November 17th, 2020 at 12:54 PM ^
I'd almost rather let Warinner take over as interim, he has some experience with it. Not championship level experience, but experience nonetheless.
November 17th, 2020 at 1:15 PM ^
Well, it's not like they're playing at a championship level now, so...
But also, Warriner was promoted to OC at OSU and promptly failed. It may be that his organization talent lies with the OL? Which is fine - still a great career!
November 17th, 2020 at 1:37 PM ^
Exactly. I'm honestly just looking at the floor, which, even though it's low, I can at least see it with him. Gattis taking over as HC could explode in any direction, and maybe that's worth the risk.
November 17th, 2020 at 12:55 PM ^
I agree. Let him show us what he can do. Otherwise, get the money cannon ready. Which is more likely IMO; I firmly believe Warde won’t fire Harbaugh and that he will finish out his contract next year. Barring a stellar season in ‘21, he won’t be extended.
November 17th, 2020 at 1:22 PM ^
That is the easiest negative recruiting pitch ever. "Harbaugh hasn't been extended = he isn't gonna stay, you really wanna go to that school?"
Warde would be shooting the program in the foot, as if it's not already in an unstable situation. I really hope that is not the case. I see one of two things happening, with the latter the most likely in my mind.
- They get him to resign after this year.
- They basically do what ND made Kelly do (as others have pointed out here recently)
- Extend his contract (for optics and recruiting purposes, but have a low buyout). Tell him to clean house and give him one more go at it in 2021 to see if he can right the ship - if not, buy him out and move on.
November 17th, 2020 at 12:47 PM ^
So far he's been a disappointment and below average offensive coordinator. Him for HC is a No from me
November 17th, 2020 at 12:48 PM ^
I must be honest, I am having a really tough time thinking that we should move on from Harbaugh. Especially with the names that are popping up as possible replacements. Am I pissed and do I think these players deserve better? Absolutely, they deserve better outcomes. And nobody wants that more than him Harbaugh himself. I do have concerns about where he “is” mentally speaking though. He just seems “off” And all the theories about why are obviously out there, but one thing we do know is that he can coach.
I really worry about what everybody is saying......if Harbaugh can’t do it, who can?
thats all......thanks for listening!
November 17th, 2020 at 2:09 PM ^
I genuinely like Harbaugh, always have, but this statement, "one thing we do know is that he can coach", at least at Michigan, is debatable. That loss to MSU was unforgivable, absolutely brutal. I have no idea why he either can't get his kids ready or can't put together a good game plan (or both) against good teams and rivals...but it's a problem that needs to be solved. Unfortunately, keeping him around is no longer a viable solution.
November 17th, 2020 at 12:50 PM ^
Why not share this, uh, erm... insight on one of the many, Many, MANY coaching search threads instead of creating a new one?
November 17th, 2020 at 12:50 PM ^
I don't want Fickell, and it's just that whiny face of his.
November 17th, 2020 at 1:09 PM ^
That and he is the only Head Coach that couldn't beat Michigan with an OSU roster in the last 20 years.
November 17th, 2020 at 1:20 PM ^
Actually Tressel did lose to UM in 2003.
November 17th, 2020 at 1:31 PM ^
November 17th, 2020 at 8:29 PM ^
Sorry being factually correct is so upsetting to you.
November 18th, 2020 at 8:34 AM ^
Not upsetting, just hard to remember wins over OSU in my lifetime. So, I guess my .gif should have had the "/S" tag.
Like, JLAW is saying "Sure, Tressel lost to Michigan. We all remember THAT, right?" Truthfully, I don't remember it.
8.5.2
November 17th, 2020 at 12:52 PM ^
Because he doesn't know ju jitsu
November 17th, 2020 at 12:55 PM ^
Fire Harbaugh mid-season and give him a shot as the interim guy.
November 17th, 2020 at 1:12 PM ^
I don't like when teams do that.
You typically see a short-term bounce, where the players rally around the interim guy for the rest of the season, and then they hold the AD hostage and threaten to transfer if he's not promoted. And then a guy who wouldn't have been considered otherwise ends up with the head job permanently (and frequently ends up failing). See: Brian Ellerbe, Bill Stewart, Bobby Williams.
It only tends to work out when the program is successful and the new coach just has to keep things on autopilot (Steve Fisher, Lloyd Carr).
November 17th, 2020 at 1:22 PM ^
This can't be stated strong enough. First off, what has Gattis shown in his season and a half here that makes it seem like he's the definitive answer? If it is his offense, it's not very good. If it's all Harbaugh's, we're essentially elevating a position coach to be the head coach. Now that's what Dabo did and for all we know he's the second coming of Dabo, but we have zero outward facing evidence that he could be the answer.
Secondly is exactly what you said, elevating an interim guy who's just not ready for the job and doing this exact same thing in 2025.
November 17th, 2020 at 12:57 PM ^
Gattis is Harbaughs Doug Nussmeier. Alabama staffer, Too little to late, Ocoord kiss of death.
Actually I think Gattis has been worse.
November 17th, 2020 at 12:57 PM ^
Because 1) Michigan can probably do better than a guy who has only been a coordinator for two (underwhelming) seasons
and
2) There's not much point in firing the head coach for underperformance and then promoting a member of that underperforming staff.
November 17th, 2020 at 12:58 PM ^
Why not go with Jay, that way we have a harbaugh. And we could hire a running back coach
November 17th, 2020 at 1:02 PM ^
Because IMO Gattis has been this biggest disappointment on the staff. Speed in space? Aren't we recruiting speed? Are you watching our fly/post patterns of all these 5'10" WR we have recruited? THEY CANT EVEN GET SEPARATION ON 2* CB's THEY ARE FACING!!!!!
Our offense is a complete fucking disaster and would be way better off with the old Manball Harbaugh package. Don Brown has been saving this team the last 5 years, and finally he is having an off year and we all want to throw him to the wolves.
The biggest problem has been our damn offense people!!!!
November 17th, 2020 at 1:21 PM ^
I agree with the second half of your post. The first, though, I'll disagree and say that Harbaugh has kept Gattis from running his offense. Too much evidence from past years where the offense has done the same things, only Gattis wasn't here. Common denominator = Harbaugh.
But yeah, Brown's defense has saved Harbaugh's shitty offense for the last 4 years. Finally, in a world where Nick Saban says defense no longer wins games, brown needs help from the offense - help that will never arrive as long as the 'Harbaughffense' remains in play.
I'd be happy to jettison Harbaugh and keep both Gattis and Brown.
November 17th, 2020 at 2:11 PM ^
Gattis might turn it around but this needs to be the end of the line for Brown.
College football is be more offensive today, yes, but you just can't give up 62 and 56 points to OSU two years running (with better talent than we have now, no less). I have absolutely no confidence in him ever holding a Day-led OSU offense in check. (By "in check," I'm talking holding them to about 40 points.)
And now, when we have lesser talent in the secondary, we're getting destroyed every week. That MSU performance is just unfathomable at this point. The same Sparty that went for big play after big play against us scored seven total points in its next two games.
It's time. At this point, what is he bringing to the table? He's not much of a recruiter, he's apparently unable to get somewhat lesser talent to perform, and he's around retirement age anyway . . . what's the argument for keeping him?
November 17th, 2020 at 2:42 PM ^
Not going to argue your points - they are all valid! However, I will say that the OSU debacles (and PSU in '17) were personnel deficiencies - not enough talent to keep up all over the field, which is a recruiting issue. That said, he has steadfastly failed in crootin' CB's and DT's, both of which have to be unforgiveable at this point.
I won't actively call for him to get axed because I still think he's a good coordinator with a scheme that can shut down any offense in the business - if it has the players. But I won't oppose his firing, either, because he should have closed that personnel gap by now.
November 17th, 2020 at 2:55 PM ^
I agree with you 100 percent. Don Brown issues is not coaching it is that Michigan recruited slow corners to play man to man coverage. Most of Wisconsin big gains in the passing game were WR running across the field and Michigan CB just not being fast enough to stay with the WR. the next hat to drop is the lack of DT recruiting, I have never heard of a program going two cycles without picking up a single DT.
November 17th, 2020 at 4:31 PM ^
Don Brown issues is not coaching it is that Michigan recruited slow corners to play man to man coverage.
If Don Brown can only appear competent when he has NFL-level corners, then yeah, it is a coaching issue.
Iowa and Indiana held MSU to seven points combined. They went up and down the field against us. Do we really have worse talent than them?
November 18th, 2020 at 12:31 AM ^
If you want to play man and you have choice between a tall slow CB or a short fast CB you pick short and fast because you need that speed to play man to man.
Jourdan Lewis David Long, Lavert Hill, and Brandon Watson had 40 times of 4.54, 4.45, 4.41, and 4.52. Two of them were not drafted and one has never started an NFL game yet were successful in man to man due to their speed.
Green and Gray are both 4.6 kind of guys which you can win with but just not playing man to man.
November 17th, 2020 at 1:02 PM ^
I think the better question is, if we end up hiring a defensive minded coach (Venables, Fickell) would you want that coach to keep Gattis so that we have continuity with our current players and current recruits?
November 17th, 2020 at 1:25 PM ^
1000% NO.
If you want to shake things up then shake things up. Don't half measure it by keeping a coordinator.
Anybody who's anybody who takes this job is going to demand the right to hire their own staff.
November 17th, 2020 at 1:03 PM ^
I think its a good idea. I feel like when the offense goes into sludgefart mode that's more on Harbaugh interference than Gattis' gameplan. I think Gattis can coach - if he had a good season this year he was probably going to be a candidate for an HC position somewhere else. So, why not take a chance on him now? He would probably be one of the youngest black coaches in the game which I imagine can't hurt recruiting-wise. Plus, it would give the program some continuity/stability and might cut down the amount of transfers and de-commits, which I think is a major factor in coaching changes; throwing everything out and starting over is not always the best move.
November 17th, 2020 at 1:07 PM ^
The offense looks like shit and seniors are making repeated mistakes in Year 2 of his reign. If that's any indication on Gattis' oiganizational and managerial skills, you'd have to say 'no'.
November 17th, 2020 at 1:13 PM ^
I'm on team Kiffin. Let's just get fucking nuts. Get him a jet. A winged helmet painted stretch Escalade. Put an all-gold Turnover Throne with a diamond studded Turnover Chalice full of Turnover Sizzurp.
November 17th, 2020 at 1:21 PM ^
I’ll only agree to Kiffin if he and Layla reconcile and get remarried.
November 17th, 2020 at 1:32 PM ^
If we're going the fucking nuts route, I'd rather have Urban Meyer. He's a better coach and less annoying.
Also, I don't think I could stand it if Kiffin fails at Michigan *and* we have to put up with Kiffin being Kiffin. I wouldn't wish that on any fan base in the country.
Well, other than Ohio State.
November 17th, 2020 at 1:38 PM ^
Hiring Urban Meyer isn't nuts. That's the most logical hire for any team in the country not named Alabama or Clemson. That's the equivalent of signing LeBron in free agency. It's not a matter of "if" you do it, it's a matter of will he even consider your team.
November 17th, 2020 at 1:17 PM ^
Shit, if we’re considering Gattis as HC, why not just go with Don Brown instead and really make sure the dumpster fire that is UM football reaches epic new heights?
November 17th, 2020 at 1:18 PM ^
I actually don't think this is a terrible idea IF Warde has information that these last 3 game plans have been Harbaugh overriding Gattis and not Gattis going soft. If Gattis still wants to run the quarterback, attack the field vertically with the passing game, and not be so predictable with the play calling, I think he showed enough creativity in a six game stretch or so at the end of last season to prove he can score some points. The bonus is he can clearly recruit on the offensive side of the ball and we'd maintain a very good offensive recruiting class. Then go get Partridge on defense and suddenly we can recruit with anybody. That's all assuming that Harbaugh is the one who's been controlling the last few games offensively though.
November 17th, 2020 at 1:49 PM ^
There are two possibilities:
1) Gattis has been running his offense, which is putrid, at best, and provides no reason or rationale of why he should be in line for a promotion to HC
2) Harbaugh has overruled him every step of the way and forced him to use specific personnel packages or run specific plays, in which case Gattis has never been more than a co-offensive coordinator and has still done nothing to indicate he has enough experience or has been successful enough to warrant a promotion to HC
November 17th, 2020 at 1:21 PM ^
I really don't think it matters at this point. I don't think Harbaugh failing here is a Harbaugh problem. I think its a Michigan problem at this point.
In other words, go ahead and hire whoever you want. I don't think our end result changes all that much.
November 17th, 2020 at 1:26 PM ^
I'll grant you that 'Michigan Man' has ingrained an arrogance that permeates the entire athletic department. But that doesn't keep you from winning football games - it keeps you from getting really good coaches. But that aside, can you explain what about 'Michigan' is a problem that causes football games to be lost, despite the coaching staff?
November 17th, 2020 at 1:25 PM ^
Because he’s completely unproven as an OC and especially HC. If he did well as an interim coach here if Harbaugh got fired now then things would be different of course.
November 17th, 2020 at 1:25 PM ^
I'm in the minority but I like Gattis. I don't think he is being allowed to do what he was brought in to do. It is different than the Nussmeier situation, where Saban wanted him gone. Saban wanted to keep Gattis. Additionally, he can recruit.
I don't think I would want him as my head coach but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't curious what he would do if given all the control. Most of the names being thrown around don't get me excited.
November 17th, 2020 at 1:25 PM ^
I wouldn’t promote one SOB from this coaching staff.
November 17th, 2020 at 1:33 PM ^
I went back and watched a fair amount of the Minnesota game and the offensive game plan wasn't that much different than it is now. We were still lining up Mason and 2 tight ends a lot. We were fortunate to have short field position because of their bad kickoffs, Haskins running one inside the 10, a bad idea for them to go for it on 4th down and a pick 6 by Jeter.
The biggest takeaway I saw difference wise we had Mason coming out of the backfield some, even got a td out of it and a lot of motion from the slot receivers. Milton's inability to consistently pass more than 10 yards accurately has shown every other team the key to defending is to have all 11 within 7 yards of the los. We had running lanes against Minny because they weren't stacking the box like everyone is now. I'm sorry but a fb and multiple tight ends aren't exactly speed in space, especially with an erratic qb.
One of the passes Milton hits is the slant route to the middle of the field to Roman Wilson. If we are gonna use FB's and TE's let's use them as RPO over the middle and out to the flat. Where are the speed lineups of Wilson, Corum, Jackson, Henning and Sainristil at together on the field? This looks like Gattis mixed with what Harbaugh really wants to run mashed together in one big cluster flip
November 17th, 2020 at 1:38 PM ^
Agreed, can't be any worse!!. This team is headed to a worst showing than the worst RR, or Hoke teams... the 3-9 RR squad of 2008. For the record Hoke had a 5-7 team in 2014. Hard to imagine our savior JH is a failure too.
November 17th, 2020 at 1:39 PM ^
The offense is offensive. No rhyme or reason to it. RB rotation doesn't make sense, no downfield passing game, and a QB that can't read a defense. Yeah, the coach that put that product on the field should be promoted to HC. Right.
November 17th, 2020 at 1:40 PM ^
Do you think JH has no hands whatsoever in the Offense? (remember he was a QB). I would be interested in hearing from Gattis directly once JH is gone.