Dug out
No surprise. It'll be interesting to see if he commits elsewhere right away or take a little bit of a wait and see attitude until a new coach is named.
After the academic suspension stuff, I'm guessing he's gone regardless.
Great. Now we need 11 new players.
Well, since Dug was only available like 60% of the time, maybe we only have to replace 6.6 players?
March 19th, 2024 at 12:15 AM ^
He's not coming back. Michigan is a train wreck. Best to just let those who want to go leave and rebuild.
I listened to a few podcasts during the season where this kinda seemed to be a forgone conclusion.
Might need an operator’s Manuel to correctly run the athletic department
lotta people here want to take out an ad
I see you sliding that oxymoron in there. Well done Pete well done.
I would normally agree but in this case more turnover might be better. The team needs a new attitude and new leadership. It will be a rough year next year, but it may speed up the process to get better.
As long as we get the right coach. I'm not really as big on Medved as Brian. He seems to have a similar resume to Holtmann when he was at Butler. Pretty good but never great and never bad. If he comes here, I don't think we'd win the Big Ten but I also don't think we'd be terrible.
Only if you’re looking at results. The guy has pretty much invented his own offense which is closer to JB than Holtmann. Regardless, Howard inherited a goldmine and whoever’s next gets a crater.
While I do think that we need to get a coach appointed quickly (and if Warde does not already have a short list and feelers out to all of them given the trajectory of this season he is more inept than even his critics believe), keeping the current roster is not the reason. There is not a single player on this roster aside from Tarris that I would really want to see back. I think that the entire culture of the team is so broken that I wouldn't mind seeing a complete reset with all new players free from the stink of this past season or two. I have to imagine that any new coach coming in can get 10 transfers of players who can work hard on defense and rebounding, learn to play within a system, play as a team and show effort.
As to Dug specifically, after his suspension, his departure was a foregone conclusion, regardless of who is coaching.
I have to imagine that any new coach coming in can get 10 transfers of players who can work hard on defense and rebounding, learn to play within a system, play as a team and show effort.
Might be a bit more difficult if you're limited to primarily freshman and grads.
It's the great Michigan academics double standard again. If an athlete were to attend Michigan as a freshman with SAT/ACT scores well below what the average student needs for admission, that's OK if the kid goes into one of Michigan's academic program. But if a kid transfers into the same program from other universities, sorry, your credits from another school are worthless.
If you were an up and coming coach, would you accept the Michigan job with one hand tied behind your back due to the academic roadblock to say nothing about NIL money?
Successful use of the portal can rebuild program quickly but not if the deck is stacked against you as it is at Michigan. This program will be starting at ground zero.
Caleb Love went to Arizona. It isn't Michigan but it isn't some community college. I think it is far more likely that he took a look under the hood and got out of dodge, or was given a better offer by Arizona.
Michigan is a really good academic institution but it has never allegedly been an impediment to on the court success until now.
But to your larger point, I don't really see a path back to Beilein-level success. I think the Howard hire was an attempt to catch lightning in a bottle to keep that level of success going and it probably did delay the inevitable a bit.
Michigan is going to need an angle. It is not going to be able to recruit the kind of talent it needs to consistently compete nationally or even in conference. Wisconsin has formed an identity that allows them to compete above their talent level. Iowa also at times. Michigan needs to hire a system, not just a coach.
I think we are at a huge disadvantage if the metric is recruiting 5 star talent or having an easy transfer process to navigate. But I don't think that is a huge impediment to overall program success. I think maybe we agree because you say we need to hire a system not a coach. That is the key, IMO. There are probably dozens of teams every year that win 20+ games and perform well in the tournament without a single 5 star player on their team. Grab a coach with a vision and the plan to achieve that vision. And then most importantly, recruit and seek out the correct players to execute the vision. If you build that culture and work on player development you can turn 3 and 4 star players into players that are more productive at the college level than 5 stars.
I agree with your comment. My thought is - "Where do the five stars go?" Let's see - Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, North Carolina, maybe UConn - those are the first ones that come to mind.
The reference point I think of is - what would you rather have - a true freshman five star - or junior / senior "mid four star" who's been in the program for three or more years? I'm very content with the upperclassman who was a four star out of high school.
So they go to the same places they’ve always gone. I think the big question is, do we really think our academic standards for players is higher than Duke? Maybe but not likely. If Duke didn’t recruit so well, I bet they would have similar problems in the portal. I have no doubt their NIL for recruits is crazy though.
lol, Michigan has admit plenty of Football and Basketball players below the high school admission standards. It's a non-issue as long as they're eligible for NCAA sports.
The credit transfer is an issue though
What does this last year team look like with Love and Shannon? What does the season prior look like with Shannon?
The roster was a mess, but that was not all on Juwan. Dug and Love pretty damn good PG rotation.
Not that it matters now, but a coach has to think about those things when he is expected to win at a high level, but does not have a level playing field (court)
The Shannon and Love argument is tired. It’s Juwan and his staffs job to know who can transfer in and who can’t. There are people on their staff who are literally in charge of figuring this out before they even approach admissions. They couldn’t even keep Dug eligible, you think Love or Shannon would’ve been any different? As far as I’m concerned, Dug being on academic probation is Juwans fault too. When was the last time a major college bball player had to sit out? Again, GA’s and other coaches monitor these guys’ grades to prevent this from happening. It was just a really poorly run program.
If an athlete were to attend Michigan as a freshman with SAT/ACT scores well below what the average student needs for admission, that's OK - and admissions would let them in.
But if a kid transfers into the same program from other universities, admissions still let's him in.
...but the department/college he is transferring to gets to decide on credits - no admissions involvement at all (and nothing the AD or university President has any power over).
He was always gone, he's a Juwan guy...the other coaches didn't even want him as a priority Commit, Juwan was the reason he was at Michigan.
He'll be missed, but we absolutely should not rush the search to keep players from an 8 win team. That is an asinine approach.
Get the right person.
Really liked to watch Dug as he was fun and passionate and played above his rankings for sure. His defense was not good, at all. If he averaged 16 a game I bet he gave up easily 18 a game from the player he was guarding. Fun player though and with the right coaching could be a much better all around player. Wish him the best.
March 19th, 2024 at 12:13 PM ^
Wont miss him, he's barely a rotation player on any other tean in the conference.
Dont need a home run hire. Just need a mediocre coach to get us back in the .500 ballpark, stabilize the situation and then go for the homerun hire when we're not one of the worst teams in the country anymore.
Going to be hard to find a coach with the tourney going on.
I wouldn't be surprised with 100% roster turnover.
I'd rather they get the right hire than a quick hire. A right and quick hire would be best. But given our AD, I'm not expecting either.
I see what you did there. But I don't think it matters. I think nearly all players with eligibility on basketball team are going to transfer and I don't think the new hire really matters.
We are more than one or two seasons away from being competitive regardless of who is hired. The basketball program is in shambles. The new coach is going to almost literally be starting from scratch. Like, two or three players on the roster.
Isn't basketball like football where anyone can transfer without having to sit a year? If so, a good hire could pull a Deion and accumulate players quickly.
Deion didnt even pull a Deion. For all those that checked out in September, just like the media, the guy finished 1-8 in his last 9 games.
You can turn around a basketball team quickly. Pitino had St. John’s on the verge of the tournament. OSU looked like a dumpster fire and a coaching change had them near a berth. Good coaching does wonders. Half the team will be gone so a few solid players and we’ll be rolling.
I immediately thought of St. John's as counterexample to taking years to turn around a roster (ironically they were one of Michigan's few basketball wins this season). I seem to remember from the game against them that Pitino rolled in something like 11 transfers/new players (i.e. basically nobody from previous season).
I knew we had to expect it, but damn, it's astonishing how quickly this thing cratered to absolute zero so quickly. Of course, with the triple whammy of one-and-done talents, immediate transfers and NIL, this will always be looming over every program. At some point we'll see a team go from natty to an armagedon-level cratering like this within three years.
There's no use pining for the old days when these kids were indentured servants, but I pine for the old days, sort of.
From this team…not many guys worth keeping
Let’s give the next coach a real challenge; build a roster around Tschetter.
I actually think that Cheddar could be a valuable special situations player if he had threats around him (he's the 4th or 5th option 3 point shooter) for times when whoever he has to cover doesn't pose a huge challenge. (The other team's big men get into foul trouble and the backup isn't too threatening.)
His 3 point shot was under utilized.... A devout shame Duncan didn't score in the final and goes on to be among the best 3 pt scorers in NBA history.
No we don’t (have to react quickly to stop bleeding). We have to rebuild whole staff and whole roster. After that season no one is expendable. Be great to keep Tarris, but even with him we are starting from scratch. Watching Dug’s last ten games, you can’t say with a straight face he is either elite or dripping with effort when adversity hits. Love these kids because they chose Michigan but we’ll be fine when we get the right program leader in the door. Until then, let anyone walk who wants to walk. Literally be hard to do worse than what just happened.
I'm willing to endure a year of serious pain in year 1 (like beilein) to get the right coach.
Hear you, but also think its fine. This whole program needs a big ol reset button hit, from coaches, players and recruits.
It will be bumpy for a bit, but in long run, it will pay off.
Um, any coach good enough to coach their team to the tournament kind of has the actual tournament itself to deal with right now.
Nah, no need to act quickly. It's a total rebuild at this point.
Whoever comes in would have to re-recruit anyone on the current team and any HS recruits. Juwan left behind a complete dumpster fire, and with transfers as common as they are now, we should expect to see an exodus. This won't be turned around in 1 off-season, it's going to be a multi-year rebuild.
That said, transfer portal giveth and taketh, so the right coach might be able to put together a mid-level B1G squad / tournament bubble type team by year 2.
March 19th, 2024 at 12:17 PM ^
No need to act quickly but no need to delay either. We aren't going to get a great coach for next season, our team is a total dumpster fire.
We just need a mediocre "character" guy to stabilize the program, get us back to .500ish and then go for the homerun hire when it wouldn't be insanity for a great coach to come here.
We NEEDED Manuel to act quickly. The SS Quick Acting sailed during the Sanderson incident.
Dug was gone no matter what.
March 18th, 2024 at 10:01 PM ^
Yeah need to hire a coach before they play their first NCAA tourney game!!!!
fully support Dug doing what is best for Dug, but the pic with the loyalty tat is a little ironic. I get his coach is out and all that.
At least it doesn't say scholar