Was lack of pass rush the cause of this historic aberration?
If you're not interested in a rehash post please feel free to stop reading now and my apologies for cluttering the board.
I realize posting at this time when everyone is angry/frustrated is ill advised, but many of us are trying to process and understand how our #1 defense served up the worst performance in the history of the rivalry. We all want this categorized, understood and processed so we can move on mentally and emotionally.
A simple take that might provide such understanding is that this game was defined by the lack of pass rush, period. No pass rush exposed Michigan in 2 ways:
1. Brown's defense is unduly reliant on pass rush, without which it has glaring weaknesses.
2. Haskins is arguably the best passing QB in Big Ten history and the lack of pressure gave him time to follow Indiana's blue print and expose those weaknesses in a way only someone of his caliber could.
A talent or speed gap was not the cause. It was a defense over reliant on an element that was missing, coming face to face with the best QB arguably in generations to expose that missing element. Can anyone point to another game where the pass rush was this non-existent in the Don Brown era? Please elaborate on if I'm way off here but this is how I am processing this aberration of a game unless educated otherwise.
Thanks in advance for any input.
November 27th, 2018 at 12:10 PM ^
Fabulous Joey. Just what I was looking for. Thank you sir.
November 27th, 2018 at 12:36 PM ^
FYI - that's Space Coyote's work.
November 27th, 2018 at 1:13 PM ^
Space Coyote is a great resource. If he tells me I'm wrong, then I'm wrong...but I think he under sells some of the WTF in the offensive game plan.
Fine, I can accept McCurry (and especially Wilson) getting early snaps: there's a package that they're part of. Personally, I love Tru and hope he gets a fair shake to be RB1 next year.
I can accept (barely) 1st down runs when playing from behind because 2nd and 7 is better than 2nd and 10.
What I can't accept are lack of RPOs, zone read keepers, and the godawful clock management that you get from 1st down runs when playing from behind. Add that to Space Coyote's gripe about the backup QB management...not a great day for Harbaugh.
November 27th, 2018 at 4:14 PM ^
Space Coyote is great at explaining assignments, alignments and intention of plays/schemes. He sometimes defends things too much IMO because he understands the coaches intent. I don't even intend that as a slight as civil disagreement is inevitable. That said, the game plan last Saturday was complete and utter bullshit. Our players defensively looked unprepared, and yes they were done in by great athletes, but that goes back to the scheme and plan. OSU had the defense downloaded, and down to the adjustments Michigan was reacting all game long, and predictably. I am not saying to get rid of anyone, but this should never happen again. Have a game plan that is ongoing year round with unique calls and checks specifically for OSU.
November 27th, 2018 at 12:14 PM ^
That was an excellent read. The point about stacking the receiver so Watson couldn't get his hands on him at the line was something I didn't even think about, but makes perfect sense in hindsight. He relies on his physicality to disrupt timing because he doesn't have the pure speed.
November 27th, 2018 at 12:24 PM ^
Yea, I figured there wasn't a way that OSU could be that much faster than every receiver that Watson had ever covered. The scheme being at fault and putting him at a disadvantage makes much more sense, especially when you know he's not fast enough to catch up.
November 27th, 2018 at 1:01 PM ^
Watson was getting targeted and getting torched repeatedly. He doesn’t have great speed, let alone “make-up” speed. Why Brown didn’t give Thomas a shot early and often really frustrated me
November 27th, 2018 at 1:17 PM ^
Space Coyote addresses that. Basically, yes, Ambry has great speed. But unrefined technique and assignment diagnosis. What would have been interesting to me is having Metellus and Watson switching assignments/roles against crossing routes. Maybe?
November 27th, 2018 at 1:46 PM ^
Have you watched when Ambry has been out there this year? He tends to get a bit lost and doesn't have great ball awareness. Hopefully that will change going into next year because we will need him.
November 29th, 2018 at 7:42 AM ^
If BWat has better technique but isn’t fast enough to get in position to apply it but AmT has questionable technique and is fast enough to get in position to apply it then how is this even a decision?
November 27th, 2018 at 6:18 PM ^
If Ambry's decision on that KO out of bounds is any indication, I can see why Brown would be reluctant to use him anywhere that requires a bit of knowledge or thinking.
November 27th, 2018 at 9:04 PM ^
the offensive philosophy needed to change to "keep up" instead of "wear down".
November 29th, 2018 at 7:46 AM ^
39 points should have been enough to win this game. The defensive game plan was woefully insufficient. I still don’t understand how Gary and Winovich, two of the best DE’s in the country, got 0 sacks and 0 QB hurries.
November 27th, 2018 at 12:05 PM ^
Simple answer? Yes.
November 27th, 2018 at 12:05 PM ^
Mostly.
November 27th, 2018 at 12:05 PM ^
Holy fuck
Someone get a hold of Don Brown and tell him we need to install this "pass rush" concept immediately.
It could change everything!
November 27th, 2018 at 12:10 PM ^
Quick! Someone spam tweet this at all of the UM coaches non-stop for at least an hour!
November 27th, 2018 at 12:11 PM ^
I don't think that is what the OP is saying. He is wanting to know why there was no pass rush. Why couldn't we get home? This alone was the reason we lost and like the OP, I have been scratching my head wondering how Haskins remained clean the whole game.
November 27th, 2018 at 12:17 PM ^
Sadly there will be no UFR to tell us the answers to life's great mysteries.
100% agree with the OP on the root cause of our demise and have been telling all my wonderful OSU friends and co-workers the same thing. When you play press man coverage with a one high safety you simply HAVE to put pressure on the QB. If you dont you're dead as somebody, somewhere is going to break open eventually and Haskins is an excellent QB who will find the open guy and deliver the ball to him.
It really is as simple as that. The question that Goggles raises, which I too am mystified by, is why. Why was an OSU OL that struggled all year to keep Haskins clean from far less talented DL able to do so with such success against us? Seth tweeted "this OL is like nothing I've seen all year from OSU".
What happened?
November 27th, 2018 at 12:20 PM ^
No ufr?
November 27th, 2018 at 12:23 PM ^
I dont think there's been an OSU UFR since 2011.
November 27th, 2018 at 12:27 PM ^
Sadly, Brian will likely be in pout mode the rest of the year.
November 27th, 2018 at 12:34 PM ^
Me too
November 27th, 2018 at 12:28 PM ^
I doubt Brian will even watch this game again.
Here you go:
Heroes: Nobody
Maybe Not So Heroic: Puke
What does it Mean for Bowl Game and Future: Death
November 27th, 2018 at 12:58 PM ^
Come on Jerry. You should know these things.
November 28th, 2018 at 12:16 PM ^
I want it Deen.
November 27th, 2018 at 12:27 PM ^
Sadly there will be no UFR to tell us the answers to life's great mysteries.
I once really thought when the UFR got a sponsor, that said sponsor was doing it just to make sure there would be an Ohio UFR. I mean, why else? Brian was doing all the other games anyway.
Alas.
November 27th, 2018 at 1:14 PM ^
I don't know either, other than it seemed to me the refs were not calling OL holding for whatever reason - whereas they were calling everything else. The longer this went on (I think), the more they did it. It seemed like many plays where I watched the us trying to rush, there were either obvious or subtle holds going on. But I'd like to see the film review verify that.
November 27th, 2018 at 1:22 PM ^
Why did Michigan's offensive line suddenly hold up against Ohio State in 2013 after playing miserably against Michigan State, Nebraska, Northwestern and Iowa?
Shit just happens sometimes. Unfortunately for Michigan, it happened at the most miserable time this year.
November 27th, 2018 at 3:17 PM ^
The DEs were able to get doubled because the DTs couldn't beat their man one-on-one. Aubrey Solomon was missed and guys behind him are just guys.
November 27th, 2018 at 12:23 PM ^
Same. Before the game I figured that we'd get in the backfield and knock Haskins on his ass at least a few times. Maybe rattle him or force OSU to run. That we were unable to generate any pressure on him is why we lost. Hell, most of the QB's we faced this year would have been dangerous with a clean pocket and Haskins is on another level.
November 27th, 2018 at 2:28 PM ^
(1) OSU's line played way better than it had in previous games
(2) Both of our defensive ends that have proven that they can rush the passer and also do things besides rush the passer were playing with injured shoulders (I'm assuming in Chase's case, given they never said what it was, but it seems a pretty safe assumption) of varying extent and your hands/arms are very important in being able to get around linemen, to set up moves, to get them off of you, etc. We really only had one defensive tackle who had any success rushing the passer this year, so without the ends getting home we were in deep doodoo.
November 27th, 2018 at 12:07 PM ^
Haskins is arguably (or perhaps in-arguably) the best STATISTICAL passing QB in Big Ten history, but let's not confuse that with best passing QB in Big Ten history. Drew Brees probably has that honor sewn up.
November 27th, 2018 at 12:44 PM ^
At least if we're talking about total passing yards (not sure he's the leader in some other major categories), I think that's right actually. Not far behind him, I am sure, is fellow Boilermaker Curtis Painter.
November 27th, 2018 at 12:08 PM ^
Exactly how I saw it!
November 27th, 2018 at 12:13 PM ^
Pass rush was certainly a huge problem, but how could you say that talent gap wasn’t an issue? Maybe the gap isn’t huge, but it was certainly evident that OSU has better players almost across the board. Watson got torched almost every play and nothing was done about it.
The offense is also a problem. The lack of TDs in the red zone, the garbage play calling, the lack of creativity, dropped passes, etc. So ya pass rush was issue #1, but was not the sole reason why Michigan got humiliated.
November 27th, 2018 at 12:23 PM ^
Agree. Harbaugh recruits some nice players but the bulk of his classes have been under radar MAC caliber kids. A lot of quality but not enough elite kids to beat the better teams.
November 27th, 2018 at 12:31 PM ^
Nearly our entire roster is filled with 4 star kids that had offers from a number of power 5 schools. I mean Harbaugh’s first two classes were both top 10. His second class was #5 in the nation. I believe his current class is #5 in the nation as well.
November 27th, 2018 at 1:20 PM ^
"...the bulk of his classes have been under the radar MAC caliber kids."
Why even type this complete bullshit statement? Seriously. I normally don't feed trolls, but please do us all a favor and never let your fingers hit a keyboard or touch pad again.
November 27th, 2018 at 12:26 PM ^
I mean, we're never gonna have a talent advantage against them, so they'll always be a talent gap. Even the one year you could say we had a talent advantage in 2016 because we were way more experienced, we couldn't win. But hell, the game plan that year made more sense because we had a QB that was hurt two weeks before. We didn't even try to throw until it was too late, and when we did it was to tight ends. I'm not saying abandon the run completely because I think Tru Wilson will do well next year, but we need way more of a short passing game on first and second down.
November 27th, 2018 at 12:29 PM ^
MSU held that same offense to 17 points. It obviously wasn't a "talent gap" issue. Purdue held them to 20. Penn State held them to 27. I cannot understand how or why guys like you refuse to see this. They can be stopped (or at least slowed to where 39 points from the offense wins the game) with a better defensive plan than what we had. The end.
November 27th, 2018 at 12:33 PM ^
Oh yes, it was all the defensive plan. If only we planned to pressure the QB!
C'mon man, no plan/scheme is going to shut down an offense of that caliber when you can't pressure the QB at all. Those other teams did, we couldn't for some reason.
November 27th, 2018 at 12:50 PM ^
Good lord, what an awful reply.
Does MSU have more talent on defense than we do? Does Purdue? Start there. Answer those. We'll go slow.
November 27th, 2018 at 1:06 PM ^
Awful reply when you blamed it primarily on the game plan when that wasn't at all the case? Good job champ! Game plan wasn't awesome, but lack of QB pressure was much more the culprit than simply "game plan stunk!".
November 27th, 2018 at 1:15 PM ^
You didn't answer my questions. Just type "No".
November 27th, 2018 at 1:20 PM ^
Keep going champ! Almost there!
November 27th, 2018 at 1:24 PM ^
ijohnb, are you related to this guy? Is this an alt account of yours? This guy is showing the exact same kind of mental derailment you showed in our previous two exchanges, and you coincidentally pop up in the middle of this conversation. He's even misquoting me the same way you did last time.
Interesting.
November 27th, 2018 at 1:32 PM ^
No, I was replying to him, not you.
He does not realize that you are a troll and not a real poster. I was just trying to save him a few non-sense replies by steering the conversation away from you.
Carry on though. I know this makes you feel really good about yourself.
November 27th, 2018 at 1:36 PM ^
Ohio State is not even good this year. Michigan is just fucking terrible.