Thoughts on Coach H brining in all new Oline late vs WMU
Mayfield, Filiaga, Spanellis, Honigford, Hudson. Wholesale line change when McCaffrey was brought in, iirc.
So couple of questions...
Why not just sub in Mayfield and/or Hudson at LT when the game was out of reach? Not knocking decision but asking.
I would think they've been working together as a unit and want them to get first game time experience together? So there's that, but is there any downside to bringing in 5 fresh guys?
Might've just been a luxury of early season blowout.
Thoughts. Comments.
September 9th, 2018 at 6:46 PM ^
I think we were up by seven scores and we wanted backups in there getting reps, starters resting. Let's not overthink 2+2 here.
September 9th, 2018 at 6:51 PM ^
Yep, and the more reps the back ups can get the better because I think we are going to see the Oline go through a few shake ups this season.
September 9th, 2018 at 6:54 PM ^
I also think neither Mayfield nor Hudson is currently better than either Runyan or JBB. They both had their crack at taking the job from a guy the coaches knew was going to be a liability and couldn't do it.
FWIW, you know how a lot of people have been really impressed with the demeanor and poise of McCaffrey? For all of his faults, Runyan has shown a similar demeanor. Even when he was physically overmatched against ND, he didn't hang his head or look lost or timid. Compare that to Mayfield in time in this game (I didn't really watch Hudson) -- Runyan carries himself like a starting Big Ten player, Mayfield still has the wide-eyed look of a guy who doesn't yet know what's going on. Again, take it for what it's worth, which isn't much.
September 9th, 2018 at 7:10 PM ^
The coaches started Ulizio last year. He did not turn out to be the better option. Also, I thought Mayfield looked fine when he was out there? I don't really know what you're talking about in regards to him.
September 9th, 2018 at 7:21 PM ^
That was with a different OL coach. Also, as much as fans like to bring up the times when the staff gets a personnel decision wrong, they get them right most of the time. (How many of our 22 offensive and defensive starters do you think should be benched?)
September 9th, 2018 at 10:59 PM ^
Metullus for Hawkins IMO... Hawkins had a couple missed opportunities but he has consistently been in position and I think he has room to get much better.
September 9th, 2018 at 7:46 PM ^
Ulizio wasn't any worse either. It was rearranging deck chairs all year last year.
September 9th, 2018 at 10:06 PM ^
Ulizio was worse. There’s a reason he’s now the third string left guard.
September 9th, 2018 at 9:02 PM ^
You misunderstood at least twice in 4 sentences.
I did not say that the coaches couldn’t be wrong about the better option. Didn’t even hint at the topic at all. But, JBB was only marginally better than Ulizio overall, and he was even pulled for Ulizio in obvious passing downs late in the season. Both played poorly, and JBB was just as bad in his first action as Ulizio had been. To your credit, he ended up better than Ulizio.
I did not say Mayfield didn’t look fine when he was out there. I said he had the wide eyed look that virtually every young player has. That’s not even a criticism. It’s just that until he gets some more experience and gets more comfortable, he isn’t ready to start. If that changes soon, great!
September 9th, 2018 at 9:55 PM ^
Who the fuck could you tell if he had a wide eyed look? If love to see a even shot Pretty sure you are mostly full of shit.
September 9th, 2018 at 10:09 PM ^
Reader played offensive line in college. I’m pretty sure if anyone is full of shit about offensive line play it’s not him.
September 9th, 2018 at 11:49 PM ^
More importantly, I always had the wide eyed look of someone who didn't really know what was going on.
September 10th, 2018 at 12:37 AM ^
Playing offensive line doesn’t give you super-human abilities to see through helmets. Wide eyed really? I think it would be more efficient to stick with gameplay results rather than focusing on the way their eyes look.
September 10th, 2018 at 2:35 AM ^
Speaking of efficiency, they've designed cutting-edge helmets that allow players to see out of them. With their eyes.
The results were fine. I saw him throw one tremendous block in which he drove his man for literally 10 yards! Look for it on UFR, I'd bet it's clipped.
But, with my regular human eyes and a bit of training, I can see that he doesn't look as comfortable in the game yet as a guy who has played a few hundred snaps already, all across the country. No surprise, as Mayfield was playing in his first game, in front of a hundred thousand.
One small, not very significant but illustrative example from the game: after one play, Mayfield went past the huddle, having to turn around and walk back to his teammates. It's on the film. It doesn't mean ANYTHING in terms of gameplay results, but it does indicate that he just isn't 100% comfortable in the game just yet.
September 10th, 2018 at 8:25 AM ^
I wouldn't mind seeing Hudson & Mayfield roll with the 1's for an entire series or two. Wouldn't that give us a better indication of how game ready they are?
I would like to see one of them win the RT position sooner, rather than later.
September 10th, 2018 at 11:33 AM ^
I’m all for it, and SMU should give them a chance to do it.
You’d get to see them against the starting defense, next to their starting guards, before the defense has given up, and see them block a full game plan.
Also, I’d argue that if you don’t see them with the ones against SMU, that means they aren’t close to winning the job. We all want to see what we’ve got, but coaches believe they know what we’ve got (and are right about 95% of the time), so if we don’t see them with the starters soon, you won’t at all, barring injury.
September 10th, 2018 at 1:46 PM ^
I just love the anger some people receive when they try to give some insight. NO WAY THIS PERSON KNOWS MORE THAN ME!! PROVE IT OR YOU SHOULD DIE!!
September 9th, 2018 at 10:47 PM ^
I know what you mean !!!! Mike Singletary had that wide-eyed look his entire career.... :)
September 9th, 2018 at 7:34 PM ^
Hudson may not be ready to start yet, but I like how highly Ed Warinner speaks of his raw abilities.
September 9th, 2018 at 8:51 PM ^
The way that Coach Warriner speaks of his raw abilities is like the way that Coach Fred Jackson could speak about a running back's raw abilities, but with even more power and exceptional quickness.
September 10th, 2018 at 1:27 PM ^
Why is this getting downvotes?
September 9th, 2018 at 7:50 PM ^
Agree. Like it or not, Mayfield and Hudson aren't going to take over any time soon. If they were pushing, I would think they get a series or two with the other starters. The fact they came in no earlier than all the other guys as every position means they're solidly second string, IMO.
That seemed insane after ND, but Runyan and JBB both had a good bounce back this week.
September 10th, 2018 at 2:33 AM ^
umbig11 suggested that they'd get in early, second quarter or second half. Perhaps the play of the OL convinced the coaches to keep the team together, or perhaps it was decided after a week of practice (umbig11's report was Monday, I think) that the best option was to keep giving the crew reps together.
Based on what we've seen and heard (a lot of it rumor, granted) I don't think Mayfield is ready. Runyan looks outclassed at times but it seems distinctly possible that Mayfield just doesn't belong on the field yet. Hudson seemed closer to JBB, so perhaps he is the better bet to get a look if things are bad when the competition picks up.
You know what would be nice, though? Our team notably improving through the course of the year the way so many other teams do. I can't tell you how many times I've laughed at MSU and OSU looking like garbage in September only to gnash my teeth as they are fully weaponized when we play them. Maybe, maybe, with Warriner in there Michigan can make those kinds of strides. Uh, maybe even with Runyan/JBB. Maybe.
September 10th, 2018 at 12:05 PM ^
This. One thousand times this. The O-Line had a rough game against ND, but let's keep improving week-to-week and maybe, just maybe, by the end of the season our biggest gripe will be lamenting that we scheduled the ND game for Week 1 rather than Week 3.
Sure the O-Line played against Western, so they should look better than when they ND. Still, I saw fewer mistakes overall, which is a big reason we wound up with a score of 49-3 rather than say 34-17. We shouldn't be booking hotel rooms for Indianapolis quite yet, but it's encouraging.
September 9th, 2018 at 9:08 PM ^
I think it is entirely possible that Runyon improves during the season. This is really his first extended, meaningful game action. He does not appear to be a lost cause to me, and while UFR may proves me wrong, I think we ran successfully and purposely over Runyon on a few different occasions. I think he can mash sufficiency, but he is a turnstile almost all of the time in pass-pro.
September 10th, 2018 at 10:30 AM ^
Runyan needs to remain as the starting LT. This is the growth year for him, but you ONLY get a veteran LT by playing him. The previous 2 years we attempted to use Mason Cole at a position which wasn't his strongest because there was no other option. OL's develop over time ... and those of you calling for changes might be disappointed because I don't think thats going to happen (unless injuries occur). It's impossible to see the blocking at the game - but when I got home at watched the game on TV, I thought Runyan did a very credible job.
Go Blue!
September 10th, 2018 at 9:54 AM ^
How did you get the sense that Mayfield was wide-eyed? He performed just fine out there and not once did they show his eyes on TV.
September 10th, 2018 at 10:17 AM ^
Mayfield believes he is better than Runyan and should be starting. Whether that is true who knows but you have to like the confidence.
September 10th, 2018 at 10:27 AM ^
The more I hear about Runyan the more respect I have for him. He might be doing something he isn't the best at because it's the best for the team.
I'm also struggling with some cognitive dissonance. I see people saying 'Warinner is a great coach' and at the same time 'We should elevate Mayfield/move Bredeson out/etc.'
If you like and trust Warinner, don't micromanage the guy.
September 9th, 2018 at 7:58 PM ^
The DrMT is back in the the house!
"Ain't that America, for you and me. Ain't that America, for something to see. Ain't that America, for the home of the free."
Go Blue !!!
September 9th, 2018 at 9:12 PM ^
Perfect answer. Nothing succeeds like simplicity.
September 9th, 2018 at 6:48 PM ^
Umm you don’t keep starters in when it’s a blow out in the 4th quarter. I assume you’re asking this because you were worried about Dcaff possibly getting injured with a whole new line in?
September 9th, 2018 at 6:51 PM ^
Not worried about McCaffrey as much as just don't remember all new oline coming in since Coach Harbaugh has been here. Maybe he hasn't had good enough 2's to do it.
I don't want starters in late in blowouts. I get that. I don't remember all new 5 recently.
EDIT: Didn't dislike it. Just a little surprised I guess.
September 9th, 2018 at 7:33 PM ^
Since Harbaugh has been here?
He subbed entire offensive lines in the following games just in 2016:
Hawaii, UCF, Penn St., Rutgers, Illinois, Maryland.
Thats about half the schedule. It was really just last year that he didn’t get many chances to sub an entire offensive line.
September 9th, 2018 at 7:45 PM ^
Thanks. I did not know that.
September 9th, 2018 at 7:03 PM ^
Looks to me like he's asking because he thinks one of those two LT prospects are just a bit of game experience away from being better than Runyan.
September 9th, 2018 at 8:50 PM ^
I did post LT's so there's that. Wasn't trying to dis anyone.
Not sure who pushed starters this summer but thought maybe coaches would've rolled with 'This thing is over so lets get Spanellis in there. He busted his ass this summer and really pushed CR.' or something along those lines. Nothing against CR. Then another sub and another.
Someone commented down below that if they would've sub'd for Runyan first, media/fans/etc would've had a field day with speculation. Good point.
I didn't know wholesale subs on Oline were so common. 5 times in 16'.
September 9th, 2018 at 8:52 PM ^
You don't think JBB is the one who is going to be the first out?
September 9th, 2018 at 9:10 PM ^
What about 'who's first in?
Maybe there's a OG that was right there with Bredeson and Owenu. Or a C that was pushing CR.
Not just thinking who's the weak link, if there is one, but lets sub X in there and see if there is any drop off to the oline's play we've seen so far.
September 9th, 2018 at 11:04 PM ^
I know that we heard so much BS during spring and August that everything has to be taken with a grain of salt but the coaches consistently said Bredeson and Ruiz were the 2 guys who were always set. Onwenu and Spanellis supposedly had a tight competition. It seems unlikely that Spanelllis will move to the outside.
September 9th, 2018 at 9:27 PM ^
I couldn't even begin to speculate in that manner. I'm more of a "leave it up to the coaches" at this point in my fandom. I know some people enjoy the discussion, I'm just not knowledgeable enough to provide any meaningful insight.
September 9th, 2018 at 6:51 PM ^
I think it is pretty standard practice to replace the entire OL in situations like Saturday.
The interesting thing to me was looked like they kept Mayfield out there when they went to the third line. Don't know if that means they wanted him to get a few more reps or if that meant there is no one else to put out there at LT.
September 9th, 2018 at 6:54 PM ^
Thanks you!
September 9th, 2018 at 7:29 PM ^
Or we have no other tackles
September 9th, 2018 at 8:14 PM ^
When they went to 3rd string they also kept Honigford and Filiaga out there. Not sure who was at center. So 3rd string they replaced at most two guys. I know Steuber was at RT.
September 10th, 2018 at 10:55 AM ^
That is not what I saw, which appears to be backed up by:
https://mgoblue.com/news/2018/9/8/football-player-participation-michiga…
LT -- 75 RUNYAN, 73 Mayfield
LG -- 74 BREDESON, 66 Filiaga, 70 Ulizio
C -- 51 RUIZ, 72 Spanellis, 68 Vastardis
RG -- 50 ONWENU, 59 Honigford, 58 Paea
RT -- 76 BUSHELL-BEATTY, 55 Hudson, 71 Stueber
September 9th, 2018 at 10:52 PM ^
Its obvious if you think about it... LT is a critical position and the starter hasn't played well.... the backup is a true freshman and needs reps in case he goes in... the third string guy isn't important at the moment.
September 9th, 2018 at 6:52 PM ^
I would have liked to see some time with just the tackles being replaced to see how it looked before garbage time.
I'd say it's pretty typical to pull most/all of the starters though when you get to that point though and that's probably why they'd do it that way. And probably a couple reasons for it. First, those guys on the 2nd team practice together and probably have better chemistry that they would with a jumbled line and second, you want to get as many of those guys reps as you can in case you need them. Can't do that as well with just putting some guys in and leaving others on the bench
September 9th, 2018 at 6:56 PM ^
salty
September 10th, 2018 at 1:57 PM ^
You are brining the humor.