W-L Record with John O'Neill as Referee

Whether it is his group's officiating and or Michigan's play, it is never good to have him officiate the game.   Very bad karma. I was very concerned the moment I saw him.

Officiating didn't cost Michigan this game though -- crappy offense did.

I see a lot of people poo pooed the post.   It really interested me though because it never seems like Michigan wins when they do the game.   Thanks for the note

Sure John O'neill is a terrible ref, but lets not blame him for the 5 turnovers, terrible play calling, and shit Oline. We got out coached and beat ourselves. Move on and get ready for Indiana. It won't be an easy win.

This sure does put my Mike Valenti thread in perspective.

John O'Neill draws the marquee games, no? I don't think he's officiating Michigan vs. Little Sisters of the Poor. Need to control for strength of opponent. 

My intituion, based on watching the cascading effects of small variances in simulations, is that ref calls and non-calls are likely a "but for" cause of a substantial number of game outcomes. Yes, there are other "but for" causes. Yes, you can sometimes overcome bad calls and non-calls with terrific play. Yes, it's often impossible to tell, even in hindsight, the precise or even probable impact of any given calls/non-calls. But just because something is hard to directly observe or measure doesn't mean it doesn't exist or isn't meaningful. In this game, it didn't feel like the refs made the difference. But if we could somehow see into alternative universes, I would not be surprised to learn they did. Perhaps those early fades wouldn't have turned out so poorly if flags were thrown for contact while the ball was in the air. Perhaps we would have earned a new set of downs and scored what would have been the tying points. Perhaps MSU would have been forced to play softer coverage if that type of shit was getting called on MSU (it did get called on us). Perhaps O'Korn would not have made the same decisions if he wasn't pissed at the injustice of some blatant non-calls. Perhaps our own offense would have called and executed different plays had the MSU defense been regulated more strictly. Etc etc etc. This is all speculation. But any of it, or similar shit, might be correct. Just because we don't know if the refs changed the game outcome doesn't mean that isn't the case, or even that it isn't likely. What we do know is that some Big 10 refs sure do seem to fuck up. A lot. And that needs to change. I can definitely see where the refs could have been the "but for" cause of the outcomes for a number of close games, including this one, as well as for many not-so-close games. Yes, there are any number of causes for any outcome. Yes, you can just throw a touchdown every play and you'll still win, despite the refs. But, fuck. Refs do change games. They very well may have changed this one. Let's hold them accountable.

all know it's ok to admit we lost because our offense was terrible but still admit the refs screwed us. MSU was p[laying dirty as fuck and our guys were the one getting warned and flagged. the unsportsmanlike call early on Bush after the guy just got punched took a lot of the edge off his play. O'korn was constantly hit late and it was never call except for the rediculous bullshit out of bounds.

double post

I think the team has lost an edge after Harbaugh started wearing those ridiculous Woody Hayes frames... finally he chucked them but now still wears reading glasses at the games... it makes him look old.. Wish he'd get contacts.

Don't lie  Don't cheat   Don't steal

Don't whine   Don't complain   Don't make excuses...

Mgobloggers 0 for 6.

This is worth a look, but I don't think the O'Neill record is that significant.  

From 2011 through 2016, Michigan's record vs. The Triad of Shittiness (OSU, MSU and Iowa) is 4-12.  Michigan is 0-4 in those games where O'Neill was officiating.

Small sample size aside, Michigan has recently fared poorly against these teams regardless of who officiated.  

 

soon as I seen him as the referee I knew it was gonna be tough.

its that simple.

jdon

 

I turned the game off when I saw he was officiating and chalked up a loss.

ONeil officiated games appear to have the most blatant trend of 50/50 calls going against Michigan. I don't think this is sour grapes. This doesn't excuse making for 5 turnovers against MSU. It does mean Michigan needs to push back against having this crew in big games because this crew is in their heads. Teams know they can mug Michigans receivers when O'Neil is officiating. It's not a secret. People were talking about it before the game and no doubt every team will test it (and MSU did). It doesn't go both ways. Neither do the unsportsmanlike conducts. If Michigan would've came back, I'd be saying the same thing. Whether incompetence, unconscious bias or conscious bias...O'Neil games are consistently the most controversial every damned season. It's a trend.

was allowed to continue as a result of the ridiculous unsportsmanlike penalty.   Otherwise msu kicks a FG.  There were 2 other non-called unsportsmanlike (celebration penalties) that msu did right in front of my vantage point.  IMO these non-play flags should be given a warning first - not a penalty.

I still have an issue with the holding call on the TD pass - as the RB let go of the jersey after the block (and everyone grabs the jersey in between the shoulders).  But nothing went our way the entire game.

GoBlue!

 

..are against bad teams.. so maybe Michigan's broken football program just wasn't that good in these games? Trust me, I swore at this douche of an official a few times in this game (sometimes not even his fault, but he represents the entire crew) but he isn't the reason we lost. Think about it, suggesting he is the reason we lost is the equivalent of suggesting that him making different calls would be the reason Michigan won. None of us want that. Play better and win boys.

Where do you research records for teams and officials in their games? Always been intrigued by this stat and the psychology behind it.

Bowl Game.

MSU 9-9-. OSU 3-14 and Bowls 6-9.

I keep changing them to break the Big Game Jinx.

Thanks, I never thought to blame it on an official!

I'm going to save a lot of money in the future......

 

...you need to examine who was favored in each of these games. Then it might truly have some merit.

This program is not where it needs to be offensively to win big games in year three under Harbaugh. The season is not over and I have faith in these players and coaches.

have the crews that get the biggest games. And according to these stats, Michigan has a losing record under both. This means when the biggest games are played, we get their crews. So, you can argue that these stats don't mean anything, but I will argue that they do.

O'Neil threw a flag that cost Michigan a TD against MSU. He didn't throw a flag when O'Korn was hit late and then slammed down by Demetrius Cooper during his secpnd half interception parade. I have no idea how O'Neil defends the non-call. It was sp bad that MSU took Cooper out of the play that followed. O'Korn and Harbaugh went nuts with no response. And this then led to that sideline sideshow where O'Korn pretended to get pushed into the MSU sideline and then was jerked down from behind by someone out of camera view.

The holding call on Higdon was probably legitimate, but hardly obvious. The takedown of O'Korn was very obvious and not called. So, it makes you wonder what is the criteria for making calls in a game?

...really deep hatred for him.

That is all.

John O'Neill is on LinkedIn.

Good use of time jackass

we griped about the officiating in 2015 (holding, neutral zone infractions, offside on the last play) and similar events in this one (holding, late hit on JOK, no-call neutral zone infractions by MSU no different than the one called on Gary, lack of MSU DPI), and this guy worked both games...duh-duh-duuuuuuuuuhhhhh.