Snap count and (lack of) adjustment at the line

Submitted by reshp1 on

A couple of things I noticed during the game that I thought were interesting and worth discussing:

1) There were zero adjustments at the line of scrimmage that I could discern. We would call the play in the huddle, line up, and run it. I never once saw either QB make any checks or get us out of bad plays. One play in particular that sticks out was the 2nd offensive play of the game where we pull the TE to the play side. Presnap, there was a safety that walked down outside that TE obviously going to blitz. There's no chance of that play being successful yet we ran it anyway, and lo the safety was unblocked and made the tackle in the backfield.

It wasn't just the QB. I didn't see a lot of protection adjustments by the OL either. Defenders would come down presnap, and there wasn't any pointing or communication between the OL. Sometimes they would adjust, other times they seemed to get caught with defenders overloaded to one side without sliding over, and let guys through unblocked as a result. 

Was this part of the "simplifying" we heard about? Or is it an artifact of Shea being relatively new to the offense still? Rudock and Speight earlier on also seemed to be kept from making checks at the line, if I recall correctly.

 

2) In shotgun, we went with a wonky way of calling for the snap. The QB would clap to get the center to look back between his legs, then point to the ground. The center would then get his head up and after a beat, snap the ball. 

I don't think I've ever seen a team do both methods, it's usually one or the other. This was fine for the most part but was infuriatingly slow in hurry up time. 

The other problem is it's really easy to time up the snap based on the center's head coming up. I don't think Michigan ever varied the timing or called for a fake snap to slow the defense down or try to get them to jump either. 

On a similar note, DCaf also had an annoying habit of starting to move back before the ball was snapped under center, again tipping the snap to the D. 

Hopefully we put some stuff in to address this. The OL needs all the help they can get and giving away a split second of reaction time advantage to the D doesn't seem like it's something we want to do. 

 

J_Dub

September 4th, 2018 at 10:54 AM ^

Were there any false starts in this game?  I was there and was pretty impressed with the lack of issues related to noise - especially for a first game.  It was pretty damn loud and I was in the "Michigan" section (half ND anyway).

reshp1

September 3rd, 2018 at 12:10 AM ^

If you care to look at my post history, I'm definitely in the optimist club. I'm just bringing up a couple concrete things I noticed for discussion. 

21runnin_WILD

September 3rd, 2018 at 12:12 AM ^

I think Jim needs to put more options out there for Shea. Give him the reins. Let him do what he does. I think (hope?) that will happen gradually as the season progresses.

When things get tight though, it seems like Jim still has the tendancy to turtle and play that same old conservative and predictable Lloyd-ball type stuff that is so easy to sniff out. My fiance was literally predicting what the playcall would be and was correct 90% of the time.... and she is just a casual observer. 

Every offense has a shelf life... ours has been LONG expired.

reshp1

September 3rd, 2018 at 12:21 AM ^

I actually thought the play calling and game plan were pretty decent. Lots of spread looks, quick hitters, roll outs, mixed in with some max protect and deep routes worked well for the passing game. The problem is Michigan isn't really equiped to run the ball out of that look, nor is that something this staff knows well, so you end up with two different offenses that don't really work off of each other.

I do think they could run Shea more out of the empty looks. Defense was pinning their ears back on those and thinking pass all the way. 

21runnin_WILD

September 3rd, 2018 at 12:27 AM ^

Word.

Another thing that interested me is that we’ve been hearing all offseason about how the new strength and conditioning program will pay dividends this year. Speed wasn’t sacrificed for strength gains... or so we were told.

Is it just me or did our skill position players look slow and lethargic? No burst after the catch, no exploding out of the hole. 

We looked like a Michigan team from the 1970s out there last night.

ST3

September 3rd, 2018 at 10:47 AM ^

We seem to have taken those reduced scholarships from the offensive line ranks. I want my line to consist of seniors and 5th year seniors. Maybe a junior or two if they are really good. Factor in a 50% hit rate on offensive linemen so I am looking for 17-18 scholarship OL. We seem to consistently have 12-13. 

It'sGreatToBe

September 3rd, 2018 at 9:39 AM ^

"Is it just me or did our skill position players look slow and lethargic? No burst after the catch, no exploding out of the hole. "

I didn't necessarily notice it from our skill players, although I wasn't watching particularly closely. However, the play where Bush was left flat footed and beaten to the edge while spying Wimbush on his 3rd-and-6 pickup immediately made me nervous that being at 240 was not actually going to help his game. Bush is slightly out of position, but from where Wimbush begins his scramble he manages to get the corner and advance about 12-13 yards before Long forces him into the sideline.

Maybe this isn't all that new and I'm forgetting other occurrences, but I don't recall seeing Bush losing a foot race to a mobile QB before.

Edit: Sorry if the .gif shows an ad. Hopefully you can click the x to close it out.

tnixon16

September 3rd, 2018 at 9:00 AM ^

Endorse: “When things get tight though, it seems like Jim still has the tendancy to turtle and play that same old conservative and predictable Lloyd-ball type stuff that is so easy to sniff out.”

All the razzle-dazzle stuff is brought out against Maryland and Rutgers, contrary to another poster’s hopes that we’re saving stuff for MSU and OSU.

 

Despair.

MaizeandBlueBleeder

September 3rd, 2018 at 12:41 AM ^

I saw numerous times where SP was frustrated because the snap was taking too long.  There were obviously issues with this whole sequence.  It boggles my mind because you would think all this would have been practiced many, many, many times in camp.

Wolverine91

September 3rd, 2018 at 12:49 AM ^

Guys its simple. It doesnt matter. We have senior tackles starting and they are hot garbage. This will not get fixed this year because we have no other options. Our other "options" are a freshman and a sophomore and i'm pretty sure that we shouldn't have high hopes for them this year. If runyan and JBB are starters now and beat out hudson and mayfield, what does that say about those two. Not good at all either. Sorry but this season hinges on OL play and it is STILL bad.

stephenrjking

September 3rd, 2018 at 1:16 AM ^

Yes, the tackles are a problem, as I have stated frequently on the board. 

But this is a post about a technical aspect of football, discussing Michigan's unique (never before seen here) snap count process, and how that may or may not have affected team performance. The poster is smart and it's a worthwhile discussion. I agree the tackles are the achilles heel of the team, but there are lots of other things worth discussing as well. 

stephenrjking

September 3rd, 2018 at 1:14 AM ^

My impression, watching live, was that the snap count was specifically designed to give time to both Shea and the line to read the defense. Shea would read, he would clap, Ruiz would look down, hand, snap. There seemed to be deliberate time built in to force the defense to tip; whether that worked or not, I don't know. 

There were occasionally odd clap arrangements. It's not clear to me if that was a deliberate obfuscation, or the QB simply repeating the "clap" because it wasn't heard the first time. 

There were occasions of OL pointing to discuss assignments, but that seemed rare. What we don't know is what verbal communication was occurring amongst them, if any. 

Honestly, I thought it worked pretty well for most of the game, until they had to do it at speed and it bled three or so seconds off of every play at the end of the game. The team was pretty much always lined up in time to read the D and to go through the process. There was never any confusion about snap counts or misheard signals. It just took a bit longer than you expect for what looked very much like a "tempo" offense for large parts of the game.

BTW, regarding that annoying huddle with 4 minutes to go: Someone can correct me if my memory is bad, but I thought they huddled because Shea was coming back in the game for McCaffrey. I don't like using the time, but it's possible they wanted to change/update the plan with the starter back in. 

Indy Pete - Go Blue

September 3rd, 2018 at 1:36 AM ^

It is worth pointing out that we had zero false starts - not bad for a new QB, a new center, and a new left tackle.  (The delay of game, and only delay of the game, as the first play from scrimmage after half was a bit embarrassing, but was rapidly erased by a 50 yard bomb to neat Nico Collins).

Mineral King acquitted himself well considering the 3 hr fire drill he was exposed to. 

Exumablu

September 3rd, 2018 at 5:15 AM ^

If the Tackle situation gets figured out. We will be a team, no one wants to play and we might get a rematch w ND in the CFP. Hoping the very experienced and knowledgeable coaches figure it out soon! If not, JUST BEAT OSU!!!

M-Dog

September 3rd, 2018 at 12:29 PM ^

I'm not sure there is anything to figure out.

I watched Runyan closely throughout the game and he was getting worked.  He physically could not keep up.  He does not have the talent to play that position.  It is what it is.

Like a 5'2'' DB, there is only so much you can do when you are facing that kind of physical limitation.

JTrain

September 3rd, 2018 at 7:31 AM ^

Yes. Someone (skene on Twitter?) brought a similar point up. When they are showing blitz go with a good hard count to see if they are really coming or going to back off. It may not always work but you at least have to play the cat n mouse game. Give your line every chance you can to make the right call before the ball is snapped. 

Aspyr

September 3rd, 2018 at 7:32 AM ^

Prob not with a new QB. I remember someone asking Harbaugh or another coach about this in the past and he doesn't seem to be big on QBs calling audibles - that could also be that he doesn't trust the QBs he has had.

I do believe this is something that really holds back our offense. If you are brave enough to watch clips from the ND game watch the third play (3 & 10) of the 1st quarter. We show blitz and the ND WR raises his hand. Wimbush looks over and the play or at least that WR route is changed.

Les Miles

September 3rd, 2018 at 8:15 AM ^

Why is Ruiz doing that damn head bob again right before the snap. You know where your qb is dude... that bob is so easy to time because he snaps it right after he does it every freaking time  

reshp1

September 3rd, 2018 at 10:24 AM ^

I'm trying to say this in the nicest way possible, but did you even watch the game? They went 5 wide, read options, bubble screens, slants, designed rollouts, etc. Pretty much everything you'd want to mitigate a questionable OL and take advantage of a mobile(ish) QB, they did. Yeah, they still ran out of 22 personnel sometimes, but that's also Michigan's bread and butter on the ground and set up the long passes off of play action. If anything it was too varied and they never established any one thing they could counter off of later, except the previously mentioned play action. 

Vote_Crisler_1937

September 3rd, 2018 at 9:33 AM ^

I thought the clapping and hand waiving were ways to throw off the ND front 7. Basically if you change which one the center snaps on - sometimes a clap sometimes a hand waive etc the defense can’t jump the snap as we saw MSU do a few years ago each time the center put his head down. 

I thought I saw line calls as well. When the play clock was running down and Shea was clapping excitedly for the snap it was because Ruiz was still checking the line into a call. Maybe I’m wrong though. I don’t know that much about football. 

Billy

September 3rd, 2018 at 11:26 AM ^

Very well stated.  Every team has tendencies.  If these tendencies are not fixed it really gives good, observant football coaches / players a huge advantage pre and post snap.

 

Take the snap count for instance.  You already have a defense that is thrashing through the OL consistently.  Not changing our snap count, or the delay from head bob to snap is not intelligent or innovative coaching.