Serena Williams Bows Out
Took some time tonight from football to watch the final set of Serena William’s last professional match at the US Open before retiring. She lost 7-5, 5-7, 6-1. There are not many moments in life one gets to see Babe Ruth’s last at bat,
Best tennis player of our era, man or woman. absolute legend.
September 2nd, 2022 at 10:43 PM ^
Simply the best.
September 2nd, 2022 at 10:44 PM ^
That final game was legendary.
September 2nd, 2022 at 10:48 PM ^
Incredible. Staved off match point again and again. Fitting way to go out.
September 2nd, 2022 at 10:58 PM ^
One of the commentators mentioned that her legend was even growing when down 5-1, and he was absolutely right. Amazing to watch!
And as much as I dislike the 4-letter network, I give them great credit for how little they said during the last set and especially the last game. The crowd reactions and the sound of the game itself were enough and perfect.
September 3rd, 2022 at 10:58 AM ^
Agreed. I noticed that too. The silence from the talking heads was quite appropriate
September 2nd, 2022 at 10:47 PM ^
So she could beat Rafael Nadal?
September 2nd, 2022 at 11:16 PM ^
What we doin here?
September 3rd, 2022 at 12:00 AM ^
Nothing more than pointing out absurd statements. I like Serena and I congratulate her on a fantastic, legendary career. At the same time, calling her the best player ever, man or woman, is absurd. I wouldn’t have said anything if the op had stated “best tennis player ever”. The OP is the one that went the extra mile and said “man or woman”. Truth is neither offensive nor sexist. It just is what it is. What i said has nothing to do with Serena herself and has everything to do with the OP’s ridiculous statement.
September 3rd, 2022 at 1:23 AM ^
I didn't really read much into the last few words typed out. I got the drift. It's the internet. Sometimes in real-life we utter something at the end of a statement to help convey something but it was most likely unnecessary but our brains and mouths couldn't help it and we kind of just expect the other party didnt hear, ignored, or just went meh.
But some of us are robots, too.
September 3rd, 2022 at 8:20 AM ^
I also reject absurd statements. Beep boop.
September 3rd, 2022 at 10:45 AM ^
Like people saying "Literally" at the end of some dumbass hyperbolic lie when they absolutely meant it NOT literally? Communication and civility are both nosediving with Internet anonymity.
September 3rd, 2022 at 11:00 AM ^
That’s just another word that has been misused so often that the definition has changed to accommodate the catachresis
September 2nd, 2022 at 11:18 PM ^
She has 23 GS singles titles to Nadal’s 22. She also has 14 GS doubles titles to Nadal’s 0. Look, I’m not calling you sexist, but your Jordan Peterson logic would say the best featherweight fighter of all time is worse than a middling heavyweight.
September 2nd, 2022 at 11:45 PM ^
She is also 40 and a mother. She had an incredible career. Great athlete.
September 2nd, 2022 at 11:46 PM ^
Wait, what? JP logic? So Serena = best featherweight fighter of all time? And Nadal = middling heavyweight?
I definitely need more of whatever people are drinking tonight (wrong thread?).
September 2nd, 2022 at 11:46 PM ^
I’m not the one the said best ever man or woman. Pointing out absurdity of a statement is apparently sexist.
September 3rd, 2022 at 12:22 AM ^
I see what you are doing here
September 3rd, 2022 at 6:42 AM ^
But…what if Nadal went through a sex change procedure? Who would be the best then?
There’s an incredible fascination with the “GOAT” discussion - or the “all-time” greatest teams. And, IMO, those tend to be skewed to the current day / more recent period. (And, this isn’t a knock against Serena - who, IMO, deserves the accolades - and, certainly the most dominant female player of her era,)
When the best NFL QB’s comes up for discussion - how often are Johnny Unitas, Len Dawson, Bart Starr, or Roger Staubach part of the conversation?
It’s the sensationalism of the media - in every topic of discussion.
Who would be the “best” if they still used wooden rackets?
There are a number of women’s names that have been discussed - and, it seems to me that women’s tennis is “wide open” without a single, or few, stronger players. The men? I wonder what happens after Nadal and Joker reach the end of their careers. I don’t know if there’s anyone on the men’s side to carry the mantle.
September 3rd, 2022 at 6:43 AM ^
i suspect you’d have said the same thing if they’d simply called her “the best ever” and stopped there.
September 3rd, 2022 at 6:52 AM ^
Matty - I enjoyed the match last night - she was extremely resilient - fought hard - etc., and had a great career
Is Serena better than Martina or Steffi? Who would win if they met on the court with each player “in their prime” or “at their best”? I don’t know - and, candidly, I don’t really care - it can be an entertaining discussion. I think enjoying the moment is essential.
What has changed - evolved - in sport - over the years. Everything or almost everything. S&C Training, nutrition, equipment, manufacturing (the consistency of the equipment), psychology, and the attention paid by the media.
If you follow women’s tennis - and had a Mount Rushmore - Serena would be on it - no question about it, as would a few others. It will be sorry to see her retire - and, I wish her well.
September 3rd, 2022 at 11:55 AM ^
She was a fabulous tennis player. Period. Stop the stupid gender comparisons.
September 2nd, 2022 at 11:54 PM ^
Greatest *womens* player of all time but does that really need to be said? No rational person is making an argument that she beats Fed, Rafa, Joker head to head.
September 3rd, 2022 at 12:37 AM ^
I'll stick with Navratilova, who won 18 major singles titles, 31 major women's doubles titles, and 10 major mixed doubles titles, for a combined total of 59 major titles, the most in the Open Era, and was ranked as the world No. 1 in singles for a total of 332 weeks (second only to Steffi Graf), and for a record 237 weeks in doubles, making her the only player in history to have held the top spot in both disciplines for over 200 weeks. She reached the Wimbledon singles final 12 times, including for nine consecutive years from 1982 through 1990, and won the title a record nine times.
In addition, she won her last major title, the mixed doubles crown at the 2006 US Open, shortly before her 50th birthday, and 32 years after her first major title in 1974.
All this while having to compete against Chris Evert, Steffi Graf, Billie Jean King, Monica Seles, and many more of the best players of all time.
If you want to claim Serena as champion, that's fine. But it's hardly a no-brainer.
September 3rd, 2022 at 1:33 AM ^
Serena Williams would crush Martina Navritalova to clay pulp. Generational gap so maybe not fair. Navritalova was pretty great, yes.
September 3rd, 2022 at 1:43 AM ^
Maybe...I mean how would you or anyone else know? Besides the comment 'greatest' can mean more that simply 'who I think would win head to head'...Many call Ali 'The Greatest' but then some argue that other boxers were better. Same across sports...and in life.
So, what's your real issue...why muck up the tribute?
September 3rd, 2022 at 7:47 AM ^
quit drinking and go to bed you fragile little man
September 2nd, 2022 at 10:54 PM ^
I was flipping around and caught that last game. DAMN, that was epic. She just refused to die. One of the best single games of tennis I've ever seen.
September 2nd, 2022 at 11:01 PM ^
Turning away 5 match points and going to 8 deuces in that situation and in that setting - that certainly qualifies as epic!
September 2nd, 2022 at 10:59 PM ^
One of the most remarkable careers of any athlete ever. The way she was able to train, prepare, and compete at the highest level for 2+ decades is basically unheard of.
Not sure we will see another athlete with the discipline to train her body throughout teenage, young adult, and middle adulthood the way Serena has. She is one of a kind
September 3rd, 2022 at 12:09 AM ^
Congratulations on saying the correct and true thing which gives Serena her appropriate due instead of the false and stupid thing which actually diminishes her accomplishments (because it opens the door to "nuh uh she couldn't beat rafa" (which is true!)) that the op said.
September 2nd, 2022 at 11:03 PM ^
Glad I got to watch her over the years
September 2nd, 2022 at 11:11 PM ^
Serena won five of six slams over a period from 2002-03.
Serena won six of ten slams (made finals in eight of those ten) over a period from 2014-17.
The gap between the two runs of dominance, ~13 years, was longer than the entire career of competitor Justine Henin.
The gap between her first and last slam, 18 years from 1999-2017, was the same length as Steffi Graf's entire career.
About all you need to know
September 2nd, 2022 at 11:48 PM ^
Well, not *all* you need to know, surely. But damned impressive. Length of career -- length of career at that high a level -- is damned impressive!
September 3rd, 2022 at 7:42 AM ^
Crazy that Graf was able to accomplish more in that much of a shorter period.
September 3rd, 2022 at 11:23 AM ^
As great as Graf was, I've always wondered how different things would have been if Seles hadn't been stabbed.
September 2nd, 2022 at 11:15 PM ^
It was an amazing match and (short) run in the tournament, no doubt. But Federer, Nadal, and Djokovic would like to have a word with you about her being "the best tennis player of our era."
Not to mention Navratilova, who may be in a different era for you young bucks, but for my money is the best women's player of all time, and Pete Sampras, who was her equal on the men's side.
Winning so many Grand Slams when there's no legitimate No. 2 makes it awfully difficult to evaluate how good you are. Evert had Navratilova (and King, and Court, and Graf), Graf had Sanchez-Vicario, and Seles, and Davenport. Who did Serena have to beat? Sharapova? Halep? Hell, she played once against Ash Barty.
September 2nd, 2022 at 11:22 PM ^
I think that's why it's good to preface these types of statements with "arguably". I always wonder why the men's side seems to have forgotten all about Pete Sampras, when they talk about the three men you mentioned in the "best ever" category. Regardless, it's a fun debate, especially when you start comparing the different eras.
September 3rd, 2022 at 12:01 AM ^
I think Grand Slam titles is the universal standard that should be used.
Serena has been the most dominant woman’s tennis player of all time IMHO and Slam titles back that up.
likewise for the Big 3, most Grand Slam titles in Mens tennis history. Tough to pick one that stands out above the rest.
September 3rd, 2022 at 3:49 PM ^
By that definition, Margaret Court - with 24 Grand Slams - is the greatest of all time.
September 3rd, 2022 at 1:08 AM ^
Fair post - I have been annoyed a bit over the years how the comment “Serena is the greatest womens tennis player of all time, PERIOD” gets bandied about.
Steffi and Martina have at least a seat at that discussion. I won’t re-present the often talked about facts here, but it is legitimately debatable.
Then as well ………. Seles. She isn’t in the discussion as life stands but is the subject of what is perhaps the biggest “what if?” question in tennis history. She was SO good prior to April 1993, and still yet a teenager …….
September 3rd, 2022 at 2:46 AM ^
Martina Hingis won 5 Grand Slam singles titles. Venus Williams (7), Justine Henin (7), Kim Clijsters (4), and Jennifer Capriati (3) were not exactly chopped liver in Serena's era. I also think Maria Sharapova gets short shrift and sort of lumped in with Kournikova, both for their looks, but Sharapova won 5 Grand Slams and was actually a really good player.
Margaret Court was just about finished (won her final singles Grand Slam in 1973) when Navratilova broke through in the mid/late-1970s (won her first singles Grand Slam in 1978). Billie Jean King was also waning (final singles Grand Slam in 1975) as Navratilova was ascending. Navratilova vs Evert is probably the greatest women's tennis rivalry ever, though. Navratilova-Graf was also quite good in the 1980s.
I wonder how many more really good women's players would've broken through if not for the Williams sisters dominating the sport for like 20 years? We'll never know. I don't think you can go wrong picking either Serena Williams or Martina Navratilova (or Steffi Graf/Margaret Court, for that matter) as your GOAT, but I don't think the "era rivalries" argument holds water here.
September 3rd, 2022 at 7:58 AM ^
I mean Federer who is easily the most decorated mens player said she was the GOAT so what are you even out here caping for exactly? Did you really need to well actually this?
September 3rd, 2022 at 9:21 AM ^
Nobody - Federer has been my favorite player for at least a decade.
Nothing against Serena - but, in this situation - the US tennis community in full attendance - what is he (Federer) going to say?
And, who else would they ask… Joker? Nadal?
The one difference with these last few matches is - how visible it was. I can’t recall a reaction like this from an audience. But, then again, I can’t recall the last time a tennis player announced their retirement prior to a tournament.
September 2nd, 2022 at 11:20 PM ^
Epic match. Serena was completely out of gas at the end but she gutted it out, over and over and over. She could barley move, but she would not quit.
Also, hats off to Tomljanovic for her nerves of steel. The entire stadium was against her (more like for Serena in fairness) and they jumped on her every mistake. But she mitigated that . . . by simply not making any mistakes under pressure. She gave away nothing.
Impressive performances for both.
September 2nd, 2022 at 11:31 PM ^
Unranked 40yr old beat the 2 seed a couple nights ago. To get to tonight.
So, Stat of the Day material (credit Mike Schur via Lebatard Show, via Tim Reynolds):
When Serena won her first US Open match, in 1998:
Greg Popovich was 106th on the all-time wins list.
LeBron James was not yet in high school.
Tim Duncan was the reigning Rookie of the Year
...and Tom Brady, had not yet thrown a TD pass....for Michigan.
September 3rd, 2022 at 2:01 AM ^
Damn, I wish she hadn't played that doubles match yesterday. I think this match would've gone differently with a rest day in between singles matches.
Up 5-3 in the 1st set and 4-0 in the 2nd set, but Serena was hitting into the net way too much. Gassed. Legs not doing what she wanted/needed them to do. There were several points where her movement was to the point she didn't really try, which was a big contrast to the Kontaveit match 2 nights ago. A 3-hour match after playing 3 straight days just a bridge too far. When she was roaring and smashing the shit out of the ball, she got on a run but it was patchy. Otherwise, Tomljanovic was simply too consistent. Machine-like. Good angles, line shots, and great fitness. Tomljanovic never looked a bit tired despite the match going a bit over 3 hours.
Have to say I'm not a fan of the crowd cheering service faults, but it's their money so I guess they can do whatever. I don't think it was just a Friday night crowd thing, either, because it happened in Serena's first round match also. Didn't notice it as much vs Kontaveit. At least the crowd was pretty gracious cheering Tomljanovic in the post-match interview.
September 3rd, 2022 at 2:29 AM ^
ESPN is a joke yall
September 3rd, 2022 at 3:09 AM ^
Serena's face and body changed a lot from the beginning of her career. Likely using HGH or steroids.
"Best player man or woman"
Remember when that dude schooled her and Venus while boozing and smoking cigs?
Alright mgobros, shower me with negs and call me a misogynist. I love you guys.
September 3rd, 2022 at 11:09 AM ^
Any and all of the negs you get will be well-deserved.