Recruiting concerns.
There is an elephant in the room. We dance around it and it's time to stop. We don't have the proper athletic talent at our 4 and 5 spots. We try and win with middling talent in the paint and stretch 4 and 5s!?!?! This is not going to work for this program in my opinion. The Center for SMU had 8 dunks tonight. 8! That's absolutely a result of inadequate recruiting and coaching in the paint. We have som great wing players but we sorely lack in the paint. We are one of the worst rebounding teams in the B1G year in and year out and have to shoot extremely well to win. Connecticut ..Xavier and SMU all featured athletic front lines and all 3 embarrassed us badly. Many will think we lost tonight because Caris shot miserably. We lost because we have guys playing in the paint that simply can't get it done. It's very similar to our line backing core down the stretch. The level of athleticism simply isn't there to compete on an elite level.
The Xavier game sticKS out most because that Center was from Detroit....and he manhandled us. We have 3 players at the 5 spot that are not physically able to compete on an elite level. Moritz may get there and has talent and youth on his side. He may turn out to be an exception and is very likeable. The other 2 just have not progressed and are assuredly great kids...but not effective simply put. Why does DJ Wilson not play? He's by far the best athlete and plays the least. It's a head scratcher for me because his ceiling suggests that he'd be worth the invested minutes. He gets scrap minutes...and is our best athlete in the paint. This wouldn't be as troubling if there wasn't more of the same coming down the pipe in recrutiing. We still don't have an athletic big coming in for the next 2 classes and Beilein seems to be willing to settle with this. This is simply upsettling. Webber...Howard....Baston....Taylor...Trayor......hell even Courtney Sims and J. Morgan! Where are our athletic bigs these days? It sure seems like everyone else has them. We used to have them and we've gotten completely away from it.
You do NOT win without athletes in the paint. Simple and plain. The notion that we can shoot our way around it or hit on one single big recruit (Mitch) in a 4 year span is absolute rubbish. Something needs to change. Michigan used have some of the most dynamic athletes in the country in the paint and until we get back to that it's just going to be hard to stomach. We need to recruit Detroit for starters and play our athletes. We can continue to avoid this elephant and make excuses as to why we are consistently losing to physical front lines...or we can adapt and change. We are not going to win without help in the middle. 8 damn dunks from one player.....that's not even pride. If Bacari is in charge of the bigs....then he needs to be held responsible because it's awful. Youth is something everyone plays with and isn't an excuse.
Recruit Detroit please...or at least fight like hell to do so. Tired of seeing homegrown talent go elsewhere and us running to the damn burbs to grab underrated kids who don't play with the same explosiveness and passion. Enough is enough. Your 5s don't need to be able to knock down 20 foot jumpers. That's horse crap. Get some dogs in the paint. We look straight up soft right now and thats the worst thing to look like.
December 9th, 2015 at 1:25 AM ^
Ban wagon? Uh no....been on this train since i learned to dribble a ball in 88'. Changes are needed in the way we recruit and if you can't see that i don't know what to tell you. We miss on nearly every big name target and have to settle for 2nd and 3rd options. Why is that? Michigan has more money and ammenities than nearly all of the competition. Recent success....Jordan Brand on the Horizon...which matters to young people as crazy as it sounds to some. Why is it we cannot recruit elite talent? There is an issue with what we are doing. Does Beilien do a great job of developing wings? Absolutley and he may be the very best at this. That's not where were getting killed.......that would be in the paint. Beilein's teams do NOT rebound the basketball and its an issue every year. That needs to be addressed aggressively in recruiting.....and it isnt. Your bigs don't need to be able to shoot the basketball past 15 feet. Their asses should be in the paint geting ORBs and keeping possessions alive. How is it we can't at least field a Jordan Morgan or two on our team at all times. Why is it Diamond Stone goes to Maryland and not Michigan....or Swanigan to Purdue? Why not Bridges or Jackson to Michigan? Why Bluiett to Xavier and Brown to Cal? Why did Battle decommit? There is too many misses for this to be coincidental. It's as if we feel that we can win without elite athleticism.....well newsflash....
The Burkes and Stauskas of the world are few and far between. Levert is a tremendous example of great coaching and unearthed talent. There is no excuse for our lack of talent in the paint and frequent misses on the recruiting trail. Michigan should get the very best athletes. Im done with the excuses why we cant. There getting them 60 miles up the road.....
December 9th, 2015 at 2:35 AM ^
Do you live under a rock? A non-crazy reason for the recruiting misses is because Beilein/Michigan evidently refuses to cheat. Basketball recruiting is stupidly dirty.
December 9th, 2015 at 9:29 AM ^
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December 9th, 2015 at 11:32 AM ^
So every 4 and 5 star kid that we lost out on over the last 3 years was because the other team cheated? That is like a dozen other programs we are talking about. THis is such a terrible argument.
December 9th, 2015 at 5:58 AM ^
December 9th, 2015 at 9:26 AM ^
wagons and similar toys can be quite dangerous
December 9th, 2015 at 9:34 AM ^
And we've all talked about how Red Berenson earned the right to retire on his own terms - but has the hockey team gotten any better the past few seasons?
I don't think that many people are calling for Beilein's head. But it's definitely getting to where it's fair to ask "what's your plan for improvement?" because the path back to being a second weekend tourney team in the near future is pretty murky right now.
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December 9th, 2015 at 12:33 PM ^
And we've all talked about how Red Berenson earned the right to retire on his own terms - but has the hockey team gotten any better the past few seasons?
You can't compare Beilein to Red. Berenson is the Schembechler of Michigan hockey.
December 9th, 2015 at 1:36 PM ^
comparing Michigan Football wininng a Sugar Bow to Michigan Basketball winning its first 2 Big Ten titles in 25 years as well as playing in the National Championship Game?? Seriously??
December 9th, 2015 at 1:09 AM ^
"The elephant in the room" that gets talked about in literally every thread related to the basketball team.
December 9th, 2015 at 1:16 AM ^
I would settle for some fucking passion like Novak. He was limited athletically, but at least he maxed out what he could bring.
Has Donnal ever once looked like he has given a shit during his time here?
It seems like we have a team of guys that are content to lose and here the same old lame excuses, tough road atmosphere need to play better shit.
December 9th, 2015 at 1:24 AM ^
December 9th, 2015 at 1:30 AM ^
Give me Jordan Morgan, Zack Novak, and Stu Douglass over any of the crap we have now.
Hell give me the 2010-2011 team. Team had next to no high end talent, but competed on every night once the Novak freakout happened.
If not for a bad start to the season, that team could have avoided Duke (who we still almost beat) and did some damage despite its limitations.
December 9th, 2015 at 9:09 AM ^
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December 9th, 2015 at 6:53 AM ^
December 9th, 2015 at 8:35 AM ^
December 9th, 2015 at 9:05 AM ^
It was Novak.
December 9th, 2015 at 8:03 AM ^
December 9th, 2015 at 9:03 AM ^
December 9th, 2015 at 1:18 AM ^
Where the hell is the athleticism anymore?
Our big guys would rather shoot a layup as opposed to stuffing it down the rim.
Dawkins is the most athletic guy and I have seen him take (and miss) a layup instead of dunking it (like he posts all summer on Instagram).
Even we are going to foul teams nonstop, at least foul with his authority. Instead we have a bunch of touch fouls.
December 9th, 2015 at 1:29 AM ^
That freaking kid changed this program and should not be left off the list of men who absolutely put in work in Ann Arbor.
December 9th, 2015 at 1:32 AM ^
I wish we would hire him in some capacity. Team Motivator or something.
Wasn't he a big reason we got McGary - because they knew each other/same hometown?
December 9th, 2015 at 1:54 AM ^
Maybe they should bring him on board, at least he would teach guys to bust their asses more than they are right now.
December 9th, 2015 at 3:26 AM ^
Yes. He is young enough to really relate to these guys and really get into them about the importance of protecting home court and showing up to work everyday.
December 9th, 2015 at 6:28 AM ^
before the '12 Final Four. While he was graciously posing for a photo with my son, I asked him what his plans were, thinking he'd try overseas ball. He answered: "Starting businesses." I guess someone could give him a call and ask if he'd like to come back to be "Team Motivator," though.
December 9th, 2015 at 1:33 AM ^
How little it takes for people to start bitching. People forget how McGary didn't play all that amazing until the NCAA tournament. We don't get phenoms like other blue blood programs, but Beilein has shown he can develop players. This team is especially challenging because while there is depth, there isn't a lot of consistency outside of Duncan Robinson hitting threes. I know everybody loves Caris, and I think he will be fine, but I think he lacks the kind of vocal leadership this team needs on the floor. Maybe Walton is that guy. I don't know, but I'm not going to jump to conclusions based on a few non-conference games. Some teams take time to click. What bugs me is that Coach B's teams seem to only defend and rebound when the offense is clicking. And people whining about the 5 spot need to relax: Wagner is obviously raw but obviously full of talent. Give it time.
December 9th, 2015 at 1:37 AM ^
I think people just want to see a little more fight.
This team doesn't get very many 50/50 balls and rarely makes the 50/50 plays when we play a team with an actual pulse.
Its hard to rely on Walton as a leader if he is never healthy. Team leaders don't get hurt.
December 9th, 2015 at 1:54 AM ^
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December 9th, 2015 at 2:01 AM ^
December 9th, 2015 at 1:46 AM ^
we always used to have athletic bigs because we recruited them, I love that Beilein has brought the program back but we seem to have entered a stalled pattern of mediocrity all of the sudden.
Donnal and Doyle need to play very little minutes, Wagner and Wilson need to be played way more to develop more quickly, plain and simple. Donnal is way too passive and soft and Doyle can't catch a pass to save his life. Also, Chatman is an awful player, he needs to be at the mid major level at best.
We need to recruit the 4 and 5 spots way better than we have and what we have coming in next year seems to be more of the same, I'm sick and tired of this, we have great facilities now so there is no excuse.
I just hope this team gets better as the season goes along and becomes more competitive with the good teams.
December 9th, 2015 at 1:55 AM ^
I think there needs to be some encouraged attrition after this season.
We need massive upgrades on this roster.
We need the space regardless because we are oversigned right now by 1.
Donnal is obviously going to be sent packing, but I wouldn't be surprised if we had 1 or 2 more players move on.
December 9th, 2015 at 7:54 AM ^
December 9th, 2015 at 9:02 AM ^
December 9th, 2015 at 9:03 AM ^
December 9th, 2015 at 1:54 AM ^
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December 9th, 2015 at 1:57 AM ^
December 9th, 2015 at 2:18 AM ^
Biefeldt has no talent, but I'd rather roll with him because he at least makes effort plays and can score despite it usually looking ugly.
Donnal was a colassal miss. Wasn't he a 4 star, top 100 player?
He looks like he doesn't care and his level of plays reflects the same attitude.
December 9th, 2015 at 3:29 AM ^
As others have pointed out, it's hard to overstate how bad Mark Donnal is. It's amazing a four-star recruit could be so bad. He doesn't belong on a mid-major roster.
December 9th, 2015 at 9:13 AM ^
How about Zak Irvin? Has he gotten any better in his 3 seasons? Maybe it's health, but he is frustrating to watch.
Donnal is a complete bust, he'd struggle at a D2 school.
December 9th, 2015 at 9:38 AM ^
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December 9th, 2015 at 5:54 AM ^
December 9th, 2015 at 5:54 AM ^
December 9th, 2015 at 6:01 AM ^
Beileins offense is similar to SVGs. You have 4 shooters and a big man that can hold down the middle. We havent had that big man except for the 2 years with McGary and we went to a title game and Elite 8 with him. Other than that weve had nothing but disappointment. You cant essentially play 4 guards without that dominant big man.
Morgan played defense. That made him serviceable. Im not sure what Doyle adds. I dont see the D or defensive rebounding and his hands are as bad as Ive seen since Morgans RS freshman year. Most of the time he just looks lost out there.
I do think Beilein needs to tweak his system. IMO you cant abandon the offensive boards. Those points you dont get from putbacks can often end up as 4 point swings especially when you dont play aggressive defense on the other end in an attempt to avoid fouls. Its got to be one or the other. Play aggressive defense or hit the offensive boards hard.
Right now this team plays hero ball. Thats thier offense. Thats going to lose you lots of games.
December 9th, 2015 at 6:17 AM ^
As for the subject of the OP, I think Beilein has an exceptional eye for underrated talent but is a middling recruiter overall.
What we have to decide is if we are happy with a coach who does things the right way and whose ethics and methods are beyond reproach with maybe a run once a decade when everything falls right for him or if we are willing to have a guy come in that wins big more consistently but whose methods are more questionable. There are very few coaches out there who can give you both in the college basketball world.
December 9th, 2015 at 6:27 AM ^
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December 9th, 2015 at 7:10 AM ^
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December 9th, 2015 at 7:11 AM ^