OT:Allowing Athletes To Comeback To Get Degree
Should athletes be able to take basic classes over their athletic career and then return to take the harder classes after their playing career is over?
Most athletes get a degree in General Studies or Kinisology. These we all know are easy degrees they can manage along with the rigors of practice and film study. There are a handful of kids who have the smarts and skill to pull off a business or engineering degree while being an athlete.
I always thought it would be a better sell to kids if they could get the BS courses done over the 3-4 years and then come back and actually do the nitty gritty classes to get a degree they really want. This would allow athletes to get a useful degree for the school and not end up selling cars or insurance after the playing career ends.
What are other peoples thoughts on this?
December 9th, 2016 at 12:03 PM ^
I always wondered how this work. Is there not a time limit before continuing classes where the earned credits are wiped clean?
December 9th, 2016 at 12:06 PM ^
Not sure I just know most scholarships are 4 years. I just think it should be for 6-8. the 4 years playing they would be allowed to carry part time credit hours and then they are given the rest to complete the degree. Maybe cap the time to do it in at 5 years post playing career.
December 9th, 2016 at 12:50 PM ^
But don't you have to be a full-time (12 hours per semester) student to be eligible and play?
December 9th, 2016 at 1:00 PM ^
Yes this would obviously be a change they have to make. Again I am snowballing solutions for players who leave school feeling used and abused by the system.
School gets $$$$ and some athletes may leave with a degree they aren't real happy with because school was secondary to team success.
December 9th, 2016 at 12:04 PM ^
Anyone have a good counterargument for me?
December 9th, 2016 at 12:08 PM ^
December 9th, 2016 at 12:08 PM ^
December 9th, 2016 at 12:12 PM ^
Indecisive!
December 9th, 2016 at 3:08 PM ^
December 9th, 2016 at 4:23 PM ^
Tell my wife I said "Hello."
December 9th, 2016 at 12:28 PM ^
As it stands, football players are graduating at a high rate. Change the rules so they don't even have to make real progress towards a degree and far fewer will ultimately get their degrees.
I have no problems with athletes getting a chance to come back and finish their degrees for free after leaving early. I'm generally against any proposal that makes them less of a college student than they are now. My disagreement is in having them be perpetual part-time freshmen. How many of them would actually come back to pursue one of the more challenging degrees when they were just getting by the first time? More likely they would end up in the easier majors many are in now.
December 9th, 2016 at 12:49 PM ^
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December 9th, 2016 at 1:15 PM ^
Having a degree gives more optons than not having one. One could also argue that doing the work required to earn a degree can have other benefits. Athletes are not the only people who don't use their degrees in their professional career. That doesn't necessarily make any of those degrees worthless.
Any change you make is going to help somebody and hurt somebody else. My money is on this kind of change hurting far more athletes than it helps.
December 9th, 2016 at 12:06 PM ^
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December 9th, 2016 at 12:06 PM ^
December 9th, 2016 at 12:52 PM ^
December 9th, 2016 at 12:08 PM ^
December 9th, 2016 at 12:15 PM ^
December 9th, 2016 at 12:10 PM ^
The potential for abuse where a student "goes to classes" for 4 years, gets no degree, and there's zero recourse is huge. The NCAA is toothless about most things but they do at least have APR restrictions that can keep teams out of the post-season and with this plan it blows all that up.
It seems like something that's going to get abused at a lot of schools where a huge number of students are directed away from actually getting a degree and benefits a relatively small number.
December 9th, 2016 at 12:12 PM ^
I wasn't worried about the NCAA and their joke laws. This is the counter arguement to not paying players. Most people claim they get a $100,000 education, but the degree most leave with isn't worth much more than the paper it is printed on. The method i propose allows kids who really want the education a fighters chance at getting one that is worth something.
December 9th, 2016 at 12:21 PM ^
And it allows schools to make literally every athlete leave with no degree and then have to pay for it if they want a degree of ANY type. You're looking at how this would benefit one or two isolated kids and not how it will end with 99% of SEC football players coming away with no degree whatsoever.
December 9th, 2016 at 12:46 PM ^
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December 9th, 2016 at 12:44 PM ^
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December 9th, 2016 at 1:11 PM ^
Athletes are leaving college without a degree. Many people are saying this. Sad!
December 9th, 2016 at 12:11 PM ^
December 9th, 2016 at 12:14 PM ^
To implementing a right of return today. What a school decides to provide to a former athlete who is no longer subject to NCAA or conference rules is between the school and the athlete.
The athlete could graduate with an easy degree on time and later return for a business or engineering degree or the like. Why not do it?
Of course, the athlete should graduate timely with "a degree" to avoid the APR issues raised by some here.
December 9th, 2016 at 12:13 PM ^
I am not in favor.
December 9th, 2016 at 12:28 PM ^
It's funny, I did a BGS in the mid-80s and I didn't find it easy. If I remember correctly, I had to do 60 credits at 400 level or above. There aren't that many classes at that level without taking the pre-requisites in any given discipline.
I had originally thought I was going to be a Physics major, but realized I wasn't cut out for that. Most of my 400 level classes were in Math, Physics, Computer Science and assorted literature classes (mostly in the English dept). I suppose there might be some schools with easy 400 level classes, but they weren't apparent to me. My education has served me very well (long career in IT) and I've never understood the poor reputation that BGS degrees have gotten.
December 9th, 2016 at 12:30 PM ^
December 9th, 2016 at 12:41 PM ^
I am refering to a Student Athlete who may want to become a Dr. or Lawyer or a Rocket Scientist, but it is virtually impossible to pull off. You say limit practice or film study, but we know that will never happen. Too much money and the end result will end up being paying the athletes or some way to make sure they get the degree they truely want.
Again kids who want to work towards the degree in 4 years have that option. I am looking for another option for kids with the desire to gain a degree in something that traditionally requires more time then they have. It could be as simple as allowing a student to take 2-3 classes at a time. This allows them the time to excell in those classes and on the field. They may require 6 years to gain the degree, but they don't have to foot the bill for the 2 years.
I guess I am looking for an alternative that helps the students athletes as a fraction will have a pro career and I am guessing more than not they have to settle for a sales job that they aren't truely happy with.
December 9th, 2016 at 1:27 PM ^
December 9th, 2016 at 1:43 PM ^
You managed to pick the .00000000001% and seem as if it is the norm. This isn't about giving them a walk. It is about major colleges making billions off the backs of atheletes. Many who benefit little from the time other than memories.
The way it is trending is athletes being paid which then blows things up on a higher scale. I am looking at alternatives to a broken system that in the majority benefits the schools and not the atheletes.
Most here have offered zero answers other than leave it alone. A few have offered similar ideas to mine.
I find it weird many complain about the NCAA selective use of thier laws, but suddenly when kids can get a degree they want while giving the school the billions they crave we have to follow the NCAA rules to a tee.
The system is always going to be abused. Kids who wouldn't won't work towards a degree are the same kids who will sneek by now with just good enough grades to play. Sorry if I am thinking about the kids who want a degree that they can't get for free with the system in place now.
December 9th, 2016 at 1:57 PM ^
December 9th, 2016 at 4:19 PM ^
I heard your two choices and as I said choice 1 isn't going to ever be an option. Choice 2 is nice. I am not saying let them play and do no school. I simply am saying allow them to pick their degree and instead of 15 credit hours allow them to scale back to 6-8 and then their scholorship isn't costing more it is just spread out over more time.
See not when i went to school I worked a full time job and thus didn't take a full course load. It took alittle longer to get the degree, but i got it and it allowed me to pay for school as I went.
December 9th, 2016 at 1:55 PM ^
Craig Krenzel was a pre-med student I believe. Mark Hyuge was a naval architect.
December 9th, 2016 at 12:32 PM ^
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December 9th, 2016 at 12:42 PM ^
You need to provide some evidence that GS and Kines are easy. They may be easier than some degrees but as far as I know they take work just like any other degree at Michigan.
Also there are 4 different undergraduate programs at Kines so I'm not sure if you are talking more about Sport Management than Movement Sciences or what.
December 9th, 2016 at 12:53 PM ^
The point being is they are manageable with the practice/film study time requirements. Most atheletes are pushed this way because they can handle the sport and the classroom. I am guessing a handful of kids want another degree, but realize they can't handle the whole load. I am just snowballing ideas to supplement these kids who bring in so much money, but often leave feeling used and abused.
December 9th, 2016 at 2:58 PM ^
Yeah I see what you're saying. Definitely want kids to be able to get the full Michigan academic experience.
I truly have no idea what goes into GS. As far as kineselogy goes, movement sciences/sports management etc is a pretty natural route for athletes to take, so I don't worry too much about that. As long as it doesn't turn into a UNC African American studies situation where it just exists to get athletes good grades I'm fine with it. Hopefully the university scrutinizes any program with a disproportionate amount of atheltes.
December 9th, 2016 at 12:46 PM ^
I can see this so easily getting abused. Especially at your schools with less than stellar academic requirements.
Let's be honest: there are plenty of kids who come into college who only care about getting to the NFL. Whether they eventually make it there or not. Going to class is just something they've got to put up with, and do just enough work in to get by.
Sure, there are kids who would do it the right way, get to the NFL, and then come back and finish their degree. It's a lot to ask of a kid to be studying for nuclear engineering and mastering a playbook at the same time. But for every kid that does it the right way, I'd say at least 2-3 will just abuse it. Take all the shit classes that require little to no effort whatsoever, head off to the NFL, and then there's no repercussions for it.
Sorry, but knowing those kids would be getting 100% full rides to virtually not have to give a shit about any of their grades or their classes would be infuriating. I also think it would be a slap in the face to every student at that school who's busting their ass trying to get their degree.
December 9th, 2016 at 4:04 PM ^
You forgot about that some of us come from poor neighborhoods and poor schools.
Sometimes people get lost because they lack appreciating schooling because they are well prepared and have never been taught how to ask for help.
December 9th, 2016 at 1:36 PM ^
The Athletic Department has a fund for this, so kids who go to pursue athletics can come back and finish. I am assuming it is for kids who don't make a bajillion dollars in the pros.
December 9th, 2016 at 1:41 PM ^
There is something like this already in place, though I don't know of the timing. I do know that if you've exhausted your athletic eligiblity, the University will cover 1 additional year to finish your degree.
December 9th, 2016 at 1:52 PM ^
In fact, Michigan allows its former athletes to come back and take classes without paying tuition (at least for football in the case that I know of).
December 9th, 2016 at 1:54 PM ^
are we gonna try to make big 10 match $10k fine to chadtough before we donate the $28,500, or not?
December 9th, 2016 at 2:05 PM ^
For all those who trashed Harbaugh for his comments about UM student-athlete academics back in 2007, well he is a man of his word. WD tweeted out yesterday a list of all players with declared majors and on the entire team there were only 3 or 4 BGS. Many majors were represented including economics, business, School of Information, psych etc. One player (I believe Noah Furbush) is Aerospace Engineering. Good to see Coach walking the walk after he talked the talk, you have to believe he had something to do with telling the advisors to stop steering his players into an easier major.
December 9th, 2016 at 2:50 PM ^
Most athletes get a degree in General Studies or Kinisology. These we all know are easy degrees
December 9th, 2016 at 3:31 PM ^
It really bothers me when SEC practices are held up as an example for anything other than how NOT to do college sports. Fuck them.
We should be better than that ("we" being Michigan, the B1G, every other conference, and college football in general).
IMO, APR and holding schools accountable is essential. Ensuring real progress toward a degree is the biggest, most tangible benefit we give these kids. It separates college sports from a minor league.
Keeping that structure in place and THEN offering free tuition for athletes who want to return and pursue any level/degree they wish? Sounds good to me.
Quick note - my guess is this would have to be available for all SA's per Title IX.
A tiny % of college athletes go on to play pro. All SA's benefit from a degree. I'm thrilled JH emphasizes academics, and uses a Michigan degree (and alum connections) as a selling point.