?Vaccine or Negative Test Required to Attend UM Games Starting 1/1/22

Submitted by Kilgore Trout on December 29th, 2021 at 12:34 PM

Looks like you will be required to prove vaccination or a negative test within 72 hours to attend games starting next week. Not much in the way of details on how it is going to be enforced. I don't think I really have an opinion on this one way or the other, but god speed to the ushers and ticket takers who will be tasked with verifying this for 12k people on 1/8 for the MSU game. 

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yossarians tree

December 29th, 2021 at 12:53 PM ^

I already wasn't going because of the mask requirement. Even if you could convince me that it does any good, I still wouldn't go because looking at a bunch of people all masked over makes me feel sick. I will never accept it as normal and hopefully I won't have to.

Joined: 08/19/2010

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Bando Calrissian

December 29th, 2021 at 1:08 PM ^

Hi, logging in to tell you in the strongest possible terms to get over yourself.

816,000+ Americans are dead from this virus. None of this is "normal," it cannot be normal until we all get on board with the scientifically-proven ways for us to get out of this.

Masks are an essential way for us all to ensure the health, safety, and survival of more people. So is vaccination. If that makes you feel sick, well, great choice of words, Captain Empathy. 

So if you aren't on board with being just a little bit selfless, with doing the bare minimum of putting a mask over your face for a couple hours and taking a Covid test, after two years of this with no end in sight because of people who think like you do, I don't know what to say other than I'm glad you'll be staying home. Makes it safer for the those folks who do the right thing when they choose to attend a game.

Joined: 07/02/2008

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GoWings2008

December 29th, 2021 at 1:21 PM ^

I think you're taking his argument out of context, although I know that in a temporary sense you have a very valid point.

But to his point, although masks seem to be the norm for a while, I hope like he does that it can go back "to the way things used to be." I hate the sight of masks en mass as well, especially outdoors, and hope that we are beyond this sooner rather than later. 

Lets not mistake someone's passionate opinion as willful disregarding of the rules or militant dogmatic ignorance, nor as a passive approach to something that we hope isn't normal after a while. 

We all have opinions. Don't be so self centered to think that yours is the only valid one.

EDIT: and this is why no politics on the Blog.

Joined: 01/26/2011

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Bando Calrissian

December 29th, 2021 at 1:24 PM ^

I'm choosing to follow the science. Indoor masking at mass events is an essential way to help curb the spread of COVID-19. So is vaccination. If you think I'm considering my views as the "only valid one," guilty as charged. I want to get out of this thing for the sake of vulnerable people in my life. I don't want them to die.

I honestly don't care if you think mass masking is unsightly. It's saving lives. 

EDIT: Public health isn't politics. But it says a lot that you think it is.

Joined: 07/02/2008

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Bando Calrissian

December 29th, 2021 at 1:35 PM ^

There's nothing to "debate," though. This is the problem: People who loudly declare "I have an opinion contrary to the experts, the science, and the preponderance of research, and I must be heard because I have an opinion." 

That's why we're still doing this going on two years.

Joined: 07/02/2008

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Wendyk5

December 29th, 2021 at 2:09 PM ^

True but there was a time when the people debating were qualified, i.e. knowledgeable, educated experts that we all trusted. It's not ok for people who have no expertise at all to have great influence over the health of a nation. And if we don't all agree on who is qualified, we're fu**ed as a country. We can't have different news sources and expect to be united and able to function as a country. 

Joined: 11/20/2008

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Venom7541

December 29th, 2021 at 2:54 PM ^

That's the problem. Qualified people are not allowed to debate once the narrative is decided. Instead, differing information, opinions, and data are marginalized and impuned without actually addressing them. Transparency and complete information are not allowed. Some people are ok with that, others question that.

Joined: 10/06/2016

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UMForLife

December 29th, 2021 at 10:51 PM ^

I know this is an old comment, but wow. You want a debate on a proven fact? This is not politics where you can present two different ways to solve an issue. There are idiots out there, some being Doctors mind you, who are going to tell a story based on their politics. Not faucci. That man has stood by his words based on data even when his job was in jeopardy. Stop with this debate nonsense.

 

 

 

 

Joined: 11/04/2013

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WindyCityBlue

December 29th, 2021 at 1:47 PM ^

Ok, I agreed with you all the way up to your last sentence, the "EDIT: Public health isn't politics. But it says a lot that you think it is."

Public health is absolutely political these days, and it sucks that it is.  To think that it is not, I really don't think you are paying attention.  I mean, this blog is supposedly "non-political" and here we are.

Joined: 07/23/2008

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Bigscotto68

December 29th, 2021 at 2:24 PM ^

You are certainly the KAREN of the day on MGOBLOG. Anyone who states that science cannot be questioned has no idea what science is. I don't care if I get 100,000 negs. Do you wear your beloved mask in the car by yourself, or are you the guy I saw at the gym wearing a mask in the pool?    K A R E N    :-)

Joined: 01/28/2012

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BayWolves

December 29th, 2021 at 5:51 PM ^

The scientific method demands that theories be challenged on an ongoing basis. You're 100% right about that. If people who question and challenge theories are censored and told to just shut it then the truth will never be known.  An appeal to authority by those willing to swallow the popular view doesn't get us anywhere good. There is an amazing lack of critical thinking being done by most in the country today while they just accept what they are being told without question. This is not good for a country that used to be able to claim it is educated. Now it is a country with  substantial population of submissive sheep who refuse to do anything other than accept the word of technocrats and politicians. This will get us in deep trouble in the long run. Copy this and re-read it in another 2 years.

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blue in dc

December 29th, 2021 at 6:57 PM ^

Elsewhere in this thread you made the completely unsubstantiated (and wrong) statement that it is vaccinated people who are responsible for overwhelming our hospitals.  Making shit up is not challenging a theory.   It is just sprouting utter nonsense.   In order to think critically, you need to start with facts.   Until you provide those facts, you aren’t thinking critically or pursuing the scientific method.

Joined: 01/22/2011

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drjaws

December 29th, 2021 at 3:22 PM ^

Holy shit man calm down. He’s allowed to have his opinions and feelings on masks. It’s ok his feelings and opinions differ from yours. It’s a free country. We all have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Notice how “not being offended by how someone’s feeling affect you and your behavior” isn’t one of them?

And he said he NOT going because of his feelings. That’s the way this works.

Also, you’re literally arguing and bitching against something you made up in your head. OP never mentioned anything against what UM is doing. He just said “I personally don’t like this so I won’t attend.” That’s his right and honestly, it’s the way things should be. A business or institution says “we require X to do Y” and you don’t like X, you’re free to not engage in Y or find another business/institution to do Y.

Joined: 02/26/2014

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yossarians tree

December 29th, 2021 at 1:21 PM ^

You're projecting. I never said I wouldn't wear one under certain circumstances if it seems reasonable. 

I just said I won't under those circumstances. So I do my own thing.

See, it's complex. But some people want everything to be binary so they can understand better and make sure they are on the right side of things. I won't do that either.

 

Joined: 08/19/2010

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AceUofMer

December 29th, 2021 at 2:38 PM ^

Where required*
it’s not for everyone. The debate is about not being able to make the choice. Not the decision itself. As soon as that is understood, more productive conversations can take place. Just from my observation. 

your tone here will only adhere to one side. Want to make a point? Understand the argument better. 
this is coming from someone that thinks the vaccine is good and masks do make a difference. Also could care less if anyone around me had either or not. 

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sdogg1m

December 29th, 2021 at 1:25 PM ^

Don't sweat the debbie downers; this policy falsely concludes that fully vaccinated individuals cannot spread the virus. #science!

If Michigan was truly look to lead in regards to protecting its attendees then administrators craft a policy demanding that all fans produce a negative test prior to attending.

Joined: 09/13/2008

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ColoradoBlue

December 29th, 2021 at 1:36 PM ^

You seriously think that this policy concludes that fully vaccinated individuals cannot spread the virus? 

I dunno.  Perhaps it just about the fact that vaccinated individuals have a much lower chance of contracting and transmitting the infection than the unvaccinated.  Perhaps it's not a black-and-white thing but a simple policy that shifts the odds in humanity's favor.

Also - I agree that requiring negative tests for admission is the best, but that isn't feasible/practical unless they are rapid tests administered at the facility upon admission.  That is not going to happen.

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sdogg1m

December 29th, 2021 at 1:48 PM ^

Yes, when you are presented with an either/or option and the options are produce proof of vaccination or a negative test then the assumption is the vaccinated are not carriers and spreaders of the virus and the unvaccinated are. This conclusion flies in the face of present examples and data tables.

The fact that the majority of the mgopoint givers fail to see the simple logic of this gives me pause. I hope they are not degree earners from the University.

Joined: 09/13/2008

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ColoradoBlue

December 29th, 2021 at 2:18 PM ^

No -  this policy is not implying the equivalency of the two. They are simply giving antivaxxers an option to attend the games... an option that is equivalent or better (odds-wise) than simply having the vaccine.  What method of documentation would be acceptable for an unvaccinated than a negative test?  None.  The fact that they are allowing a 72-hour grace period seems very generous to me.  72-hours is a long time for the virus to find purchase in the fertile lungs of the unvaccinated.

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blue in dc

December 29th, 2021 at 3:43 PM ^

The question is, are you taking reasonable measures to reduce the spread, or are you trying to eliminate it.   Testing three days in advance doesn’t guarantee that you don’t have covid, it just reduces the chances you have it.

Having the vaccine doesn’t guarantee that you don’t have covid, it just reduces the chance that you have it.

Both groups are being asked yo take a reasonable measure to demonstrate they are less likely to have covid.   For the unvaccinated, it is more inconvenient and expensive, but, as they like to loudly and proudly and constantly remind us, that is their choice,

The fact that you can’t see that logic gives me pause.

Joined: 01/22/2011

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DelhiWolverine

December 29th, 2021 at 7:56 PM ^

I appreciate the appeal using logic, but your assumptions and conclusion are flawed. You seem to be stating that vaccinated attendees and those with negative tests 72 hrs prior have roughly the same odds of being Covid-free when they attend the sports event. 
 

Because we now know that double vaccination has a 30% chance of preventing infection with omicron, it’s hard to logically infer that vaxxed, but untested people are equally Covid-free as those who were actually tested. 

With the current variant and its ability to beat the vaccine (in terms of infection), the best way to ensure a Covid-free audience would be to test everyone, regardless of vax status. 
 

The “vaxxed are ok” policy that has been adopted doesn’t match the emerging science on how omicron works. 

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blue in dc

December 29th, 2021 at 11:31 PM ^

I don’t disagree that a test all policy would be the best policy if the goal was to maximize risk reduction.   I suspect there are a number of things being balanced here.   First I imagine they are trying to balance risk reduction with implementability.    As you noted, vaccinations do somewhat reduce risk of transmission.   The only other alternative for unvaccinated is testing.   I would not be surprised if they realize darn well that they will probably have less folks who have to test because it is not particularly convenient.   It would not surprise me to know that it is a bit of a passive aggressive way to say to our fans, if you expect our players to get vaccinated so they can play, we’d really prefer for you to get vaccinated to.  Because the science also says, if you get vaxxed, you greatly reduce stress on the medical system.     Given the University is pretty prominently associated with a large medical provider, this may be something they care about.

All speculation obviously.

Joined: 01/22/2011

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blue in dc

December 29th, 2021 at 1:40 PM ^

If people want to respect the science, they will get the vaccinated.   The science is clear.    If you are vaccinated, you are less likely to catch covid and therefore less likely to spread it.   

Even more importantly, it is about making sure our hospitals aren’t overwhelmed.    Here the science is even stronger.   If you get vaccinated and catch covid, you are significantly less likely to get a serious case and tax our hospital system.   If everyone was vaccinated, we wouldn’t need to be worried about the spread of covid, because most people wouldn’t get very sick and our hospital systems would not be overtaxed.   We wouldn’t need masks and our lives could return to normal.

In essence, anti vax is pro covid.   Pro covid is pro giving the government a reason to take more control.   By far the most logical position for someone who is anti big government is to be a huge advocate of people getting vaccines.   The problem is, very little logic is being employed.

 

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MGoStrength

December 29th, 2021 at 5:54 PM ^

 If you get vaccinated and catch covid, you are significantly less likely to get a serious case and tax our hospital system.

There is always a more complex argument of value judgements.  For example, while that maybe true, it is also true that the risk of taxing the hospital system of otherwise healthy people under the age of 60 is pretty slim.  So, it then moves from a question of are the various vaccinations safe and effective to should everyone be required to take them even if they are at little risk themselves?

In essence, anti vax is pro covid.   Pro covid is pro giving the government a reason to take more control.   By far the most logical position for someone who is anti big government is to be a huge advocate of people getting vaccines

Medicine is a soft science.  It's not a hard science like chemistry.  In chemistry you mix solution A with chemical B and you get a reaction.  Medicine does not work that way.  There is nuance and context.  One size fits all mandates do not allow room for nuance.  Age, gender, health status, body composition, and many others make an impact on how one choses to treat medical issues.  If hypothetically only one shot (of two) reduces myocarditis risk for young men 16-24 that would make sense, particularly to a group at very low risk of illness.  But a blanket mandate requiring vaccination might now allow that.  Would the stadium accommodate someone with severe allergies to the components of the vaccine?  Would they accept a medical exemption at the gate?  And, when we have blanket mandates or requirements, I have seen several instances where the powers that be do not give room for this sort of nuance.

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blue in dc

December 30th, 2021 at 8:42 AM ^

“it is also true that the risk of taxing the hospital system of otherwise healthy people under the age of 60 is pretty slim.”   Granted many of the people who have refused vaccines may not fit the category of “otherwise healthy” and you and I may have a difference of opinion about the risk of taxing the hospital system, but many states (and they were generally low vax states) were in fact turning people away this fall,

“Daniel Wilkinson, 46, who served two deployments in Afghanistan, died Sunday of gallstone pancreatitis, a treatable illness, after waiting hours for an ICU bed, KPRC reported. “

"The doctor was trying to find him an ICU bed," Puget told KPRC. "He said 'we have been refused so far.' He said 'we have called Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Kansas and Colorado.'" 

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/569834-veteran-dies-of-treatable-illness-after-waiting-hours-for-icu-bed

A simple web search finds many stories like this.

 

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MGoStrength

December 30th, 2021 at 3:11 PM ^

“Daniel Wilkinson, 46, who served two deployments in Afghanistan, died Sunday of gallstone pancreatitis, a treatable illness, after waiting hours for an ICU bed, KPRC reported. “

"The doctor was trying to find him an ICU bed," Puget told KPRC. "He said 'we have been refused so far.' He said 'we have called Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Kansas and Colorado.'" 

Our healthcare system is filled with lots of people with preventable disease or injuries, many of which are caused by bad decisions and poor lifestyle choices.  Obesity, smoking, alcoholism, texting and driving, drinking and driving, etc.  While unfortunate, it happens all the time.  The risk of death from Covid is slim for most and we have lots of tools to help yourself.  I don't believe the benefit is worth harms of restrictions and mandates.  People that want to get vaccinated will and those that don't wont.  Take care of your own health and don't worry about what others do.  Do this and the vast majority of the time things will work out fine.  Of course there will always be unfortunate exceptions.  That will never change.

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blue in dc

December 30th, 2021 at 9:30 AM ^

A U of M Dr on the rusk of myocarditis (despite the following quote, I can see how this one would be a tougher decision for some people)

https://healthblog.uofmhealth.org/childrens-health/11-myths-about-covid-vaccines-and-kids

Truth: For more than 99% of kids, there won’t be any effect on their heart. Health officials are, however, monitoring a very rare occurrence of heart inflammation after the vaccine, known as myocarditis. Symptoms of this suspected immune response are usually mild, treated with ibuprofen and resolve after a couple of days.

But young people face a greater risk of myocarditis from infection with COVID itself than from the vaccine, Lloyd notes.

“The risk of heart inflammation after vaccination is very low and symptoms are usually short-lived. But if you’re concerned about this risk, it’s important to also keep in mind that COVID-19 infection causes myocarditis at much higher rates than the vaccine,” Lloyd said. “Getting vaccinated actually protects you from COVID-associated myocarditis.”

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drjaws

December 29th, 2021 at 3:27 PM ^

He is staying home. That was his point. And he doesn’t have to keep his mouth shut. It’s America. Not fucking China. He’s free to espouse whatever idea he wants, regardless of what they are.

you’re free to not pay attention, get mad whatever. You’re not free to silence him. That’s how this works in America dude 

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East German Judge

December 29th, 2021 at 4:17 PM ^

You make excellent points, only thing to add is that because of the strain that this has caused the healthcare system, many people have not gotten or had to delay medical care, and this is definitely not good and this will cause untold deaths long term that may never get added to the this death total.

All across America, hospital ICUs are full and patients are being turned away and this is a fact, thus this collateral damage is immense and this will also increase everyone's healthcare cost and the cost of goods as employers pass on this cost.

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MGoStrength

December 29th, 2021 at 7:13 PM ^

How to balance that against other harms of coercing people to undertake medical treatments they are uncomfortable with or risk losing their job or civil liberties is a difficult one to equate, not to mention the harms of masking developing children in schools, and the growing mental health and obesity rates all this is causing. Again, complex issues that warrant discussion and debate.

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