This will be the third time that MSU influences how a college game is played
I expect the reviews are going to be much more rigid and would expect that you are going to hear "the ruling on the field stands." more often than we used to.
2001 Clockgate brought in an official time keeper.
2015 - "roughing the snapper" was called with more frequency after they didn't call it on MSU.
2021 - there will be particular emphasis from this point on to not "re-officiate" the play.
Notice this trend when you watch games in the future to see if I am right.
That's all, neg me if you want. One last lament before I am forced to move on with my life and try to let go of the result this weekend.
November 2nd, 2021 at 11:34 AM ^
I haven't seen (maybe noticed) roughing the snapper being called any more frequently. Do you have data or is this a "feelings" post?
November 2nd, 2021 at 11:48 AM ^
Between the 2016 OSU game, the expose holding data from a few years back, and now this game, I'm convinced either the B1G officials or the conference itself has an agenda against either Harbaugh or Michigan.
November 2nd, 2021 at 12:21 PM ^
Didn't the 2016 OSU ref retire completely remorseless and actually kind of laughed at the idea of screwing Us and Harbaugh over?
Harbaugh is hated around the country. Otherwise Paul Finebaum wouldn't have a job.
November 2nd, 2021 at 12:25 PM ^
Finebaum's had his job since before Harbaugh put on his first pleated khakis.
November 2nd, 2021 at 1:34 PM ^
I'm convinced either the B1G officials or the conference itself has an agenda against either Harbaugh or Michigan.
The asswipe who signaled that USC's Charles White had scored his phantom touchdown in the 1979 Rose Bowl was a Big Ten referee.
November 2nd, 2021 at 1:53 PM ^
At some point you have to look at outright corruption by the Big Ten. It has gotten to a point where all the things going against Michigan defy odds and percentages. I am very much in the make plays camp and good teams find a way to win. However, Michigan made a game changing play for a defensive TD and it was taken away. I feel like people are moving the goal posts.
November 2nd, 2021 at 3:13 PM ^
I agree with you 100%. The “just make plays” argument is so easy to say and makes everybody feel better. However, the truth of the matter is that Michigan has a much smaller margin for error before all other critical game factors are considered. We do not have the ability to recover as easily from dropping a swing pass or fumbling a handoff because we know that there are two or three catastrophic calls that are going to hit us for sure during the game.
November 2nd, 2021 at 11:54 AM ^
I would say it is 4 games. You forgot to mention the 1990 Desmond Howard blatently tackled on the 2 point conversion game.
November 2nd, 2021 at 12:10 PM ^
That was just bullshit. ;)
What I meant was with these three examples, the way the game is officiated changed. All because of Sparty gaining an advantage they should not have had.
November 2nd, 2021 at 11:56 AM ^
Sadly, it will be too late and still pales in comparison to the times we've been bit. You could probably add the Desmond PI play to how pass interference was enforced....?
On the flip side, I doubt the NCAA does anything that really helps us:
- They invented the Harbaugh rule to flag coaches for sideline behavior and yet have almost never enforced it except on Harbaugh.
- Harbaugh got creative with some plays and they started enforcing "intent to decieve"
- Satellite camps were a thing...then they weren't
- The jersey number sharing issue that has changed
November 2nd, 2021 at 12:00 PM ^
Replay sucks. Not just for us - but everywhere. They take too long and then even VERY obvious calls are wrong. You bring in the game commentators and the replay expert and usually at least once per game, they are in disagreement with the replay official.
This seems to be across football and especially in the B1G! Replay sucks, and holding and pass interference are out of control. We had players practically getting their jerseys ripped off without a holding call being made. And I say this having watched Penn State and OSU and the same thing happened to the OSU defensive line. I don't think Penn State had a single holding call and there were multiple instances just like us where a defensive lineman was getting tackled or his jersey was pulled 2 feet away from his body by holding. If the refs are somehow missing this, they need not be refs any longer.
Same with pass interference. If the defensive back manages to turn his head to find the ball he has license to mug the receiver. Tugging on the jersey, pinning and arm so the receiver can't reach for the ball, pushing and shoving - it's a joke.
B1G refs are a joke.
November 2nd, 2021 at 12:07 PM ^
The saddest part of this is replay was supposed to help get rid of really bad calls like the infamous Charles White touchdown and yet it still causes as much trouble today as it helps. Back in the old days the Thorne fumble would have been a TD and the game would have gone on. With the crappy refs and the way too long games due to commercials it's getting harder to watch the games every week.
November 2nd, 2021 at 12:12 PM ^
Here's the reality. Refs sucks at reffing.
They suck in college. They suck in the pros. They suck in football, basketball, baseball, hockey.
They suck because they are trying to do a job that is basically impossible and that even the best person is going to make mistakes on.
The real problem I have is with the replay. There is no possible way you can look at that video and say that it is obvious to overturn the call. If they are going to have replay, it has to be used correctly, and right now it is not.
Getting calls wrong on the field is going to happen. Replay screw-ups should not.
November 2nd, 2021 at 1:01 PM ^
I would like to believe that your points would explain everything and they are correct. I would be less angry about things if that is all that it was. But it does not explain the constant and drastic variance in one direction. How do all close reviews go one way. In one review it is pretty clear runner does not have the ball when he runs across the goal line, but we do not have conclusive proof, so the call stands. In the next review, the gut feel is that the shin is down but we have no video proof so we reverse the call. Again, as in 2016 OSU, all PI calls work against Michigan.
Sorry, too much here to simply attribute to incompetence.
November 2nd, 2021 at 5:00 PM ^
No, it's bullshit and that is my problem with the replay calls. They applied one standard to reviews of the MSU touchdown and the Michigan touchdown.
Both reviews included video evidence that MAYBE the play was different. Walker pretty clearly looked down before the ball crossed the plain. But for sure? No it wasn't for sure. The Michigan TD--is it possible the QB had regained control before his shin went down? Maybe, but that is pretty unlikely.
Both calls should have stood. But I'm pretty sure this was just incompetence and not refs throwing the game.
But don't get me going on that 2016 OSU game. Of all the Michigan games I've watched in my life, that is the 2nd most likely to have been thrown by the officials. So many calls were just utter horseshit. But the most likely is still the 1989-90 Rose Bowl where the Big Ten officials of the split Big 10-Pac 10 crew literally reported that the Pac 10 officials were joking about how happy they were to have screwed over Bo on the phantom holding call during the fake punt. The Pac 10 refs hated Bo and I'm 100% convinced they threw that game intentionally.
November 2nd, 2021 at 12:15 PM ^
I remember when Michigan was given a first down after the sticks brought out proved they did not. Jadeveon Clowney overturned the rule on the field.
November 2nd, 2021 at 12:18 PM ^
That was because the Ref was getting shit from Spurrier. The ref was going to remeasure until Spurrier said something that really pissed him off and gave Michigan the first down. Almost like "you're not going to talk to me like that." First down!
November 2nd, 2021 at 12:16 PM ^
I think the reason that State fans are so (extra) obnoxious after this win is that they know why they won; they can't admit it to themselves; and they know which direction these two programs are heading.
They know that we're building a monster, and that their rent-a-team got more breaks than Kurtis Blow. Take any of the terrible calls back and we win that game. State knows that. We're returning a monster next year and they're returning a handful of peanut shells. The refs might have gotten us, but karma will handle State. In the meantime, we are the Greatest University in the World - with a great future for the program.
November 2nd, 2021 at 12:25 PM ^
this is all a stretch. This was a horrible call, but there are horrible calls everywhere every week.
You're proposing that because of this call that we believe was atrocious, there's going to be a shift to "edge a little towards not changing as many"?
I'm angry too, but we had plenty of chances to win that game. I'm sure msu fans have their own list of complaints too. Lets move on to Indiana and hope we get some emotional reprieve in 4 weeks.
November 2nd, 2021 at 7:40 PM ^
No, I'm planting the seed in your mind. Watch the games going forward and notice, you're going to hear "the ruling on the field stands." -which is their lingo for saying not enough evidence to overturn.
And I'm providing historical precedent.
Of course we had plenty of chances to win that game. They needed extraordinary help from the officials (a 1/128 probability event occurred) and perfectly executed comebacks at home for them to come back and barely beat us.
MSU may have their complaints but none of their complaints created changes in how the game is officiated.
November 2nd, 2021 at 12:27 PM ^
Is this official for 2021? Link? (This is LONG overdue, especially for the B1G!)
November 2nd, 2021 at 12:39 PM ^
Gus, you missed one imo: Blatant Pass interference vs Desmond Howard in 1990.
I'm so sick of national media saying this rivalry has a series of "controversial endings"
Um, sure if by controversial you mean Michigan gets shafted at literally the most high leverage times of critical games against Staee.
Please, someone remind me of a critical call that blatantly was wrong and went against MSU in the highest leverage moment ever vs M.
November 2nd, 2021 at 12:41 PM ^
Is this based on something you actually heard? Piss poor officiating happens everywhere (especially the B1G). This bad call won't change anything.
November 2nd, 2021 at 12:48 PM ^
I know bad officiating is everywhere, but it is debatable whether or not instant replay has reduced controversy. I can't accept that this is the best we can do with a replay official. It's like these people don't know the definition of the word "incontrovertible."
November 2nd, 2021 at 1:00 PM ^
Replay has done a great job of removing the obviously blown calls that ruined games in the past.
It has also introduced the bullshit frame-parsing where no one can really tell what happened for sure but one replay official thinks he sees something that he really doesn't, so he overturns the call.
If the replay official is "I think maybe this might be what happened" the call on the field should just stand. It should only be where there is super clear proof that the call is wrong.
BTW I'm about 95% sure Walker did not get into the end zone on his TD run. But the replay was not conclusive so they stuck with the call on the field. That was the RIGHT way to use replay even though Walker probably was an inch short. The problem is that when replay was inconclusive and the call on the field was for MSU, they stuck with the call on the field. When the replay was inconclusive and the call on the field was for Michigan, they overturned it.
November 2nd, 2021 at 12:55 PM ^
2015 - "roughing the snapper" was called with more frequency after they didn't call it on MSU.
That would be because as long as you contact someone else before the snapper - it's not roughing.. and the dude that ran over the snapper made contact with the guard first.
November 2nd, 2021 at 3:07 PM ^
Nope the rule says the snapper is allowed 1 second to recover before he can be hit.
November 2nd, 2021 at 12:56 PM ^
I’ve never been a fan of replay at all in any sport. If we have to do it, do it like the NFL does it, only modified. Give the head coach a red flag and let him make a decision as to whether he wants to take the chance to lose a timeout. Limit it to one time per half. I understand that some games would still have missed calls but that’s part of any game. I used to always coach kids to play better than the officials officiate. Currently we are slowing the games down, taking away momentum, and accommodating television commercial space. Most importantly let’s evaluate officials better and make them more accurate and accountable.
Granted, I watch more B1G games than others, but I see more bad officiating from our league than others. We need to get them better at what they do.
November 2nd, 2021 at 1:02 PM ^
I completely disagree. I hate the bullshit "oh we all know that call is wrong but they don't have any timeouts so they can't challenge rule". That is just stupid.
Replay should fix all obviously blown calls, period. If you want to give the coach challenges for very close calls then fine, but you shouldn't have to challenge obviously blown calls.
Expecting refs to get better is a fools errand. They have sucked forever and will continue to suck forever. Anytime you have something subjective it is going to be impossible to have consistency.
November 2nd, 2021 at 2:57 PM ^
Agreed. For all the various flaws of replay, replay has saved thousands upon thousands of errors across every sport. Think about tennis, for example. There is nearly a "replayable" decision AT LEAST once a game (a game within tennis). There could be 25-50 close calls per set. The Hawk Eye system is essentially a "replay" going all the time. Think about how many missed calls there were before this system was implemented.
Yes, things can improve. I have no idea how they will improve sport to sport, but at least in football, you could have a booth of 5 people (or however many) watching the game from some central location, and as soon as they see something, they can just tell the refs on the fly to change the call rather than having the ref go look at a single tiny screen for 2 minutes. "Hey lead official, his foot was out of bounds, not a catch." I also think there needs to be some system of time, where if the official takes two looks at it, cannot see enough, stop, and the call stands.
November 2nd, 2021 at 5:15 PM ^
I agree here for the most part. I’m not sure how we could ever have a system in football that is anything like tennis. The tennis “eye thing” is good because it’s fast. If we can remember how replay started in the B1G … it was limited and fast. Currently, it’s used too much and takes too long.
November 2nd, 2021 at 10:17 PM ^
I’m always intrigued by the possibility of what technology could provide the sport. Location, force, proximity, etc. I’m sure there would be some limitations that would impact what it could determine within the margin of error necessary, but would love the ability to time sync a video to readings that allows you to say “the ball did not cross the goal line before the time stamp where we see the runner is down.”
November 2nd, 2021 at 3:28 PM ^
NHL and the Premier League do a good job with replay, imho.
November 2nd, 2021 at 1:57 PM ^
The officiating had at least two pivotal, atrociously-called moments (PI on the last drive and overturning the strip 6). That's frustrating, but let's be honest, that's the kind of nonsense a little brother needs to win. Expect it.
Michigan left so many Goddamned points on the board through self-inflicted mistakes. JJ's fumbles were both unforced. Blake drops a TD-looking pass with no one within a few yards of him. Haskin's had another sure-looking TD called back because the left side of the line flinched. Andrel Anthony's hold prevented Michigan from a 1st and goal from within the 10.
I disagree with some of Brian's analysis about the team being tight because look at the bigger picture. Great game in super-hostile environments (Wisco and Nebraska), and Nebraska was close for a bit with even WORSE officiating.
November 2nd, 2021 at 2:59 PM ^
Bad officiating during live action is an entirely different animal than a replay booth official conjuring evidence that no other human being on earth sees to change a call.
November 3rd, 2021 at 1:16 PM ^
If this were the other football during a match in any part of South America, that official would be in some form of witness protection.
November 2nd, 2021 at 2:20 PM ^
We need to have a spreadsheet made of all the excuses we make. It would be easier to copy and paste them after we lose games.
November 2nd, 2021 at 3:04 PM ^
Are rule changes/enforcements built on excuses?
November 2nd, 2021 at 4:12 PM ^
Whining about them sure are.
November 2nd, 2021 at 7:45 PM ^
not really
November 2nd, 2021 at 4:29 PM ^
Would be useful for those who do not want to think or frame a coherent argument for sure.
November 2nd, 2021 at 2:53 PM ^
I can agree with the first two, but not the one that happened on Saturday.
Emphasis on not "re-officiating" a play is such a vague sentiment- it happens probably 10 times in every single college game across America. It just feels tougher for us because it was a huge, local, rivalry game. I doubt the powers-that-be will gather during the offseason and ask the refs to let plays stand more often because of what happened in this particular game.
November 2nd, 2021 at 2:56 PM ^
Who is the replay booth official and what is his background???
There should be transparency. Warde needs to man up on this.
Beyond the obvious blatant wrong calls the 0-6 reviews with each potentially being a game ender is sickening.
The replay official is 100% bias or corrupt.
November 2nd, 2021 at 4:43 PM ^
Somebody was corrupt up there, there really isn't a good explanation otherwise.
Michigan won that fucking game. The booth stole it back, twice.
November 2nd, 2021 at 3:05 PM ^
He's not wrong
November 2nd, 2021 at 3:27 PM ^
Fuck Sparty and B1G Refs. What a complete hose job. How does Michigan ever recover from this bias that is left over from the Bo years? Lloyd was a likable guy and Harbaugh has toned his shit way down.
November 2nd, 2021 at 3:50 PM ^
People hate Michigan. Bias or worse corruption.
The only way to solve this is to push for transparency and shine a light on it.
November 2nd, 2021 at 5:34 PM ^
The results won't change, but accountability and an explanation is needed. The Big Ten will do what they do best and that is nothing of course.
Also, the discussion between the ref and the replay official needs to be public or at the very least coaches should be able to listen in on what is being discussed. Harbaugh being told "his shin was down" is unacceptable.
November 2nd, 2021 at 5:39 PM ^
Be careful what you wish for. I think referees generally lean toward "fumble" on the field knowing that replay can "fix" it. I think this is generally a good thing - better to rule it a fumble and let play continue rather than blow a play dead and deny the recovering team a legit chance to advance the ball. That might change if officials know the booth is loathe to overturn a fumble call.
BPONE forces me to believe that officiating will change to retroactively fix this particular bad call in a way that bites Michigan in the ass later.