x's and o's question O-line
Wondering how you feel about the O-line in the new offense. Have some folks telling me its gonna be a rough transition---I'm not an expert but I feel like they're wrong secondary to the talent/experience. Should I be concerned??? Any info-analysis from those of you who know the x's and o's is appreciated.
Only be concerned about Army. Not the OL. They'll be fine.
They’ll be better than last year and they’re still gonna run the ball. If you think Michigan is gonna line up 5 wide every set you’re mistaken. Watch Gattis’s video he says they’re still going to run down hill
Yup, no reason we can't have a paradigm like what Clemson and Oklahoma had last year. Both teams ran for about 250 yards/game. In Clemson's case, that was about the same as the number of passing yards/game.
I don't know how a team can have a great passing game if the defense they face doesn't fear the run. Even the Rams with Kurt Warner had Marshall Faulk.
Not an expert but I would be very surprised if the OL, along with the WR group, aren't the biggest strengths on the team
The offensive line coach hasn't changed and I haven't heard anything from anyone who knows anything about a radical departure from what they've done in the past schematically. I don't see why you'd need to know about "x's and o's" to deduce that they should be fine.
Seconded. The only X's and O's that could change are the pass-protection schemes. The ground game should be run just like it was last year.
If anything, I think pass pro will become easier due to faster route development. Pep had those guys defending the QB for a looooooooong time during some of those obvious passing plays.
Most of the teams Gattis has been a part of has run outside zone quite a bit, which you could argue are guys aren't very suited for and weren't very good when we tried. I don't think that Gattis will do much of that as a result, I don't think his system relies on that and he can emphasize plays that work to the OL's strengths.
"The ground game should be run just like it was last year."
You were happy with the run game last year?
Considering how much everyone was expecting us to run on every play, I'd say our running game was pretty good. It was strong enough to generate 144 rushing yards with our lead back against the #1 run defense in the country.
It looked pretty good considering it was paired up with Pep's shitty passing offense.
Tempo might be the biggest adjustment - these guys have to get used to moving fast when Gattis wants to go no huddle and push the tempo. It sounds like Warinner will just be building on and tweaking last year’s stuff to fit Gattis’ scheme. Wait and see I guess but I’d be surprised if the lineman were learning that much new stuff vs applying what they did last year that fits
Everything leaking from the submarine says otherwise, so take that FWIW.
Will the offense really be that different other than more RPO's(hopefully), no long-developing pass plays(thank Gattis) and a quicker pace overall? If anything it sounds like the change will make it easier on the OL.
Well I would add operating mostly out of the shotgun to your list but otherwise I agree.
We operated out of the shotgun all of last year. Am I misreading your post?
You can run power out of shotgun...ask rich rod
Rich Rod????
Ask Urban Meyer. Any big game and he ran his QB 20 + times.
I was talking more the concept poet DSS zone...rich rod staple as WV was power run out of spread the Slaton, Schmitt , White days
No, it won't be a rough transition. Gattis isn't the kind of OC who demands that his OL run one specific bread-and-butter play to build on. Warinner will have them running zone at a high level, and Gattis will build layers on top of it. Plus, all our starting OL have learned different schemes in recent seasons and know how to adjust.
They'll need to learn how to play in an up-tempo offense, but that's significantly easier to do than learning a new scheme (it mostly boils down to conditioning).
I think they should be fine but there will be more snaps. Hopefully all the hype about big mike dropping weight means his conditioning will be up to snuff for it.
I thought that recently one of the coaches reported that little Mikey actually weighed in at 370-but that he also had the lowest body fat of any of the OLs. Said coach also stated that when Mr. Onwenu encountered a DL the DL got moved backward.
Try this link. One issue running RPOs is linemen downfield when there is a pass. Blocking is the same except the line will not necessarily know if it is a run or a pass until it happens.
Brian has mentioned multiple times on the WTKA Round Table that the switch to an RPO-focused scheme only changes things for the QB. Everyone else's (OL's, RB's, WR's) responsibilities on a given play stay the same.
You should not expect any difficult transition for anyone but Shea and Dylan. We know Shea has tons of experience running RPOs in high school and at Ole Miss, so the biggest thing to watch will be how Dylan adjusts to it, but I'm not worried.
What transition?
5 returning starters.
Oline blocking hasn't changed dramatically that I've read.
New play calling should be less predictable, hopefully minimizing the weakness in pass blocking at tackles. Plus speed in space concept will get the ball out much more quickly than waiting for outside / downfield routes.
Even if the offense ends up passing more, I think the unpredictability will help the Oline hold up, even against top100 Dline talent.
Whoever is telling you that doesn't know jack about football. What the OL does is barely changing at all!!
It's not going to be a transition at all. Warinner is still the OL coach. The protections will be the same. The run plays (which the OL coach designs) will be the same. The only reason for nervousness is right tackle, but even there I think we have two good candidates for the position.
For the OL there is very little transition at all. This is much more consistent than the previous two seasons, which were transitions from Drev to Drev/Frey, back to Drev, and then to Warinner. Now it's still Warinner, with a seasoned center making the calls.
This is the most optimistic I've been about the OL in a long time.
“Should I be concerned???”
If you have to ask, the answer is usually yes.
They might not be the ideal line for blocking outside zone, but that's not necessity with the offense we're running. Gattis mentioned yesterday they'd still be very much a downhill running team and despite the changes for the skill positions, I don't think it'll be that different for the OL this year. If anything, it takes pressure off of them by spreading out the defense. At any rate, they're all upper classmen with better than average athleticism and coached by a competent OL coach. We'll be fine there.
$100 bucks says that the folks telling you it's going to be a rough transition are Ohio State and Michigan State fans.
I am no expert, but it just seems like all indications from the coach pressers is that the OL is really, really good in executing the new offense. We will see in 23 days.
Gattis runs a pro-spread, so the run plays are more like power in basic concept. Coach Ed spent years developing zone blocking schemes in support of a pro-spread offense when he was at OSU under Meyer. So I think we should be fine and pretty well developed to make that transition to the zone blocking to support the new offense.
Nope. They were running this stuff last year with Ed Warinner. The "new offense" has a lot more to do with how they backfield functions, and how the pass game fits with the run game.
Anyway this OL has all run a great diversity of stuff. Maybe there will be more outside zone, which they've never been great at. But other than that, they ran IZ and split zone and arc zone as their base for the most difficult part of last season, and ran Down G the first half of it, and up until 2017 they were primarily a Power-O team. As secondary options, they've run a ton of pin & pull and counter trey. That's most of the boxes right there. The pass protections are exactly the same, and if anything should be easier because they don't have to last as long.
Thanks for the insights as always, Seth. also you maaaay want to step in on the Ross thread a couple posts down on the board.
I dunno man .... it's pretty hilarious to see numerous people losing their minds over something as ridiculous as a different opinion. I mean, yea, it has no business being on this blog, but damn it's funny sometimes.
Ed Warinner has coached offensive line with this same kind of offense in the past.
Gattis runs primarily IZ, with some changeups that include Power, Counter, Outside Zone, Pin and Pull, and Iso.
Michigan last year was primarily IZ, with some changeups that include Power, Counter, Outside Zone, Pin and Pull, and Iso.
There will be some small changes (there would have been even if the whole staff remained the same). They may run a little more OZ, they may run Counter OT more often whereas they ran Counter OH in the past (which changes the assignments of 2 people to take on roles they already take on at other times), they may change some pin and pull rules, but all these things are minor. They may take out Down G. The protections are effectively the same on pass downs (though they may favor certain protections than they did last year based on the playbook).
Anyone concern trolling about major changes to the OL is doing just that. 95% of the stuff won't change significantly from last year. This isn't going from Lloyd Carr nothing but stretch to Rich Rod spread OZ or Stanford Gap stuff. This is people looking for an excuse to say "it's going to be a huge transition".
SC - what if anything would you see as the biggest adjustments? mainly the qbs knowing the offense and making decisions? Are there other positions that may be under heavier transition? Seems like other than knowing the playbook the skill guys should be fine?
There's going to be differences because there are always differences (even if who staffs stay the same).
Primary differences are going to be some of the routes run by the receivers, especially how they run their intermediate/short routes and feel for where to "sit" vs zone depending on on the pass structure. But the basic pass structure isn't totally different (they aren't going to an Air Raid for instance).
For the QBs, they have the biggest transition. Much more reads. Much more on their plates. Getting the ball out on time is essential to this offense (which was really minimized in last year's O, as much as it can be). A little more run game element perhaps.
Some differences for the RBs. Some different aiming points in the run game, slightly different responsibilities in the pass game.
TEs have a pretty decent transition as well. Even some of their run game responsibilities change because of the RPO aspect. They'll sprinkle in a lot of the same stuff they did last year, but probably are tasked with doing the hard stuff less often, but tasked with doing more stuff overall.
Our OL was top 2-3 in the Big Ten last year and returns 4 All Big players and will be better at the 5th RT.
It’s not a major scheme change for the line. The line is going to damn good.
Yeah, I'm not getting the worry over Ed Warinner.
I looked up Ohio Sts numbers since Ed Warinner left two years ago. The run game has fallen off a cliff. It could be a real Achilles heel for them this year.
Ohio states pass pro has been better since Warriner left . Outside of late 2014 his lines got blown up in pass pro . I’m an osu fan and the difference between our offensive lines in the game was noticeable . Passing > running imo . We will see . I bet our OL is the best in the big ten . :)
And until proven otherwise here is the foundation of my confidence in this 2019 team. No position group has more control of a football game than the OL-they are the great equalizer. And that Michigan has excellent skill players to operate behind this OL surely bodes well for this season.
X: See someone
O: Hit someone
Go Blue!
Returning 4 starters, all 4 made preseason watchlists. Learning from one of the best teachers in the game for the second year in a row who’s now in an offensive style/scheme he’s extremely comfortable with.
What kind of stupid mother fuckers do you talk to about football?
I think we'll have definitive proof that Drevno wasn't cutting it.
Edit: perhaps this may have been clear by the end of last season.
If anything, the OL should benefit by not having to hold blocks as long waiting for the routes to develop 30 yards downfield.
I think if anything the pass protection might be easier, schematically, on the line this year. The offense might pass more, but last year's offense liked long developing routes and deep-drop play actions and 2 man route combinations. All of those things can be useful sometimes, but they're rough on pass protection.
It looks like this year's offense will be a lot faster, both in terms of tempo and in terms of passing concepts. I think we're going to see a lot more quick developing stuff, ball coming out faster, and the line having to pass protect for less time.
There will be a transition, specifically at the tackle spots. The tackles in a spread scheme get 1 on 1 a lot more often than in traditional offenses. But I think the interior is going to wall defenses off and create a nice pocket to step up in.
Beyond that, O linemen learning the new terminology could make for a few hiccups, but the responsibilities could be a little different and be an issue. There's a lot to blocking schemes and it has to be second nature to linemen to be effective.
O Line will be better by year's end, but could have a few hiccups along the way.
August 11th, 2019 at 7:33 AM ^
smooth transition
August 11th, 2019 at 7:34 AM ^
lots of good players