Where do you rank Devin Bush in your all time greats?
Was thinking today about Devin Bush , a guy at work is a Steelers fan and asked me my thoughts, and it got me thinking where I put him on my all time Michigan football players list. I think I'm putting him in my top 5 along with Woodson, Wheatley, Desmond, and Hart.
What do you think??
Been watching Michigan for 30 years, he’d be my first choice middle linebacker
1) Woodson
2) Howard
Everyone is playing for a distant third. Bush was a fucking man here, and the best LB who came through here in a long time. He talked the talk against Sparty. And he walked the walk. But he didn’t beat OSU. Didn’t win the Big Ten, win a Rose Bowl, a national title, and so on. Not necessarily his fault, but results are results.
Woodson and Howard each delivered against their biggest rival. And in Woodson’s case, he delivered on the biggest possible stage in college football.
"... didn't beat OSU ..."
OMFG. In what sense, and when, did Bush not deliver?
You qualified it a bit later, but it's still ridiculous. I felt the same way when people criticized Mike Hart for being "0-4 against OSU."
It's a team sport.
You’ve got your criteria, pal. I’ve got mine. I don’t think it’s ridiculous to say everyone else is playing for a distant third behind Howard and Woodson. Bush is an amazing football player. I will never dispute that. And those losses to OSU are not solely his fault. The man did what he could. But you are judged at Michigan, ultimately, by what you do against OSU. And his record against them is 0-3.
That’s a ding against his all time rankings here, in my book. History only cares about the final result. Did you win, or did you lose? Gardner may have played a game worthy of the gods against OSU in 2013. And no one outside Michigan fandom remembers or cares. Why? Because he still lost. Not saying it’s right, but that’s the way it is.
I agree with him. 0-for against OSU is a major strike against them. Life's not fair man.
A lot of us here played sports. I would never, ever have let my teams lose against their biggest rival. Not once. We never did. You're right - the teams are as good as their leaders.
Say what you want, but Henne, Long and Hart's biggest win was probably a Capital One bowl game.
Your counterpoint is that if you were any of those guys you just wouldn't have let the team lose to OSU? That's it? It's somehow Henne's fault that the defense gave up 42 points in 2006 after the offence put up 39 points in Columbus? Jake Long's fault that the defense couldn't hold in 2005? It's fine if you have your own way of judging people, but saying if they were better leaders they would have beaten OSU every time is ridiculous. Does that mean that people on the 2011 team are better than that group because they beat a down OSU team at home?
This is basically the Dan Marino vs Trent Dilfer conversation and I just don't understand the other viewpoint still.
Honestly, you're losing sight of the original discussion. Hart is nowhere near a list of five greatest Michigan Football players ever.
This is about a mythical 'Hall of Fame' for a college team not a statistics contest. As you all have illustrated so wonderfully, all of Hart's yards won him a noteworthy Bowl Game in Lloyd's last game.
In fact, you used a great example that furthers my point - Dan Marino. One of the greatest to ever do it if all you ever care about is stats. If you play to win championships though, Marino is off the board.
In the top 50. Where exactly? Not top 10. But very good player.
Not sure if Devin is in my top 5 but he is probably the best linebacker I've ever seen at Michigan.
As a linebacker #1 for me. I believe he is an absolute stud and will be very much missed next year as far as all time I’m not sure but I don’t have hart in my top 5. Gotta think about that one but that maybe. Because I have Woodson as my numbers 1,2,3,4, and 5 best Michigan player of all time
Step above Ian Gold, I loved that guy and he reminded me of him. Jarrett Irons is still my guy.
You’re fucking high
I'm too young to talk about all time greats. But dude played with his hair on fire, and always popped when watching the defense. Then he went out and ran a fucking 4.41! And was traded up for and drafted top 10 by a team known for draft evaluation and front 7 players. He's one of my all time favorite players to have watched.
I had been thinking about this throughout the season. I am certain that he’s my favorite Wolverine since at least Denard.
Gut-feel top 10:
1 (tie). Hart, Woodson
3. Wheatley
4. Bush Jr.
5. Denard
6. Irons
7. Howard
8. Steele
9. Winovich
10. Biakabatuka
Dammit I forgot Mo Hurst
I don't know, putting Bush up against higher profile players like Desmond Howard or Charles Woodson is a bit unfair, you're never going to get in the Top 5 when you're competing in that crowd. Now is Devin Bush one of the Top 5 linebackers that Michigan's ever had, you can definitely make that argument; you could even argue that he might be one of the Top 5 defensive players we've ever had. That would make for a more interesting discussion.
Woah, tire screech moment.
Mike Hart in your top 5 UM Hall of Fame? Is that a different list than who your favorite players are? I don't know about that. We are definitely not the same age.
He was good - no doubt - but Mike Hart's biggest wins here were against MSU and some bowl games.
I'd also take Robinson over Hart. Robinson beat OSU as a starting quarterback. Hart, Henne, Long never did (and Henne actually talked about that). Denard may not be in my top 5 HOF players, but absolutely not Mike Hart.
Yeah OSU was an absolute disaster the one year we actually beat them. They finished 6-7 while we won a BCS game.
OSU was supposedly a disaster this year too.
Are you comparing the 6-7 OSU team with the team that just won the Big Ten title last year? Come on.
No. I think it's over your head. I was making a sarcastic remark about how narratives that people push are silly.
Whoa what?
Take a look at Hart's stats please...only 3 fumbles in his career... AGAIN ONLY THREE; two of which came in the last bowl game. So besides that game he only fumbled once; that pigskin was literally attached to his gut via some surgical means! Hell, since them most of our RB's average 1 fumble a game (being facetious).
Also, most yards as a Frosh RB 1,455
In his Michigan career, Hart rushed 1,015 times for 5,040 yards; both marks are school records. His 41 career rushing touchdowns are third-best in Michigan annals. Hart's 28 career games with at least 100 yards rushing and 5 games with at least 200 yards rushing are each the most in Michigan history. Hart lost three fumbles in his college career, two of which came in his last game as a Wolverine in the 2008 Capital One Bowl. In that game, Hart also passed the 5,000 yard rushing mark for his career, becoming only the fourth player in Big Ten history to do so.
HART = One of the best in Michigan history, if not the best RB; if he would have been healthy in his sophomore year, and completely healthy in his Junior, he would have destroyed ALL Michigan records for an RB.
We feel very, very differently. No one said he wasn't a good running back. Without needing to pause I'd still take Wheatley and Biakabatuka over him for a 'Hall of Fame' hypothetical selection. They produced in bigger games, won bigger games, and left bigger footprints on the program.
Fumbles may be the last thing I consider when thinking about ranking players in a Michigan Football Hall of Fame.
UM rushing record holder:
- Most career yards (5,040) - Hart
- Most career 100+ yard games (28) - Hart
- Most career 200+ yard games (5) - Hart
Mike Hart's production was the best in Michigan history at RB. My #2 RB would be Ron Johnson with A-Train at #3. However, Wheatley and Biakabatuka each had an outstanding season. Chris Perry should be in the top 5 RB discussion as well.
I don't know why you're responding to me. Personally I don't really care much about running back yards, especially since they all play in completely different eras with different linemen.
Ah yes... thus your love of Denard Robinson and Devin Gardner.. the butter-finger twins. Both were great kids, don't get me wrong, and both helped Michigan through very dark times... but neither of them would hold a candle to some of the elite players we've had.
Touchdown Timmy I agree with, Wheatley, I agree with... but I'd still put Hart and Morris above both.
Sorry bra... turnovers are big in my book... you DON'T give up that pigskin; I must be a "Bo" holdover
Marmot, the reason Mongo is responding is because he's pointing out your flawed logic... and there's a LOT! Hart broke many school records, and though "THE TEAM" may not have won some important games, he "carried" in a Barry Sanders kinda way.
Probably the best linebacker I’ve seen here, and I’ve seen some good ones.
If you narrow it down to LBs, I'd put Bush on the same list as Sword, Irons, Gold, Harris, Simpkins, and Cannavino.For today's game, I would probably start Bush with Gold and Harris.
I can honestly say he was the most exciting player I've ever seen at Michigan. Woodson and Desmond were a little before my time. Denard was great, but he was also very frustrating at times.
Suggestion... go back and watch Sir Charles play. Specifically against MSU and OSU, the man was ON FIRE!
I think you may be suffering from some recency bias.
Outside top 20. There are so many to consider even if you only go back 30 years. I can think that there would be 20 better just during the "Bo" years
All-time greats? Or last 30 years? Or personal faves?
I'm reading the thread and watching goalposts shift all over the place.
think about the Heisman & Maxwell winners, the unanimous all-Americans, the 3 (or 4) year starters... and try to shrug off any recency bias. He's not top-20 all-time (unless you are only talking about "I really liked him"
Think about OL alone... Hutch, Elliott, Long, Dierdorf, Jansen... he's already outside the top-5. Then consider Wheatley, ATrain, Hart, & Perry, 3 Heisman winners, a couple of QBs who beat OSU, won the Rose Bowl, and earned a Natty.
Top-5 Defensive players of all time? Possibly (Woodson, Graham, Law, Hall would be my top 4... with Woodley, Irons, Marlin Jackson, Messner, Anderson all in the mix with Bush for that 5th spot)
Top-5 LB of all time? Absolutely.
How many lines on a standard legal pad?
Oh... I'd say Bush would be somewhere on page five or six.
Since I have been paying attention (about 1980), he is arguably a top 5 LB. Harris, Morrison, Irons, Gold, Anderson, Foote, Woodley, Graham, and any I may be neglecting are stiff competition. Overall top 5? Not with the likes of Chuck, AC, #21, Harmon and an assortment of college and/or NFL HOFers to choose from. That being said, he is a wonderful player and will be sorely missed this fall.
Going to show my age, but based upon UM players I have watched these would be my top 10 highest impact / best players (in order):
- Charles Woodson (DB)
- Desmond Howard (WR)
- Rick Leach (QB)
- Mike Hart (RB)
- Anthony Carter (WR)
- LaMarr Woodley (LB)
- Jabrill Peppers (SS/V)
- Jake Long (LT)
- Dave Brown (DB)
- Denard Robinson (ATH)
Bush would definitely be in my top 25.
Peppers... yeah, damn how quickly we forget. My only issue with Peppers is that I felt he was holding back at times.
The problem with a lot of these lists, and I think it shows a lot of the "TRUE" Michigan fans... is that they don't know the history/past of the program. Even though I'm only 43 I was a fan since day 1 after I was born at the University Hospital, and my father was a grad.
I've gone back and watched every game since the 70's, it's IMPOSSIBLE to leave out people like AC or Jamie Morris, Leach etc. I'd even be somewhat inclined to put Henne in there... also Brady, even though he really didn't blossom until after college.
Since 1990
Tier One:
1. Woodson
2. Desmond Howard
3. Steve Hutchinson
4. Braylon Edwards
5. Jake Long
Tier 2
6. Mo Hurst
7. Brandon Graham
8. Taylor Lewan
9. Leon Hall
10. Chris Perry
11. Devin Bush
12. Tyrone Wheatley
13. Jabrill Peppers
14. David Terrell
15. Ty Law
16. Marlin Jackson
Tier 3
17. Lamarr Woodley
18. Chase Winovich
19. Jon Jansen
20. Rashan Gary
21. Mike Hart
22. Tim Biakabatuka
23. Anthony Thomas
24. Alan Branch
25. Jourdan Lewis
A lot of great names in this list... thanks for the memories.