OT: Who is your vote for most overrated or underrated/underappreciated athlete in any sport?
Simple question...someone who is widely praised but you feel is probably a bit overhyped.
Aside from OSU QBs, there are a number of NFL HOFers that I think are questionable as HOFers.
Kurt Warner..only played 3 complete seasons, and if you take away 99 and 01, he's about a .500 qb with no significant accomplishments. Now granted...those were 2 amazing seasons with one of the most prolific offensive minds/skill talent in the game. But you could make an argument that he wasn't the one who elevated them to greatness. And even still, that HOF resume seems a little thin.
Who's your pick?
April 20th, 2023 at 12:38 PM ^
I don't think he's underrated. He is accurately rated. Outside of a few stans, everyone acknowledges he was at least top 3, if not the best ever.
I still will stop and watch Sanders' highlights when I see them on YouTube or anywhere else.
April 20th, 2023 at 12:34 PM ^
If you didn’t see the SpaceX launch today, this comment is a good picture of it: comes from a source that isn’t bad, starts well, seems fine, and then a flaming wreck at the end.
Sanders had same problem Iverson over in the NBA had. They were both individually brilliant. But neither of them ever had the drive to do the rest of the work necessary to win championships.
How many OTAs did Sanders attend? How often did he skip half of preseason practices? And it was fairly common knowledge that Fontes was kept around as long as he was because he didn't require Sanders to participate in all sorts of other team activities.
Do you think Irvin, Smith and Aikman skipped that stuff? Hell no, they probably led them.
Yes. In fact, Michael Irvin held out for all of training camp in 1992. Emmitt famously held out through the first two games of the season in 1993. Cowboys won it all both years.
Exceptions that merely prove the rule. Both were contract negotiation years and aberrations over their career. Sanders did the same thing (which I have no issue with). It was very common back then.
But Sanders also skipped anything team related for no reason other than he could.
It's no secret that Sanders wasn't a "team leader" type, but that's not the same thing as "drive." It's just how he was. There are plenty of elite athletes who had other guys in the locker room that were the natural leaders, and it's part of the failure of the Lions management of the era. Sanders was a fine team player.
(The contrast between him and Iverson is, in its own way, telling. Iverson's issue was never "drive" either).
If Sanders had had that offensive line he would have gained 3,000 yards in a season.
FIFY
April 20th, 2023 at 10:49 PM ^
If Sanders had had that offensive line he would have gained 3,000 yards every season.
FIFY
Yes, for overrated, no one beats Emmitt Smith. You could even say he is underrated at being overrated, that's how overrated he is.
For proof, see Terrell Davis. Somehow, everyone knew he was a product of a system and thus not as historically relevant. While Emmitt Smith is even still considered a legend. Makes no sense.
April 20th, 2023 at 12:27 PM ^
If we stick to our Michigan fandom the answer to underrated will always be MAAR for basketball, kid was an absolute winner and was a silent assassin, yet he never gets the praise he deserves because of how many great guards we had during the Beilein Era. (For example, MAAR was a MUCH better college player than JP).
MAAR easily is the most underrated era of the “Basketball Renaissance-era” (2008-2022). He could take almost anyone off the dribble and his ability to go full speed and finish at the rim was better than any other 2 guard we’ve had with the only maybe exception being Manny Harris.
In college, I would take MAAR over THJ and Poole. Only 2 guard I’d take over him was a healthy LeVert.
April 20th, 2023 at 12:27 PM ^
In before some dumbass says Tim Duncan is overrated.
I'll take a swing at this. Both Tim Duncan and Shaq were overrated to a degree because they couldn't be on the floor during winning time and when they were, the offense didn't run through them. Both great players, but both not closers because neither could be relied upon to hit a free throw so teams would hack. If it's a single digit game with three minutes left, both are riding the bench for the duration. Sure, the first 40 minutes are great hall of fame worthy but down the stretch, everything is amplified in importance.
Yeah those 30 points, 12 rebounds, and 5 blocks are a completely moot point for the first 37 minutes!
Ok...
Well, Shaq's FT issues are extremely well-known, and baked into how people evaluate him. You're not wrong that he struggled; in fact, there is a well-known strategy named for him that is still familiar to anyone who watches basketball today that directly references his poor FT shooting.
But... Duncan? Maybe I'm missing something, but Duncan was a career 69% FT shooter and his worst season was still 60%. That's not unplayable at all. I don't have any personal recollection of Duncan riding the bench in crunch time; now, I'm not nearly as serious a basketball watcher as some, so I very well could be wrong, but even if so I doubt it can't be because his FT shooting was a *liability*.
Duncan was a career 69.6% free throw shooter... with a high of 81.7% in 2012/2013...
Not lights out but far better than most (True) centers in the NBA at that time...
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duncati01.html
April 20th, 2023 at 12:30 PM ^
Scottie Pippen and Horace Grant
April 20th, 2023 at 12:50 PM ^
Ahhh, under or over???
April 20th, 2023 at 12:31 PM ^
Overrated: Pre-NBA Darko Milicic
April 20th, 2023 at 12:39 PM ^
Too soon.
April 20th, 2023 at 12:31 PM ^
Sticking to Michigan, here's a guy from way back that I think was underrated:
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/mike-griffin-2.html
Looking at his last two seasons (including the championship year) I'm not sure I've ever seen a smaller box score impact from a guy playing 20+ minutes a game, but he seemed like a good team player and was often in the right place.
April 20th, 2023 at 12:31 PM ^
At Michigan, Iggy Brazdeikis was only here for a year, but I feel like people forget about him and how good a player he was
Generally, I think Amare Stoudemire was always underrated. Dude was always second fiddle to Steve Nash in Phoenix, came to the Knicks, was incredibly good for a year or two, then injuries basically derailed his career soon after
April 20th, 2023 at 12:36 PM ^
Had he played for 1 or 2 more years he would have been an all-time Michigan great. NBA/College basketball needs to be fixed so that these guys can get some of the adoration fans want to give them. Paychecks are great, but they should be able to get paid and have some meaningful games. Most of these guys will not have meaningful pro careers.
April 20th, 2023 at 12:51 PM ^
With advent of NIL, it's fixed. See: Hunter Dickinson.
April 21st, 2023 at 12:17 PM ^
College basketball needs to be fixed so that these guys can get some of the adoration fans want to give them.
For most people and at the most atomic level, the purpose of college is to get a job.
Now if an athlete goes pro even after just one year, hasn't the system fulfilled its purpose?!
April 20th, 2023 at 12:32 PM ^
Serge Corbin - largely unknown outside the sport he owned.
https://paddlingmag.com/stories/serge-corbin-gretzky-of-marathon-canoe-racing/
April 20th, 2023 at 12:40 PM ^
I think Dennis Rodman is the all-time most underrated player in any sport. Absolutely phenomenal defender, rebounder and all-around hustle player. He got a lot of attention for his appearance and off-court antics but he's one of the greatest players of his generation. No way the Bulls win that second 3-peat without him and I think most fans and NBA followers took him for granted.
Also underrated: Ichiro.
Just realized I also had to add Curtis Martin. Tremendous player, totally overlooked.
1000%
For those who are dubious: https://skepticalsports.com/the-case-for-dennis-rodman-guide/.
Underrated - Horace Grant
Overrated - Clyde Drexler
April 20th, 2023 at 12:40 PM ^
Underappreciated: Chauncey Billups. It was cool that the Goin-to-Work Pistons were known as the team with "no stars" -- but that's really not (or shouldn't be) true. Ben Wallace is deservedly in the Hall of Fame but Chauncey should have been 1st ballot -- by efficiency metrics he's a Top 50 all time player, a Top 10-12 point guard, but doesn't get that kind of respect for his individual play.
Overrated: beating a dead horse but it was absurd that Stetson Bennett was a Heisman finalist -- even by Heisman standards -- when he probably wouldn't have been a starting QB for at least 20 other schools. Obviously he had something to do with his team's success but he deserved literally zero individual accolades.
April 20th, 2023 at 12:45 PM ^
I think it's important to remember that it's the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Best Stats.
In some ways, Kurt Warner was the QB leading the offense that changed modern NFL football, with teams throwing it all over the place and using running backs in the passing game. Of course, there were precursors (Eric Metcalf was a RB who caught a ton of passes, Dan Marino threw for 5,000+ yards, etc.), but when Warner and the Rams became a high-powered offense...the rest of the NFL tried to be like them.
It was very rare to throw for even 4,000 yards at the time, and Warner did that three times in his career.
There have only been 15 instances of QBs throwing for more than 5,000 yards in a season, and 14 of them have come post-Warner (his career high was 4,830).
April 20th, 2023 at 12:57 PM ^
Now, this...I can agree with, certainly a better perspective than some have mentioned previously.
Some other notable Kurt Warner achievements:
- Highest all-time career playoff passing yards per game
- First QB to throw for 400+ yards in a SB; record broken only by Tom Brady
- Holds 3 of the 6 six highest passing yard games in SB history
- Highest rate of games with 300+ passing yards (at a whopping 41%+ (min. 100 games)
- One of just three QBs to throw 100+ TDs with two different teams (the others: Peyton Manning, Fran Tarkenton)
- First QB ever to throw 40+ TDs and win SB in same season (only other guy to do that: Tom Brady)
- Fourth most SB starts at QB all-time with 3; everyone ahead of him or tied with him is already a HOF (or will be: Brady, Mahomes)
And these don't even include his two NFL MVPs and SB MVP. Considering his achievements and the fact he was undrafted, Warner was easily a slam dunk HOF candidate.
Completely agree.
A few years ago there was a thread about a coaching clinic hosted by Mike Martz. I commented there about what it was like watching the Greatest Show on Turf Rams at the time.
Martz had an uneven late NFL career. Things certainly weren't great in Detroit, although I think we can all agree that he was far from the only problem there.
But the Greatest Show on Turf era in St. Louis was one of the most exciting football teams I've ever watched. You had the incredible QB story in Kurt Warner (SI cover five games into the stunning '99 season: "Who Is This Guy?"). You had astonishing receiver speed and talent in Isaac Bruce, Tory Holt, and Az Hakim. The first game of the 2000 season, against Denver, two guys racing each other to the end zone after absolutely burning the Broncos D. You had the magnificent two-way Marshall Faulk. You had the aggressive, somewhat revolutionary downfield passing game (principles of which have become commonplace now but were unheard of then). You had the mad genius play designs, the installs of dozens or over a hundred new plays weekly. The track meet shootout games when the D was bad, and the two epic Super Bowls when the whole team was great.
And the moments... unforgettable. The Az-Zahir Hakeem end-around option play that pitched to Trung Canidate for a TD. The cheese late onside kick in a blowout against the Jets. That game where the placekicker got hurt, so they just went for two after every TD and made most of them. The deliberate use of irony in a play design, having Kurt Warner throw off his chin strap in mock frustration and walk toward the sideline (as he had so many other times due to playcall issues) while snapping it to Faulk and running for a first down.
They were must-watch football every week. I have never seen an NFL team, before or since, with such an amazing combination of talent, attitude, and revolutionary brilliance in one package. Nothing was as fun. Only a few college teams, like the Chip Kelly era Ducks, have exceeded them in compelling neutral watchability.
The NFL caught up to him, and he could never repeat that success elsewhere, but for three-plus glorious years there was nothing like them anywhere.
They remain one of my favorite every teams to watch in any sport from a neutral perspective.
Underrated: Brandon Graham as an Eagles player, not by Eagles fans or Michigan fans, but by everyone else. Sack stats are important, and his are not bad, but as a whole, they do not tell the full story, especially in regards to Brandon Graham's resume. BG has been one of the most consistently effective, if not downright dominating DLs in the NFL for many years now. Plus, both on and off-the-field, BG is an inspiring leader that often makes those around him better.
Overrated: Every Buckeye QB as an NFL prospect in the modern era. Seriously, which one has exceeded expectations after leaving Columbus?
April 20th, 2023 at 12:50 PM ^
Idk if it’s true but I’m surprised nobody has said Bill Walton is overrated yet.
Is he!?
If so, it makes it perfect as he's totally underappreciated as a broadcaster! It's hilarious television. I know many will disagree but I think they're taking things/sports way too seriously when complaining about Walton's color commentary. Especially for a Cal-USC game at midnight.
April 20th, 2023 at 12:50 PM ^
Overrated: Joe Namath. The dude has no business at all being in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Even by passing standards of his day and age they are pedestrian and he in fact led the NFL/AFL in interceptions multiple times. He is a case in point of: personality + market = inflamed view of ability.
Honorable mention to Scottie Pippen and Russell Wilson.
Underrated. Sweet Lou. It gets tougher for me after this because guys like Stan Musial and Joe Dumars are probably underappreciated in the sense that their accomplishments do not seem to get much national love...However, they are in the hall of fame. I will throw out two other Mo-Town Hall of Fame snubs: Alex Karras and Chauncey Billups.
April 20th, 2023 at 12:59 PM ^
I mentioned Nameth before reading you post.NY East Coast Media bias a huge factor.Eli Manning gets the same treatment and will undeservingly end up in HOF.
April 21st, 2023 at 12:21 PM ^
Eli Manning [...] will undeservingly end up in HOF.
Right, wrong, or indifferent, the fact of the matter is rings matter for HoF/perception.
Eli has 2x SB wins, 2x SB MVP, and 57,000 career yards passing. Those creds are legit.
Sweet Lou. It's a sin he's not in the HoF.
Longtime NYC resident, I gotta say if he'd played for the Yankees, he'd have been in easy.
He would have been 1st ballot if he'd been in pinstripes. Career WAR is 75.1 -- ahead of guys like Alomar and Biggio, who had more plate appearances -- and average HOF 2nd basemen WAR is 69.6
Co-sign on both Namath and Whitaker.
Namath is in the HOF solely because of his "Broadway Joe" persona and the Jets' surprise victory over the Colts. His stats for that season were terrible: 49.2% completion with 15 TDs against 17 INTs.
If Earl Morrall didn't have the worst performance by a QB in Super Bowl history, the Colts would probably have won. Morrall threw three INTs deep in Jets territory, and Unitas also threw an INT. The Colts also fumbled once. Five turnovers is not a recipe for success in the Super Bowl.
April 20th, 2023 at 12:53 PM ^
Most underrated has to be Lou Whitaker.
His stats are better than many players in the Hall of Fame, yet somehow he is not in. In fact, I think he has a higher WAR rating than Derek Jeter.
I had to come this far down the page to find the one correct answer.
April 20th, 2023 at 12:54 PM ^
Overrated is Tim Tebow or Brady Quinn or Jimmy Clausen
Underrated/appreciated is Lou Whitaker.
April 20th, 2023 at 12:55 PM ^
Overrated Joe Nameth..More career pass int.than td passes..In the upset Super Bowl win that he gets most of the credit he threw for under 200 yards and 0 td's.Can you name another NY Jet player on that team? Jets win with def.and an outstanding running game.
Eli Manning, Brett Favre
Michigan QB's...Overrated Brian Griese..Underrated J.Navarre.
I might reverse those myself. Griese's NFL career showed what kind of ability he had. Navarre seemed like a great teammate and had impressive career numbers based on four years of activity, but I never once thought "Wow, we're really lucky to have this guy."
A 6'6" QB shouldn't get passes batted down very often.