SEC [1-5] slappy criticism hyperbole or valid?
SEC fans get a lot of ribbing from other fanbases and if you ever wondered if it's justified please look at this small sampling from the Knoxville News Sentinel:
Choice quotations:
So how much does Tennessee care about beating Purdue in the TransPerfect Music City Bowl?
The SEC has a 0-4 record in bowls, putting a brief stain on the best conference in college football.
There’s an argument that SEC teams are losing because bowls are less important to them than their non-SEC opponents. Texas Tech is the only winner over an SEC team so far from a Power Five conference. (note: this should be even more embarrassing tbh)
When it’s SEC vs. Big Ten, it usually means more.
December 31st, 2021 at 10:47 AM ^
FWIW, strength of schedule rankings have changed with the B1G success and SEC failure. Bama and UM are now 20&21, Georgia is 37.
We entered bowl season with Bama 7 and UM/Georgia in the low 30s
December 31st, 2021 at 1:18 PM ^
What I got out of that was it matters more to the SEC except when they lose and then it apparently really didn't matter much at all.
How convenient.
December 31st, 2021 at 4:23 PM ^
Exactly and if they were 6-0 right now they would be gloating about it. Love seeing that conference get beat
December 31st, 2021 at 10:58 AM ^
I watched enough SEC games this year to know the conference stank. Big Ten East was by far the best division in football. If the West could play QB at all it would have been more obvious.
December 31st, 2021 at 11:03 AM ^
If Tennessee isn't motivated when they only have had three better seasons in the last 14 years...
December 31st, 2021 at 11:04 AM ^
"It just means more"
Until they actually have to play OOC?
December 31st, 2021 at 11:05 AM ^
Between playing 8 conference games and the November bye, the SEC schedule would be much weaker all things equal.
Not sure why those don’t get talked about by ESPN more….well, I guess I can thing of one reason.
December 31st, 2021 at 11:15 AM ^
I would argue in that Purdue vs Tennessee game that the boilermakers were down more impactful players. Their best player on offense, Bell and on D Karlaftis.
I was surprised Purdue won with what it seemed like they were missing
December 31st, 2021 at 12:40 PM ^
The Purdue receiver corp was decimated and those playing were hobbling the entire game.
December 31st, 2021 at 11:16 AM ^
I’ve never understood how the entire SEC fan base revels in the success of one team (AL). Is it a relic from the civil war, inbreeding, or what?
December 31st, 2021 at 12:27 PM ^
The Civil War does play a part. At least if you believe the SEC historians.The trauma of defeat in war is very real and can manifest itself in unexpected ways.
*The South was rightfully defeated.This isn’t me doing some Lost Cause bullshit. I am just pointing out that war has an lasting effect on those impacted by it.
December 31st, 2021 at 11:17 AM ^
I’m a little surprised by their overall record, but I think most people agree that the conference was basically 2 awesome teams and then everybody else.
December 31st, 2021 at 12:28 PM ^
1 and 1/2 awesome teams.
Fixed it.
December 31st, 2021 at 11:21 AM ^
If they win both games today nobody will care about their record
December 31st, 2021 at 11:23 AM ^
In my opinion, the SEC is overrated this year. If Michigan can execute at a high level, they will win these next two games.
December 31st, 2021 at 11:24 AM ^
Between COVID impacts, opt outs, backups fleeing to the portal, and the randomness of playing a game against whatever mismatched opponent after a month off these games are all pretty meaningless. I tuned in for the slight schadenfreude solace of a Sparty football loss after watching our bball trainwreck last night, and instead I get a 3rd string Pitt QB throwing an INT to an MSU team w/o their 1600 yard rusher. None of it means anything, which is very #2021 I guess. Clearly the SEC is top heavy and quite meh past AL/GA but these games have depth impacts from COVID and the portal that result in different rosters than the regular season. Top end draft talent is not playing so the whole bowl record angle is neither here nor there.
December 31st, 2021 at 12:13 PM ^
It doesn't mean 'nothing' just because Seattle Wolverine says it means nothing. Even if people misread the signs and portents completely, as long as bodies of opinion form around what takes place it means something. Meaning isn't dependent upont 'truth.'
And the fact that mid-rank teams from other conferences are absolutely on a par with SEC teams means LOTS when the SEC is in the midst of a power play that would make them infinitely richer and sideline lots of other schools and conferences. That, in my view, is what should come out of this--the other conferences, esp. P5 conferences, telling Greg Sankey and his mediocre universities to slow the f down and shut the f up.
What I'd also like to see someone with half a set of balls at The Athletic do is take a hard look at bowl results of the last few years and draw what I would expect is the fairly damning inference--it's been big One and mid-sized eleven for some time now.
December 31st, 2021 at 1:22 PM ^
There are recruits RIGHT NOW looking at these games and making decisions about what kind of talent they are going to practice with and play for and against.
Even if you listen to the media narrative, I get the NFL sit-outs, but I think it says a lot that these coaches cant get these guys to care enough to use these games as next years practice, or to care about their last game literally EVER. What does it say that some teams are using this as a chance to grow and some teams are blowing it off? (Tortoise and the hare)
Or, and yes it does matter, that the B1G wins their games.
People like to completely ignore that we were in consideration for a playoff spot in 2016 after losing to OSU entirely because OSU wins in the post season. Or that we were in consideration late in 2018, again, because of OSU. Recruits deciding between schools literally heard in the media that we were close to being in the playoffs, and if OSU hadnt won an NC just a few years before they wouldn't have heard that, they would've heard a WORSE narrative.
How much better does our 1 loss so far look to an MSU that just won out of conference vs if MSU had lost?
What about the fact that MSUs only loss to not OSU was Purdue? Who just won their bowl game against an SEC team?
To think that at least SOME recruits, fans, media, donors, and other people of influence on the sport dont care about this to the point that it SHOULD matter seems a little close minded to me.
If the SEC isnt taking this seriously it will be to their detriment when they end up being stuck top heavy while the B1G and Pac-12 surge back into prominence. And it might be to their downfall when Nick Saban finally retires or loses his touch.
December 31st, 2021 at 4:16 PM ^
I think your logic is faulty--those guys aren't skipping the bowls because they don't care; they're doing it because getting injured could jeopardize their careers and livelihoods. Betcha big money that a lot of them feel shitty about it.
December 31st, 2021 at 1:28 PM ^
My comment was on the broad inferences based on the trees, not the forest. If you want to argue that over a long span of time and across many OOC, CFP, bowl games etc the SEC may be overhyped and that the conference's strength is really more of a reflection of Alabama being the dominant team of the last ~13 years (perhaps with a sprinkling of Kirby era GA thrown in) I would tend to agree.
That conclusion based on a larger more meaningful volume of football games does not change the fact that drawing conclusions based on six bowl games where rosters of most bowl teams are in disarray due to COVID, opt outs, portal etc is not a good way to analyze the SEC. Or the B1G or any other conference for that matter. Similarly, I don't think that for example the fact the Big 12 had the best bowl record in 2020 proves in some way they were underrated and a deep conference.
The argument stands on its own, the fact that you or I say so or don't doesn't matter. Not sure why you are choosing to be pissy because I have a different opinion? But anyway, have a nice new year and Go Blue!
December 31st, 2021 at 11:25 AM ^
The Big Ten is picked to go 1-4 in remaining games for what it is worth.
I didnt check the SEC expectations, but we know Georgia, Alabama, and Arkansas are all favored...so at least 3 wins projected.
Definitely the SEC won't end with a dominating record and the Big Ten won't have a terrible record with current results in, but very hopeful the Big Ten (especially Michigan) can continue to dominate so we have a stronger narrative in the coming days.
Highest ranked teams are ahead.
December 31st, 2021 at 11:27 AM ^
I love it.
But I've always thought measuring conference strength from bowls or through the NCAA tournament...was overrated.
So I've got to be consistent.
It's about matchups, with bowls there are opt outs, there's more to look at than just the result. Which sounds weird. But the result is a reflection of the two teams more than it is the entire conference, IMO.
December 31st, 2021 at 11:39 AM ^
The dirty secret is that analytics is fundamentally a small sample domain with too many closed loop sets, i.e. conference schedules. So, against mediocre conference opponents, Bama and Georgia shine. The SEC 1-5 bowl record serves to establish just how mediocre the balance of the SEC really is. Today’s games will be the first real measure of Bama and Georgia. Fuck ‘em both.
December 31st, 2021 at 11:56 AM ^
So season long analytics are flawed due to small sample sized constraints and limited conference interactions. Alright. The SEC would play ~56 OOC games since 14 teams x 4 OOC opponents. And the limitations of this modeling of SEC quality based on the insufficient data of 56 games plus conference play is demonstrated by a poor SEC record in a sample of 6 bowl games?
December 31st, 2021 at 1:25 PM ^
Oh yeah sure, great point until you really analyze the quality or lack thereof of way too many of those 56 opponents.
December 31st, 2021 at 1:34 PM ^
Sure, majority of those games are against group of 5 teams but with margins of victory and even getting into the drive or play metrics etc you can build out interconnected data. I mean, there may be an argument that sample sizes aren't particularly meaningful in college football and it's a weakness of analytics. I'm not sure if that is the case. But you can't make that argument and then flip it around and say "The SEC 1-5 bowl record serves to establish just how mediocre the balance of the SEC really is." thereby using a vastly smaller sample and claiming those outcomes are the proof the larger sample is too small.
December 31st, 2021 at 11:46 AM ^
So - if someone finds themselves rooting for Rutgers over Wake Forest for inexplicable reasons - is this extending the conference umbrella somewhere where it doesn't belong? Asking for a friend.
December 31st, 2021 at 11:53 AM ^
With a 4 team playoff, no conference should get more than 1 team. Ever.
December 31st, 2021 at 12:22 PM ^
You shouldn’t be in the playoff if you can’t win your conference. This shouldn’t be a controversial viewpoint.
December 31st, 2021 at 2:42 PM ^
I think the 4 best teams should go and I dont think conference champions are always better than non-conference champions.
But rather Id see the playoff expanded to account for the potential of your conference being overrated. Conference champs and a few at large.
December 31st, 2021 at 12:29 PM ^
There should not be a 4 team playoff.
December 31st, 2021 at 12:18 PM ^
I don't put any stock into this as it relates to the Orange Bowl. Even before bowl season we knew this wasn't a vintage SEC year, and people we questioning Georgia's sos. But come on. The Dawgs absolutely laid waste to the non-Bama portion of their schedule, and were getting everyone's best shot. I personally think the relatively weakness of this years SEC contributed to Georgia getting over-hyped, but would say their performance absolutely justifies being a 6-7 point favorite in this game.
December 31st, 2021 at 12:48 PM ^
This just proves more why Michigan needs to squash the narrative….surely winning a CFP game means something even to the idiot sports writers
December 31st, 2021 at 12:57 PM ^
The SEC is generally the best conference teams 1-7, but the bottom end is highly variable. They also get basically everyone bowl eligible by only playing 8 conference games and scheduling an extra non conference cupcake. A lot of the teams that have played so far are not the best in conference, so I’m not that surprised they stated 1-5. In the end, if Bama or UGA wins it all, does the rest of their conference record matter much?
December 31st, 2021 at 3:23 PM ^
Disagree it's best 1-7. Maybe it depends on how you define best, but the 4th best team in B1G west is better than the 3rd best team in SEC East.
I'd value conference strength by looking at the middle 20-80th percentiles. A top heavy conference isn't the best by that metric. Some years it will be the SEC, some years other conferences.
A bowl record is not necessarily indicative of conference strength, but does bring out the hypocritical apologists.
"They would have won, but didn't want to be there."
Ball players like to play ball and winners like to win. The notion a mid level SEC team would be undefeated or with only 1-2 losses in another conference, but couldn't get up for a game, only means said team is soft, and would have a comparable middling record in any of the P5 conferences on average.
December 31st, 2021 at 4:09 PM ^
Yeah that is why I said “generally” which still is obviously a very unpopular opinion around here. They’re not the best 1-7 every year, but I think they are most years. Do they get the benefit of the doubt in preseason rankings that generally overrates the conference? Sure.
You can come up with whatever definition you want for “best conference” but they are the only conference to put multiple teams in the playoffs in the same year and they’ve done it multiple years. They’ve also had 4 different teams play for or win a National Championship in recent history.
December 31st, 2021 at 1:16 PM ^
Best part is the years when the SEC bowl record is awesome, they just cite it as proof of the conference's superiority.
Look, the SEC has an earned rep in football and its fans are obnoxious, neither fact is going to change anytime soon despite the copium being administered on both sides.
December 31st, 2021 at 5:22 PM ^
I don’t give a shit about conference pride for the most part, but seeing the SEC and it’s legions of mouth breathing rednecks who use their conference to push the idea of the south being the greatest getting their shit vigorously pushed in always brings a smile to me.
Its even more obnoxious because when Alabama/LSU win, they all think they won. It’s basically Alabama and one of LSU/Georgia/Florida every year, and the other 12 teams are average at best.