Phil Steele's All Big 10 teams
Well, Phil Steele has just released his predictions for All Big 10 players in 2010 and UM is noticeably absent from his First Team lists. Steele has zero UofM players on his first team and only 2 on his second team: Schilling at OG and Stonum at KR.
I guess Phil isn't exactly bullish on UofM in 2010.
I think Phil is stating the obvious. We don't have a lot of proven, upper-echelon talent...Yet.
By the way, last year Phil Steele picked Juice Williams as preseason 1st Team QB. just saying...
Yeah - what starter on our team has played at an all big 10 level yet? Mike Martin is probably our most established returning starter aside from Schilling.
Molk played very well last season and might've made an All-B10 team if he hadn't gotten hurt. If he stays healthy this year he is a lock for either the 1st or 2nd All-B10 team.
But didn't he only play like 4 games?
I would have liked to see one of Molk, Martin, Koger, Roundtree or Odoms on there.
Koger has a lot of talent, but he has yet to really put it together. Roundtree only played well for half a season. We'll see if he keeps it up (I think he will). Odoms has had 2 400 yard seasons. He's good, but we don't pass a ton, so that hurts him. Molk probably would have been on there if he had played more than half a season. Martin is good and could have been on there, but his stats weren't amazing because he was constantly double teamed. All have the potential and talent to be on there, but I don't know if we can say that they 100% deserve to be on there.
I've never been a huge fan of putting pass catchers who can't catch on all-conference lists.
Fair enough, but the Big Ten isn't exactly full of returning talent at TE, and he's still a returning starter who makes big plays. He might be top 4 in the conference.
The receivers part is kinda crazy. There are 12 WR's listed, 2 from Indiana, but not one from UM. I also think that if he would have picked a punt returner from UM, he should have picked Odoms, not Hemingway.
actually, i think odoms really improved last year. i think he had many more drops his frosh year.
Well his numbers certainly didn't improve. Probably due to the emergence of Roundtree, but his catches were cut in half. Maybe I just remember a big drop or something, because looking at old UFRs I don't see a lot of drops at all.
Can people please lay off Koger? Unless you can list off all of Koger's drops. Count them for me as I think we're exagerating his butter fingers. Thanks. Dude has been a big play guy for us ever since they put him in the lineup.
He is on pace to have the second highest per catch average of all TEs in Michigan football history. And, he's done so with either shitty and/or inexperienced QBS throwing the ball.
I have a drop vs MSU, but he also had a 50-yard gainer in that game to help set up a FG when the offense couldnt walk across the street otherwise. He had a drop against PSU. Are we really mocking an underclassmen for that?
I think he's got a great chance to be first team all big 10 with a 24-catch season if he maintains his 14+ yard per catch average. Very excited about this kid's season. No need to bury him because of a couple of drops.
I think he definitely has potential, and next year really could be a great year for him, but to say he never drops is ignorant. Look at his UFR line from last season (not including OSU).
3(easiest) : 7/11
2:4/6
1: 3/4
0 (uncatchable): 0
Those numbers aren't that good, as there were only 12 dropped 3's last season. He made 1/3 of the team's worst drops, and was targeted far less. No one is mocking him, no one thinks ill towards him. but he did have more drops that others last year. That's all I'm trying to say. Braylon dropped plenty of easy balls and made plenty of fantastic catches.
I hope to god this kid learns to catch those easy balls, because you're right, a 24 catch, 14 yard average season would be awesome. No one is rooting against him. In fact, I'm rooting for him.
I didnt say he doesnt drop the ball, just that its been exagerated. I'm not worried about him, drops happen. I do worry that the kids failings these last couple of years get thrown back at them too hard given the lack of team success. Like, we needed Koger and everyone on O to be perfect last year to win, and when they werent perfect, people were quick to shovel dirt on them. Your quip, while humorous, seemed to do just that. Sorry for jumping you.
But, those UFR designations are the subjective analysis of one man as far as what's catchable or not. and is hardly the end all, be all for analysis. Was the catchable ball that the MSU defender dislodged from him on impact on the easy list, for example? It was an easy catch, after all. Right in his hands. Until the safety laid a mo fo hit on him. Its a subjective critique on the part of our MGoLeader.
I watch the games too and, so far, in my opinion, Koger's successes on the field outwiegh his failings. We dont beat Wisco in 2008 or IU in 2009 without his contributions. And his big play spearheded the only legit drive we had vs MSU until late in the game. Cant wait to see what he--or anyone at that position--can do with some experience at QB and better overall talent around him. Actually, that goes for the entire offense.
He still caught 16 balls last season, up from 6 as a true freshmen. I see no reason to not think those numbers keep going in the right direction......and given the big play ability he has already displayed puts him on the radar for possible all confernce honors.
And, it cant be stated enough: Koger is on pace to have the second highest per catch average of any TE in Michigan history. That's quite a list built up over 130 years.
I'm not gonna doubt the MGoLeader on his catchability rankings. On the play you're describing, that was a 2, which I think is fair.
I'm not trying to dogpile the guy or say that he's not going to be a ManBearFreak, but I do think he is not yet an All-Big Ten level TE. He still has something to prove. But I believe he most certainly will prove that something. And it will help having more experience/talent at QB and OL and WR.
But look at it this way, if he doesn't drop those 4 easy passes, he has 20 catches last year. 4*16 = 64. That's a nice improvement, and an easy one to make. We're not talking about the inability to get open, run routes, or make one handed circus catches with two broken legs in a hurricane. When he fixes the dumb drops, he'll be a lot closer to being incredible. His flaws are not dealbreakers.
We're more on the same page than not.
Under normal circumstances, we'd shrug his drops off as youth. But, given our team, he had a starring role that demanded perfection before he was ready. His catching rate on those more difficult ones, but drops on the easy ones speak to his youth and his high ceiling. I do sense many on this board write him off because of those drops, and I am very quick to defend this particular player. Obviously not you, but many.
I am with you. Its pretty obvious he can get to that level this year. Its up to him. I think we have a major weapon here, and those drops get ironed out as upperclassmen. Frankly, I also think Webb or Moore if they get the reps instead can devleop into All big worthy, by virtue of what Koger has already produced and as WolverinLA pointed out the meh quality of Big 10 TEs.
He is decidedly bearish.
Other UM players: on D Steele has Martin (3d team) and then Mouton, Roh, and Kovacs (4th). On O, Molk is 3d team C. Hemingway 4th team PR.
i hope Martin is bearish this year, like the kind of bear that knocks your head off with his gian paw and eats it.
If that guy had done any deep analysis (which, in fairness, might take more time than he had available), he would have seen Roundtree's excellent finish to the season. Like most, though, he probably looked at the season stats and didn't see anything special.
Have you ever read the magazine before??? The only place you'll find a more complete analysis of Michigan or any team is this site right here.
I've seen the magazine and I'd agree that he's better than most. (Yes, I also remember Roundtree getting caught from behind against Illinois. It would be hard to forget that. I also agree that, by measurables, Roy is behind several others in the Big 10. I like his receiving skills overall, though.)
One thing that escaped my notice on the first pass was Keith Nichol of MSU on the 3rd team. Says here (http://espn.go.com/ncf/teams/stats?teamId=127) he had two catches for eleven yards last year. I'm sure he's a good athlete with some promise, but I wonder "What's up?" with that.
Listen to Phil Steele on a radio show some time or read an article about how he compiles his guides - no one spends more time watching games or analyzing indiviudal players than Steele.
That being said, the Big 10 is extremely thin at WR this year. DeVier Posey hasn't done much but was a big name recruit. The other two first teamers are from Indiana and Purdue. Keith Nichol is third team, but no BJ Cunningham. Strange.
he played solid down the stretch, but isn't he the guy that got chased-down by an illini DB with about a 10yd head start? not dissin' roundtree, but i have to believe there are several big 10 WRs with more talent out there; ie - size and speed.
Maybe more god given (and hard earned) talented but you still have to get open and block downfeild, things that Roy R. does well.
Plus I think he really looks like Lil Bow Wow or Bow wow or whatever his name is nowadays.
What a lot of people don't realize is that the Illini DB who ran down Roundtree was a HS track star in a similar calibur as DRob. Almost any other Big Ten DB and Roy scores. Sure, Roundtree isn't know for him speed, but Terry Hawthorne can run down just about any WR in the league.
If he was just a "normal" DB, Roundtree scores, Juice is benched, we go on to win convincingly, end up no worse than 6-6, and beat the bejesus out of some team in the Little Caesar's bowl or whatever the hell bowl we'd be in.
I love alternate realities.
I'm fine with this. I think we certainly have a lot of players who have the potential to play at All-Big Ten level this year (Molk, Schilling, Martin, Van Bergen, Woolfolk, Roundtree, Odoms), but they didn'y have the production last year to warrant a pre-season listing this year.
I'm with you. But there are plenty of guys on these lists that haven't had production. Probably most notably Keith Nichol, who has played exactly one game as wide receiver, and he's a third teamer? Really? Ahead of Graham Zug? Dane Zanzenmacher? Roundtree even? You know, guys who've actually been playing the position and producing?
Martez Wilson didn't exactly put up numbers last year, but gets a 2nd team?
I guess he doesn't think Jewel Hampton's recovered, either.
Anyway, not that it matters, of course. These are merely time passers until the season gets around.
Pre-season = Prognastication.
Maybe he's expecting down years from some of last year's greats, maybe he's trying to sell magazines, but my guess is he's trying to point out some guys that you may not think will be successful. We'll just have to see how Wilson and Nichol do, but I don't think there is anything wrong with this.
Also, on an unrelated topic, I really hate when sports writers make lists. Have you seen the ESPN all world encompassing sports power rankings? That shit is bunk.
I'm not really down on Phil Steele as he usually seems to have a firm grasp on what he's talking about.....but Keith Nichol should be nowhere near an All-Big Ten list of any kind. It's borderline criminal.
I guess I'll add him to the list of people I'm going to taunt when we kick ass this year.
Hopefully, the predictions of the media concerning both individual and team performance will serve to motivate the team even further than they are already being motivated by the coaching staff. I want to see this team come out with a severe chip on their shoulders for the entire schedule this year.
I would imagne that they are sick of losing, sick of the negativity, sick of the media, sick of teams like Illinois, Purdue, and MSU celebrating at their expense, and very, very ready to do something about it on the field this year. I think the media will have a much different perception of the University of Michigan by about the middle of October.
Well since so many U of M players have played at an all Big 10 first team level........this shouldn't suprise anyone. Sometimes the Homerism here astounds me. Keep in mind that sometimes you actually have to earn it.
other than the one about him not being bullish on UofM. I merely linked to this list as it was Big 10/UofM related and I am bored out of my mind.
Personally, I don't think UofM has anyone that deserves to be on a pre-season All Big 10 first team list either.
One note though: Pryor first team All Big 10?!? Based on what? There are at least three returning QB's in the Big 10 who put up comporable or better numbers last year. Honestly, the slobbering over Pryor for his limited production is just astounding. At least Tebow actually put up Heisman-worthy numbers.
And MAYBE Kirk Cousins, as much as I hate to admit it.
is the best returning QB in the conference IME. He was just barely behind Clark of PSU last year as Cousins put up some pretty awesome passing numbers especially for a first time starter.
I would put Cousins and Tolzien ahead of Pryor and Stanzi on par with TP. Heck, Forcier passed for a higher % and more yards than TP last year and he had a messed up throwing shoulder.
I agree I think Pryor is as good as any in conference at this point. I think that speaks more to the lack of QBs as opposed to Pryors ability. Thats alright, its the final stats that matter anyway. Pryor's future 4 picks including a pick 6 against us in November will knock him from is pedestal.
Agreed. From a pure passing standpoint, Cousins could actually be the best. Stanzi and Tolzein are pretty good too. Pryor is probably the best overall QB because of his ability to run though. But Pryor isn't a top 5 QB in the country. Maybe not top 10 either. He will be on all the Heisman watch lists though, at least for the first half of the season.
Put any of the other guys mentioned here on his team, they put up better numbers.
Talent and experience-wise, I think this might be the weakest group of Big 10 QBs I've ever witnessed. And I go back a long way...
Not putting Demar anywhere on this list! What is he thinking!? Some people just don't know.
It's the end-of-the-season All Conference team that matters to me, not the preseason one. My prediction is that Molk, RVB, and Roundtree will all make first team, Schilling, Omameh, Martin, and Ezeh make second.
whatever. Tate and Denard are going 1 and 2 on the hesiman this season.
Nah, we will be so far ahead most of the time they wont be in the games long enough to put up impressive numbers.
the best general publication in the country in terms of the depth and extent of the raw information he amasses and presents. I don't think he's quite as awesome as he says he is when it comes to predictions, but that's not why I buy it every year anyhow. It's just for the data.
There's simply no reason to get PO'd about writers not including us on the various lists of the best players because we don't have any that have proven they deserve inclusion with their play on the field up to now. We all hope that will change radically by the end of the year.
WTF is Steele thinking with Keith Nichol a 3rd team All-Big Ten at WR. Based on what?
Is Keith supposed to be the next Blair White or something
Preseason rankings mean jack in the scheme of things. We have plenty of talent capable of filling out these lists come the postseason.
Along that note, I like Steele's magazine, and look forward to checking it out. So far, we only have the Athlon Sports mag here in Florida.
That's what he's thinking. Any other questions?
(I concur that some of the choices are displaced... but we are talking about it, and he will sell...)