPING UP AND DOWN SCREAMING YES YES A THOUSAND TIMES YES JUST LOOK AT THIS:

The longer answer is that Michigan has an opportunity that's not going to come around again and they need to capitalize on it. How often does a former NBA All-Star who was an All-American for your team before becoming one of the top assistant coaches in the NBA fall into your lap and immediately show high-level schematic chops while landing top-five recruiting classes? Never, usually. Maybe once in a lifetime. This is that once, and this is how you get a coach who becomes an institution.

When the time is right, which should be shortly after this remarkably successful season, Michigan should be falling all over themselves to give Howard whatever he wants to stay for as long as he desires, which is hopefully forever. I hear the athletic department freed up some money from the football budget lately?

Comments

bdneely4

February 9th, 2021 at 3:45 PM ^

Juwan's halfcourt backwards shot and his signature dance is enough for me to award him another mil or two.  It is fun playing with money I don't have! Go Blue!

MGoMort

February 9th, 2021 at 3:53 PM ^

Terrance Williams comes to mind as guy with potential Livers-like upside, albeit perhaps not to the NBA level unless his jumper improves, that could stick around the full four. 

JeepinBen

February 9th, 2021 at 3:54 PM ^

I know Juwan doesn't need the cash, but it's always good to be compensated as one of the best in your field when you're one of the best in your field.

"Revolving lifetime contract that guarantees Juwan is a top 20 paid coach in MBB" sounds good to both parties, right?

Michigan4Life

February 9th, 2021 at 5:41 PM ^

I really think Juwan will coach at Michigan until both of his sons are done with school either graduation or NBA at the very least. After it, who knows. If he has a national title in his resume, I wouldn't be surprised if he wants to make the jump into the NBA. He already has multiple years of experience as an assistant coach and NBA franchises would come calling to hire him.

Richard75

February 10th, 2021 at 11:42 AM ^

Actually, if he has a national title, it's conceivable he *does* stay.

Once you reach the Jay Wright level where you can field a title contender every year, you're really better off staying in college. Granted, one may just prefer the lifestyle and challenge of the NBA. But if you become an institution in college, the pay is on par, and the security is so much better.

chrisu

February 10th, 2021 at 12:08 PM ^

I made this point about Harbaugh's alleged desire to return to the NFL after a few seasons at UM: The college game offers a college coach something that is very, very rare in the pro ranks - lasting legacy/legend. At UM, Harbaugh would be idolized, statued, named on buildings, if winning and success are achieved. This would be true, in my humble opinion, with respect to Juwan as well. He may well be successful in the pro game, but how many coaches are revered long after they've retired? How about college? Maybe I'm biased, but I think either coach, if highly successful, would be revered more in college than the pros.

burtcomma

February 9th, 2021 at 4:36 PM ^

I think the key will be that Coach Howard will be here as long as he is having fun.  The only way he leaves is to go to the NBA, as there is no other college team he will be interested in leaving us to coach.  Coach Howard is exactly what we thought we had gotten with Coach Harbaugh when he was hired.  Who knew?  ?

Watching From Afar

February 9th, 2021 at 5:03 PM ^

Michigan should be falling all over themselves to give Howard whatever he wants to stay for as long as he desires, which is hopefully forever.

The very next sentence is precisely why this statement is far too premature. Similar things were said in 2015/2016 about the very football program that just "freed up some money." Great coaching/scheming and back to back top 8 recruiting classes with 5 stars like Gary, DPJ, and Solomon.

Deserving of a raise? Absolutely. Let's not get out over our skis here.

Watching From Afar

February 9th, 2021 at 8:39 PM ^

Never remotely implied they were the same in background/personality or that their respective sports are similar.

I was saying we saw/were told from insiders (and bloggers) that Harbaugh was energetic and his coaching chops were 2nd to none, his assistants were great, the attitude on the team and around the program was different and so on. Remember the whole winning team in practice ran extra sprints while the losing team had to watch while their teammates got better? He climbed a tree to land a top 100 CB from California! He would have beaten OSU and Meyer if JOK didn't suck (probably true)! 2015-2018 pre-OSU was as high of highs as the basketball team has been up to this point.

Now it's he doesn't know what he's doing. He can't hire good assistant coaches. Doesn't want to work hard recruiting and grabs fliers who he can't coach up. We over estimated his abilities, he sucks, fire him.

Hell, we've seen it with Gattis. First half of 2019 he looks terrible. "Why did we hire this guy?" 2nd half of the season and it's "They out schemed Bama! Patterson just can't throw." 2020 was a complete and utter dud. Did he forget how to call plays or did we all overreact to every game the prior year and in reality he isn't as good/bad as his best/worst?

Howard has 1 1/2 seasons of head coaching experience now with very experienced assistant coaches (what happened to the offense after Fisch left? - what if Martelli takes a HC somewhere?) and a pretty good core leftover from JB. Should he be paid more than Pitino and ~10 other Big Ten coaches? Yes. Renegotiate the hell out of the contract at the end of this season to reward him for his success. Should the athletic department trip over itself to throw everything at him in hopes he never leaves? I don't know how anyone who should be taken seriously could say that after 45 games.

It's bipolar how far people swing from "His halftime adjustments have been crazy good. Lifetime contract!" to "He is unorganized and doesn't know how to do X. I wish we could fire him." There's a cavernous middle between those two poles and a lot of us should find it before we claim one or the other after 2 good seasons or 2 potentially bad ones. You start to lose some credibility when you say a guy is great for a couple of years and project a bunch of things and then he struggles and you change your tune to say he sucks. No idea how Howard will be viewed in 4 years, but there's no need to crown him today and grovel at his feet. He's been very, very good. Just say that.

Watching From Afar

February 10th, 2021 at 10:36 AM ^

Sure. I didn't mean to compare him to Fisch when it came to duties. More that Fisch was probably the best assistant coach when Harbaugh signed (or Mattison or Zordich) and once he left part of the program struggled and his replacements (Drevno and Pep) were downgrades. Side note, I don't think Pep was all that terrible given what we've seen since (coaching wise - not a great recruiter). 2018 offense was 25th in S&P and at least they could run the ball. The hot new signing of Gattis hasn't actually improved the offense in the long run.

But yeah, Martelli and Saddi have been around the coaching ranks/the program for a while. They have provided great stability over the course of the last couple of years with 1000 things changing. They deserve all the credit they've received and more. Finding replacements for them if/when they leave will be a challenge and we don't truly know what their impact is until we see how their replacements do.

njvictor

February 9th, 2021 at 5:24 PM ^

I think another selling point for Franz might be getting his jump shot fixed as well. If he could shoot ~37% from 3 then he's all of the sudden a late lottery pick

TrueBlue2003

February 9th, 2021 at 5:47 PM ^

Yes, but 1) that's a medium "if" 2) also comes with the risk of injury / stock falling and 3) he's almost certainly a mid-first rounder right now so moving into the late lottery is probably only a few spots.

I think there's a chance he comes back but it'd probably be more because he wants to play college for another year.  He's not needing to provide for a family so the urgency isn't what it is for some guys.

TrueBlue2003

February 9th, 2021 at 5:55 PM ^

While I think Dickinson comes back, especially now that he's come back down to earth, there are still some things in favor of him leaving: 1) he's old for his grade so his age makes coming back risky and 2) he's so effective as a college big that he likely still wouldn't have the opportunity to show he can shoot is there at Michigan, and hence what's the benefit to coming back? I wonder if he'd have to get Juwan to commit to letting him fire it up.  And even if he does, that's a risk because then he'd have to prove he can hit it.  As it stands, he's a good FT shooter for a big so it might be better for his draft position that the NBA likely projects him to be an adequate 3 pt shooter. 

Bob_Timberlake

February 9th, 2021 at 6:02 PM ^

Wonder if Wagner could get any run at SG if he returned. We’ll be short on experience there and otherwise Franz and Caleb Houstan would probably be needing lots of minutes at the three.

LabattsBleu

February 9th, 2021 at 9:01 PM ^

Honestly, I think JH's original contract was fair, considering he never was a head coach and no one knew whether he'd be able to recruit. I think everyone was hopeful, but until he's doing it, you don't know.

It would be a good idea to offer him an extension imo. Based on his performance thus far, there's going to be a lot more NBA teams reaching out to him very soon

My Name is LEGIONS

February 9th, 2021 at 9:58 PM ^

Still reminds me of Mike Francesa going on air here in NY saying how it was a "terrible" hire... when I heard it I was nervous, thinking he knew more than I on it...and I tried calling into the station but couldn't get through...

My Name is LEGIONS

February 9th, 2021 at 9:56 PM ^

A few key mentions...

I wouldn't underestimate Wagner's desire to return and actually participate in March Madness and everything that goes with it.   He has gotten hosed so far, two years in a row.

We need both Smith and Brooks back, period.

rposly

February 10th, 2021 at 11:52 AM ^

I wonder how much COVID will impact the decisions of Wagner, Smith/Brooks and, to a lesser extent, Dickinson.  They're still just college kids, and this has been such a lame season in many ways.  I imagine Wagner longs for a season with actual fans, the excitement and energy they bring, a "normal" campus life -- he may come back just to get that again.  

On the flip side, he may look into the near future and just see more of the same.  It's reasonable to assume campus life will not return to "normal" for the next couple of years, and fans may still not be allowed (at least in full) next season.  So maybe that sours their appetite for returning.  

ribby

February 10th, 2021 at 11:53 AM ^

I don't follow the bottom half teams in the PAC-12 so I had never heard of this guy before, but it is both amusing that there is a basketball coach named Wayne Tinkle and shocking that he makes more than Juwan.

jmblue

February 10th, 2021 at 12:25 PM ^

Another selling point for Franz might be the chance to have a more normal year of college before he moves on.  He's only had about 1.5 semesters in which he's been able to really experience college life the way his brother did.