What's up with Roy Roundtree?
October 3rd, 2011 at 11:19 AM ^
It's the move from the slot, in my opinion. He's not fast enough or big enough to play an outside spot.
That and, until this past Saturday, Denard hasn't been exactly spectacular throwing the ball.
October 3rd, 2011 at 11:25 AM ^
He is a great route runner but he isn't going to break away from cornerbacks. Last year he was wide open because of the scheme.
Unfortunately, he is also dropping a few balls like he did to end last year. Hemingway and the emergence of Gallon make Roundtree the #3 option (heck, maybe the #5 option if you consider Koger and Smith) and we haven't been throwing the ball much.
Of course, he did reel in the biggest catch of the year, and there is much more football to be played. Roundtree is a big asset and will make some plays before the year is out.
October 3rd, 2011 at 11:20 AM ^
the only rational response i can think of would be to....
October 3rd, 2011 at 11:22 AM ^
Every coaching change has casualties. RR (NTRR) is not an outside receiver, but he is playing one on TV.
I think we'll hear from him before the season is out, though, especially if Borges feels like he's found the right cocktail of passes for Denard, which certainly seemed to be the case on Saturday.
October 3rd, 2011 at 2:49 PM ^
I think Gary Gray would argue that we have heard from Roy already.
October 3rd, 2011 at 11:22 AM ^
Roundtree has been about as sure-handed this year as he was at the end of last year (not very). I don't blame Denard for not targeting him that much. Just like a RB who fumbles shouldn't get touches, either should receivers who can't catch.
I like Roundtree, but if he keeps dropping easy ball, I don't think we should throw his way.
October 3rd, 2011 at 3:18 PM ^
This wasn't really the case for Braylon. He was so frustrating that he would make some crazy catches, but then just drop the easy ones. It's still haunting him in the NFL. But I know Roy is not Braylon.
October 3rd, 2011 at 11:23 AM ^
Might have something to do with balls hitting him in the hands before falling harmlessly to the ground.
October 3rd, 2011 at 12:07 PM ^
I believe Hemingway and Roundtree both have the same amount of drops. Also, until last week wasn't Gallon, our slot receiver, leading the team with catches? Denard seems better at throwing to slot receivers and TE's than hitting some of the outside routes. Not to mention Denard's innacurracy and the amount of receivers we rotate in and out. Watching the Minnesota game, Borges seemed to focus on quicker and easier routes for Denard to find an open receiver, instead of asking Denard to throw the bal deep downfield, where he is innaccurate. Plus, Rountree isn't exactly built for the outside WR spot, as Brian commented last week. Without Stonum though, we don't have a good outside WR, beyond Roundtree, Hemingway, and Gallon (two of those are slot WR), since Odoms is hurt and Jackson and Robinson do not seem to be there yet. If Denard keeps his pace up, Roundtree will get more touches.
October 3rd, 2011 at 12:11 PM ^
I don't recall Hemingway having too many drops. Are you sure?
October 3rd, 2011 at 12:20 PM ^
I know he has had a few 'drops' where they are really tough catches due to poor throws but he gets his hands on them. If he makes the play it is an amazing catch but I don't blame him for not being able to hold on to them.
October 3rd, 2011 at 5:36 PM ^
Hemingway has two I believe, which is not much, and Roundtree has 3, I think. I remember Hemingway dropped a 2nd or 3rd and long drop in the ND that was quite catchable. Roundtree also dropped a great throw from Denard in that game. Also, Hemingway had several great grabs in that game, and, as the below poster says, Hemingway has several big grabs. The purple stuff poster far below really highlights the issue: there just is not much passing going on. Not many opportunities and when you do spread the field with 3-4 WR and a TE 15ish passes a game can only be spread among so many people.
October 3rd, 2011 at 12:20 PM ^
doesn't seem too important when Hemingway has also caught twice as many balls for 6x the yardage.
October 3rd, 2011 at 11:58 AM ^
I think he hasn't been targeted as much, also I'd argue that it's because he's now wide and the "easiest" throws, or the ones Robinson is more comfortable with are the shorter ones with the slots, look at how involved Jeremy Gallon has been lately, or even Dileo, those where the routes Roundtree used to run when he had Hemingway and Stonum wide, also I don't think Roy has seized every opportunity he's got, he'll be more used down the road
October 3rd, 2011 at 11:28 AM ^
Roundtree did have the dropsies at the end of last year, but receivers sometimes lose concentration if they're not getting the ball. I'm not saying it's right, but Denard hasn't been able to hit his receivers the last few weeks . . . and the coaches have really been running the ball a lot. I think the receivers reach a point where they're a) not getting the ball because of the playcalling and b) not getting the ball because the quarterback is struggling, and all of a sudden they're not 100% focused.
October 3rd, 2011 at 11:31 AM ^
What's up is that Roy is a good receiever. But if you are looking for an all american type game breaker with NFL upside - look elsewhere. He's never been at that level and in my opinion will never get there.
October 3rd, 2011 at 11:31 AM ^
I don't remember anything beinging right with him. In the bowl game last year, he dropped a half dozen passes.
LIke the previous poster said, I don't blame Denard for not throwing his direction. His routes aren't sharp, and he drops balls that hit him directly in the #'s. I'll take Drew D., Kroger, and Junior H. all day, over him. Plus, i'm not sure the 20-40 yards pass is really in Denards range of tosses. Anything over 20, he sky's, and it's usually a 50/50 ball.
Michigan needs to continue running bubble screens, traps, draws, and that tricky new option play they sh owed against Minnesota, with Denard and Vincent Smith. In fact, I’d like to see Denard run a lot more option, including, the pass option. After rolling out with the RB, fake the pitch (or run), and drop back 5 yards for an easy pass. I imagine that would be more fitting for Denards skill set.
October 3rd, 2011 at 2:34 PM ^
9 catches. 246 yards. 2 TDs.
and you don't remember anything right with him other than catching 1 jump ball last month?
October 3rd, 2011 at 11:32 AM ^
He's just does not have the physical ability to compete with corners on the outside, he's better in slot where he has open space. I doubt it's alarming he'll be up to par soon, and if not now he'll prob be a factor come next season with strotum on the outside.
October 3rd, 2011 at 11:34 AM ^
Strotum?
October 3rd, 2011 at 11:51 AM ^
It looks like he forgot the "c". Hope that helps.
October 3rd, 2011 at 11:52 AM ^
Scrotum
October 3rd, 2011 at 11:54 AM ^
It might be my lack of sleep, but I definitely read that as scrotum as well...
October 3rd, 2011 at 11:57 AM ^
Walk-on maybe!?
October 3rd, 2011 at 11:57 AM ^
Trying to decipher some of this. Help me out on one - what does this mean?
I doubt it's alarming he'll be up to par soon...
October 3rd, 2011 at 11:36 AM ^
I think he'd be better if he moved back to slot, but I have no idea who the other outside reciever would then be. If Roundtree isn't big enough to play outside, well... Dileo and Gallon are going to have that problem squared.
October 3rd, 2011 at 11:37 AM ^
Along these same lines, get Odoms back in there. He was pretty sure handed pre-injury. NEED MOAR GOAT.
October 3rd, 2011 at 11:47 AM ^
He's been out there a few times but never targeted.
October 3rd, 2011 at 11:53 AM ^
He was targeted once on a screen/flare route, but Denard overthrew him. I think it was in the SDSU game, not sure though.
October 3rd, 2011 at 12:06 PM ^
Yeah, he played a lot of snaps on Saturday but didn't ever seem to be the primary receiver. He played a ton of running downs.
October 3rd, 2011 at 11:55 AM ^
He is not being most efficiently utilized on the outside as he is a very good slot reciever. We have no other options on the outside though so it is what it is.
October 3rd, 2011 at 11:58 AM ^
I think it's the move from the slot. Junior Hemingway is on pace to have his best season of his career and he's a WR who is mainly catching balls downfield. So I think blaming Denard is simply misplaced criticism. Roy doesn't seem to have the skillset to be a wideout and it doesn't help that he's having trouble catching the football. The nice thing about this past weekend is Borges and Denard really spread the wealth: 8 different guys caught passes.
It seems like they are still tinkering to get the best production possible out of the offense and hopefully that will include finding ways to get Roy involved in the passing game.
October 3rd, 2011 at 12:05 PM ^
Gallon seems to be the preferred option at slot, which means Roundtree has been playing more outside. We haven't really targeted our outside WRs much in general this year (ND excepted), and Roundtree's had a case of the dropsies on top of that. Junior Hemingway's caught everything thrown at him, but he only has 10 receptions.
October 3rd, 2011 at 12:10 PM ^
I believe Hemingway has two drops. One for sure in the ND game.
October 3rd, 2011 at 12:35 PM ^
Our most productive receiver (Hemingway) is averaging just two catches per game. Denard is only averaging ten completions per game (we've run the ball twice as often as we've passed).
On a per game basis the numbers look like this:
Hemingway and Gallon: 2 catches each
Koger: 1.5 catches
Roundtree, Dileo, Smith: 1 catch each
Roy is basically one big game away from being right back in the mix in a big way.
October 3rd, 2011 at 1:07 PM ^
Roundtree was wide open for an easy 6 points. This is more about Denard getting use the offense and to the proper checkdowns, etc. It's not a reflection on Roy Roundtree. Actually, I hope opponents forget all about Roundtree and stop covering him.
October 3rd, 2011 at 1:52 PM ^
Here's a guy who caught 70+ passes for damn near 1000 yards. He'll be back.
Before everyone attributed his success 100% to denard's feet, Roy came on strong at the end of 2009 as Tate's favorite target, and not nearly as uncovered in space. I remember thinking at the time that this guy has a knack for making the play and heading downfield. Not to mention that he's an excellent blocker downfield.
I do think Al Borges will start to get him in on the action with some drags, hitches, slants, etc. It's not like anyone is really tearing it up at the moment. Our leading receiver through 5 games has what, a dozen or so grabs? There aren't a lot of balls to be caught at the moment. Let's not start talking about casualties yet.
I still don't get how people frown on Roy's hands/concentration and not on Junior. Yes, Junior can go upstairs and outjump some dudes, but honestly, when the ball's headed his way, it seems like it's 50/50 that the ball will clang right off his facemask.
I'll predict that Roy still surpasses 50 catches and 600 yards.
October 3rd, 2011 at 2:21 PM ^
The scheme has no doubt hurt Roundtree, but let's be honest, Roundtree has frequently made mistakes since he got here. For every 2 or 3 catches there seems to be at least 1 drop of a perfectly thrown ball.
To me, with Hemingway, Gallon, and Smith there is little room for Roundtree to catch many passes. For instance, if you compare this year's ND game to last' year's. Denard attempted 16 fewer passes. Doesn't sound that significant, but when there are 4 or 5 guys who could be targeted on 1 play, it's easy to end a game with 2 or fewer catches.
Regardless, Roundtree is a great receiver and we can't forget that he has come up big for us in the past and will in the future. Low catch numbers does not = bad performance
October 3rd, 2011 at 3:14 PM ^
#1 This offense doesn't exploit a WR position like Rich Rod's did with the slot WR
#2 Denard has been off for much of the year
#3 Denard hasn't passed as much
#4 Denard has passed to TEs and RBs more
#5 We've been up on teams more
#6 We run fewer plays than we did under Rich Rod (this is probably the biggest)
#7 He doesn't play slot as much
#8 He's dropped passes more (IMO, he becomes a little disinterested when he'd not involved early)
#9 We don't throw short as much (until the last game)
#10 Gallon has improved
October 3rd, 2011 at 5:46 PM ^
I think Hemingway should be our main guy and move Gallon into Junior's spot, Roundtree has been dropping too many passes lately, maybe its because of the Flak Jacket he's always wearing? I think he should get rid of it