Suggestions on handling management that plays fast and loose?...
...with what's essential and what's not? Obviously can't risk any identifiable info, but there's absolutely no way my industry could ever be considered essential, in Michigan or any other state.
Knowing that, here were some things being mentioned in office today: "We'll pay your fines if you get any" and "We'll sign formal notes that designate you as essential employees".
Pretty challenging rock and hard place. Any ideas for handling this well, without creating significant career problems?
March 23rd, 2020 at 10:08 PM ^
Game Stop closed their doors after social media backlash. Is your management team putting this in writing?
March 23rd, 2020 at 10:16 PM ^
Nothing in writing- sure would make things a lot simpler if they did.
March 24th, 2020 at 12:34 AM ^
make them put it in writing so you have a paper trail.
March 24th, 2020 at 12:46 AM ^
What are the laws against covertly audio recording them in your state?
If it fits between legal and “gray area,” do that and consult a lawyer.
Unfortunately, IIRC the order specifically allows companies to communicate orally to their employees until Apr 29 before releasing official written policy.
There are a lot of exceptions for businesses and even non-exempt businesses have exceptions for some job roles. There's a lot of room for some one hell bent on staying open to argue that they can.
Are you concerned healthwise or legally? I really don't think there's going to be any enforcement of individuals traveling. It sounded like any repercussions were going to be against businesses, and even then, they couldn't really even define what and how. Obviously if you don't feel comfortable going in don't, no job is worth your health or life.
March 23rd, 2020 at 10:11 PM ^
Call the state's COVID-19 hotline and ask them about anonymous reporting possibilities: https://www.michigan.gov/coronavirus
March 23rd, 2020 at 10:23 PM ^
That's likely the best of all options, but hate to think it would come down to whichever state employee (who reaches out to management) being aware and discreet enough to keep it truly anonymous.
They shouldn't "reach out to management" if management is intentionally endangering public health by trying to defrauding the state. They should send police officers to shut the business and arrest management.
I'm not trying to cast aspersions on Harbaughnger's claims, but hopefully authorities would verify the accusation in some way before police come to arrest people and shut a business down. If not, we have bigger problems than COVID-19 in our country.
If the business shut down when it should have, there will be nobody there, and so the police will be quickly on their way without doing anything. But the way you verify an accusation is by investigating it, which is a pretty good thing for the police do, if you think about it.
I see your point. Out of curiosity, what would they charge someone with for violating a shut down order or for unnecessary travel? I have friends who've been issued letters from their employers to carry with them while commuting to their essential jobs. My city administrators are incompetent, so I have nothing to prove I need to be where I'm going. I'm not sure if they'll start pulling people over for driving at some point but it would be good to know.
March 23rd, 2020 at 10:18 PM ^
If you're in Michigan, I would message Attorney General Dana Nessel's office.
March 23rd, 2020 at 10:25 PM ^
Thanks- wouldn't have considered that- very much appreciated.
March 23rd, 2020 at 10:27 PM ^
Come on Putin, doesn’t that seem a bit harsh?
March 23rd, 2020 at 11:17 PM ^
This is not a time for half-measures, Brian.
March 23rd, 2020 at 10:33 PM ^
That's how you flatline...err, flatten the curve. :)
March 23rd, 2020 at 11:10 PM ^
Tried that in Detroit...the Lions lost everytime
This is a good reply. But, I mean, it was a softball chest high!
Boom. Thread over. You win the internet today, my friend.
March 24th, 2020 at 12:39 AM ^
You know when this is all over they'll only be able to find 490 of those lions.
March 23rd, 2020 at 10:33 PM ^
My company said the same thing, told us that we have to fucking come into work and they will give us the paperwork in case we get pulled over heading to work.
Flash forward to end of day and we have nothing to take to work.. just a total fucking joke.
Apparently our company thinks windows and siding are essential right now.
Even though literally every one of our major customers have officially closed so we get to sit around doing nothing for however long this lasts.
March 23rd, 2020 at 10:42 PM ^
Trying to imagine what I would even say to a police officer if I got pulled over.
"Why yes, those widgets are essential- this here signed note I got says so."
March 23rd, 2020 at 11:03 PM ^
You could be properly categorized as critical:
Q: Are people who repair homes considered critical infrastructure employees for the purposes of Executive Order 2020-21?
In general, yes. Under the order, critical infrastructure workers include workers “who provide services that are necessary to maintaining the safety, sanitation, and essential operation of residences.” To the extent your workers perform jobs that are necessary to the safety, sanitation, and operation of homes, they may be designated as critical infrastructure workers.
Main problem is that the executive order is ambiguous as hell.
March 23rd, 2020 at 11:39 PM ^
That is not ambiguous. Arizona's is better, but this is still clear.
My son works at a Subway inside a Loves Travel Plaza. He’s been giving an essential letter.
I’m an accountant at a manufacturing plant. I’ve been deemed an essential employee.
The point is a case could be made for the majority of us. The definition of an essential employee has pretty much turned into a joke.
I hear Whitmer will be staying home, since DeWine does her job for her.
March 23rd, 2020 at 11:13 PM ^
It’s like 20 degrees in NY. windows are essential.
March 23rd, 2020 at 11:12 PM ^
Taking a piss in their coffee is never a bad idea.
March 23rd, 2020 at 11:27 PM ^
If police in my area get a tip/complaint they will investigate, then contact local health department, who MAY forward the case on to state attorney general's office for prosecution/fines. Local Police in my area are making it clear they do not want to be the enforcers of this order and don't have the authority to issue citations to businesses. (As a citizen, blatantly disregarding the order in public will be a different story.)
Could contact any 1 of those 3 agencies.
But, have to ask - if career problems is your biggest concern - is closing down your employer your best play? Sounds like in either case its time to sharpen up your resume.
March 23rd, 2020 at 11:45 PM ^
Pretty good point but hope there'd be enough companies hiring to actually make a difference.
March 23rd, 2020 at 11:58 PM ^
Section 4b of the order is SUPER vague and is being interpreted by business owners desperate to keep their doors open to mean that they can continue to require critical staff (designated by the business owner) to come to work, so long as their work is necessary to keep the business viable and can't be done remotely.
I certainly didn't interpret it that way, but our President did, and I can understand his argument/willingness to risk it and play dumb so here we are. We're a distributor and there is ZERO argument that as an entity we are a critical business, but his thought is we will only have bare minimum, critical staff on site and he gave anyone who can only work on-site an option to stay home with pay (for now). We broke into teams and will only have 25% of our staff on site at any given time, with everyone ABLE to stay 30' or so away from each other. That being said it seems like it goes against the intent of the order and shipping non-critical packages right now just seems to fly in the face of what's right.
March 23rd, 2020 at 11:29 PM ^
Yeah my wife works at a retail store that is still open. No way it could be considered essential. Not sure what to do but this is a fucking joke.
March 24th, 2020 at 12:00 AM ^
Health Dept.
March 23rd, 2020 at 11:46 PM ^
You should verify that whatever industry that you are in is not legally protected as an essential service.
March 23rd, 2020 at 11:53 PM ^
My wife works in a courthouse. They have her coming in to work tomorrow. I mean, i get how it's essential for society in the big picture, but you would think we could survive them closing down the courts for awhile. Guess not.
March 24th, 2020 at 12:14 AM ^
You are complaining your employer is not going to lay you off? Be glad you are getting paid, follow the hygiene rules the best you can and stay away from old people.
I get some jobs can be done from home, but your employer doesn't feel yours is one of them.
"You are complaining your employer is not going to lay you off?"
Nope -- he didn't say that.
"Be glad you are getting paid ..."
Did he say he wasn't happy getting paid?
- - -
No one wants the economy to crash. You could make some good points without being an ass.
March 24th, 2020 at 11:28 AM ^
Not complaining at all, and certainly glad to be getting paid.
But some people have significantly higher risk life/family/health/work situations to think through very carefully before making seemingly minor decisions that could easily produce permanent consequences.
Bottom line: I want my job and want to keep getting paid just like everyone else, but not at the potential expense to my non-work situations.
In posting this topic, I was simply trying to get wisdom from a very intelligent group of people on how to prevent this scenario from coming to a head. I don't want to choose no job/paycheck, but I can guarantee I will if I have to.
March 24th, 2020 at 12:24 AM ^
yeah this is a good question. I know a corporate dentist office trying to stay open. 1. Hardly essential. 2. Why would patients even go to the dentist right now outside of a small amount of circumstances? 3. Why would you submit your employees to such risk and then all of their families, etc. Businesses everywhere about to be "essential"
March 24th, 2020 at 12:24 AM ^
I had to take a leave of absence from my retail sporting goods job because they refuse to shut down. They’re argument for being essential was that we sell propane (the extremely small tanks for camping stoves) and exercise equipment for people with high blood pressure. What is really going on is our company is seeing record sales this month because of ammo and firearm panic
Do what your manager says or quit.
My fortune 100 company lied in a memorandum to justify my site in the midwest to stay open. VP even signed it, even though what we make that would be critical/essential to stay open for, we have no open orders for that said product. Yay.
Why not sit down with management and tell them how you feel and the outcome you consider safe for you. I am sure they would appreciate that. Your Choices
A) Sit down with Management and share your views & thoughts constructively
B) Email The Attorney General -
C) Call the Police
D) Go to Social Media
E) Call an 1 800 Corona #
Treat your employer the way you would want to be treated and you may be amazed at the outcome.
March 24th, 2020 at 10:30 AM ^
Contacting the AG office is the thing. Link within:
The Mrs. is facing a similar situation. Some how her company was pegged as an essential service, and 90% of the corporate office was sent home with full pay during this shelter in place, except her dept They have to come in but work reduced hours (she's hourly).