OT - University of Michigan plans $300M+'innovation center' at failed jail site
It is a freep article so I will not link. I found it interesting what everyone else's thoughts were. I'm a big Detroit homer, so maybe only I care.
"The University of Michigan plans to open an "innovation center" in downtown Detroit on the site of the aborted Wayne County jail project as part of a $300 million-plus development, according to three sources close to the plan.
The innovation center will be a development partnership between real estate mogul Stephen Ross, a Detroit native and U-M alumnus, and Detroit businessman Dan Gilbert. The project will include a hotel, and total costs could be $500 million to $750 million over time if other buildings are constructed, including housing."
October 29th, 2019 at 7:33 PM ^
Wow, thanks fantastic. Should've included link...
October 29th, 2019 at 10:18 PM ^
Gilbert really playing nice to get a soccer team
October 30th, 2019 at 12:48 AM ^
My proposed area of study: What makes a butt so sexual?
October 30th, 2019 at 12:28 PM ^
I think you should write a book about it... and use the name Clarence Buttlicker.
October 30th, 2019 at 10:25 PM ^
Whoa...I see why you've lost wages. Comedy is not your thing.
October 29th, 2019 at 7:40 PM ^
I have strong reservations based in part on the Hudson Yards project. They are partly political, so I will keep some of them to myself. But I can say--hoping that a lot of old-fashioned conservatives would also agree with me--that we don't want big capital planning our cities, we want the people doing it based on their own collective, hopefully inspired decision-making.
Let me just add that I was born in Detroit, my father taught at Wayne State and I care a lot about the city and its revival. So I hope it's hugely successful in stimulating small- and medium-business growth, especially.
EDIT: I always wish that when people negged something carefully considered like this they would have the good manners to say why.
October 29th, 2019 at 8:03 PM ^
Promise it wasn’t me. But chill man.
October 29th, 2019 at 8:15 PM ^
Yea don't sweat it man. There are some real ignoramouses signed up for this message board and like the internet in general, these types are just looking to spew drivel/whine ("neg")/post stupid gifs when a differing opinion is offered up.
October 29th, 2019 at 8:19 PM ^
I was also born in Detroit and my family has lived in or around the city for six generations and I think that this point of view misrepresents the city's history a bit. I'm not sure if you're presenting the prior state of the city as a grassroots effort by the people or not, but that's how your post reads and it couldn't be further from the truth. I mean, this city has been entirely developed by three monolithic manufacturing corporations and the various smaller corporations that exist to supply them.
There's a contemporary narrative that the city is undergoing a renaissance of the people as well. This also feels a bit hard to believe, given that so much of the development is still being funded by billionaires and large corporations. For every Sister Pie that crops up, there are 15 Bedrock buildings.
October 29th, 2019 at 8:24 PM ^
This seems to be true. The only ones interested in renewing the city after the ones who own most of it, or at least started making their fortunes there. I think there's something to it. You have to have big attractions to start and small attractions will accrete.
October 29th, 2019 at 9:02 PM ^
Which one(s) serve Brontoburgers?
October 30th, 2019 at 2:27 PM ^
And nearly every one of those Bedrock buildings was badly deteriorating or headed for the wrecking ball only to be brought back to life by local design and construction firms and trades workers. And in every one of those 15 Bedrock buildings are people working or living when they used to work or live in the suburbs. I worked in downtown Detroit for ten years when it was a rock bottom in the 80s--I am astonished at the comeback and the real enthusiasm and energy for the city today. Who cares where the development dollars are coming from--there are rich landowners in every successful city.
October 29th, 2019 at 8:21 PM ^
I'm not familiar with Hudson Yards. What's wrong with it?
October 29th, 2019 at 8:46 PM ^
Not negging you, but you need to be clearer in your terms. Big capital IS the people, albeit a handful, but it isn't urban planners or municipal folks. The money ain't there. So if you want game-changing development, like this appears to be, you have to accept money from the 1%.
And if you're looking for good decisions in planning from the people (i.e., their elected representatives), you get the idiotic jail concept which this new enterprise will replace.
But I appreciate your sentiment on getting the people involved.
October 29th, 2019 at 8:57 PM ^
Detroit has been up for sale to the highest bidder for years, ever since the auto industry was targeted for extinction--exactly BECAUSE it gave power to the People.
The millionaires and billionaires won long ago and I am surprised to see some guy tout himself as an old fashioned conservative talking about The People--who are also exactly what the millionaires and billionaires do not care for in the least bit.
But the city was desolate and a pit--who else had the money to buy it, bulldoze it, and rebuild it, filling it with $10.00 per hour service jobs?
October 30th, 2019 at 6:14 AM ^
No, I'm speaking as a progressive and noting that sometimes both sides dovetail in their thinking about issues like this. I am not trying to dodge the realities. Hudson Yards, which some critics are calling 'Little Dubai,' arrogates an enormous chunk of lower Manhattan to itself, and as many feel, to the rich, and is a source of fury to some; it has some interesting features, but in my mind the jury is still out.
But I'm not talking about pie-in-the-sky notions of democratic planning, more about how these things need to work organically to succeed, getting the mix of public and private--often quite different from the popular rhetoric--that gets them there. Because many such projects end up being a single couple of ventures clinging to life amid a bunch of empty storefronts when the vision failed to match up to the reality on the ground, downturns come, etc. Have been involved in several of these myself. Am expressing some wariness rather than outright disapproval based on these people's history, etc.
October 30th, 2019 at 12:36 PM ^
If you're going to criticize at least get your facts right. Hudson Yards developed an essentially unused six block area on the far west side of Manhattan to add a large amount of office space, shopping, and tourism draws. Saying that it "arrogates an enormous chunk of lower Manhattan to itself" is a bonafide falsehood and I feel that you don't really understand the dynamics of NYC neighborhoods if that's what you have gotten out of the Hudson Yards project. It wasn't a previously residential area and Ross isn't displacing a neighborhood with his development. The project was built on the west side rail yards - a site that was previously proposed as the vacant lot for the 2012 NYC Olympic Stadium which would then become the Jets/Giants Stadium, but obviously those games went to London. Since then it has been unused.
I don't know anyone here who actually cares negatively about the development. It either doesn't affect your life or you find some use for it. Some people's offices will move there, some people will shop there, a lot of tourists will go there. Not a big deal.
October 30th, 2019 at 6:14 AM ^
There is no People. Stop it with that bullshit. Not only is it a lie it cynically does not count every citizen.
The true “people” is everyone, not just leftists.
The auto industry was made possible by a singular genius who became immensely wealthy off of it. There would be no Detroit without millionaires and billionaires.
October 30th, 2019 at 11:36 AM ^
There is no people. This is dumber than wobbly ass; there is no sky or sausages, either. And lecturing people about what Detroit is--not even vaguely connected to anything I said--still dumber.
I have an uncle who organized for the UAW in Detroit and an uncle who served as a veep at Ford, who oversaw development of the Taurus. My dad taught at GM for years. Believe me, I have looked at Detroit from a number of sides. Your little lecture is condescending and weak.
And if you think efforts like this fly without PEOPLE becoming enthusiastic and engaged. . .
I've seen your reactionary little homilies here. Let's just say that wouldn't get you a cup of coffee anywhere else, not even among the people who might inspire them.
October 29th, 2019 at 10:12 PM ^
As someone who studied city planning in grad school, yeah, it's actually a really interesting question how much governments should focus on trying to attract, say, established businesses versus trying to foster organic local growth or even really get involved in economic development at all.
I'm fairly liberal, but one of the best classes I ever took was taught by an arch libertarian who basically argued that most government spending on "economic development" was basically just throwing way more money at businesses in the form of tax breaks than the generated jobs would ever pay back, and just amounted to a race to the bottom situation.
The few instances where cities were ever able to truly turn around from economic ruin were places like Seattle, which basically had two guys decide to start their future multi-billion dollar company near their moms instead of...Albuquerque? But basically it attracted skilled workers to a company that was able to make money by exporting things (tech) that other people outside the area wanted, thus bringing money into the local economy, and then other skilled workers that other high-tech companies might want to hire, thus attracting more businesses, thus attracting more people, etc.
Actually Detroit was cited as a city that basically did the opposite, in that it mostly had jobs that required almost no skill, so when the main companies went away, there wasn't really a talent base that could go start new companies, and the city got left behind.
All that is a roundabout way of saying that, yeah, the real hope would be that some promising small companies come out of this that decide to stay put in Detroit if and when they really get going.
October 30th, 2019 at 8:38 AM ^
I doubt anyone commenting actually lives or works in Detroit currently. Here's an update. A promising small company called Ford decided move it's tech campus to an old train station in Detroit and will employ 5,000 people. Another small company called FCA is currently building a brand new assembly plant in Detroit to build Jeeps. Waymo, a small subsidiary of a small company called Google is moving into a plant in Detroit and will be assembling self-driving vehicles. Lastly, a small company called GM, just announced a $3B investment in a Detroit plant to build electric trucks.
October 30th, 2019 at 6:10 AM ^
The “people” don’t collectively do anything. Rather it is a small group of citizens with a lot of time on their hands who these things.
Most citizens are too busy/concerned with their lives to engage in activities line this.
The myth of the collective in the US needs to perish. It simply doesn’t exist.
October 30th, 2019 at 9:10 AM ^
My opus got eaten. TL/DR.
The People are a socialist pipe dream.
It doesn't work. Look at Soviet Union. Look at the UAW leadership going to jail for embezzlement. Look at Congress and their insider trading, not paying back school loans, not being involved in Social Security because it's not good enough for them. It's because power corrupts.
Capitalism with consumer protection brings the most for the most people.
October 29th, 2019 at 7:41 PM ^
The anti-Freep thing continues to be stupid.
October 29th, 2019 at 7:53 PM ^
No, they damaged the program badly. And they continue to work to do so, publishing the worst sort of yellow journalism weekly trying to stir up the shit. If you're too young to know about it, you might do to find out.
October 29th, 2019 at 8:09 PM ^
Completely agree, as an org the Freep deliberately went after the program on the most inane grounds possible and gave the program a very swift kick in the balls over nothing when it was at one of the lowest points in history.
It doesn't matter to me AT ALL that the actual people responsible are long gone, the paper remains and never walked it back or apologized.
Juxtapose that to the nearly non-existent coverage of ACTUAL scandals and sexual assaults by players at MSU that they could justifiably investigate and expose.......yet, nothing. Mostly apologetic coverage.
I live in California, so I don't know where they were on the Nassar thing, but I assume they covered it, just not clear how vigorously. I definitely don't see the same rigor in going after all the regents and BS artists that worked to help cover it up, seems like they give them as much of a pass as they can.
Why should anyone as an M fan ever send them any traffic/links ever?
October 29th, 2019 at 8:23 PM ^
They are pretty aggressive against MSU. The freep in general is sort of confrontational like that. It isn't vs MSU or UMich specifically, they just like to kick people when they are down in general.
October 29th, 2019 at 8:59 PM ^
Is there anybody NOT out to Get Michigan?
Honestly, this place is starting to sound like a right wing deep state conspiracy theory echo chamber.
October 29th, 2019 at 11:47 PM ^
Guy joins in 2018 and talks shit about Michigan NOT getting colossally screwed over by a media obsessed in the early/mid 2000's with destroying them.
Fcuk, it's that irrelevant idiot Michael Rosenberg's burner account.
Okay, cool, hook em.
October 30th, 2019 at 9:48 AM ^
Have you been paying attettion to the games? Most of the close calls have gone against...see the spot vs. OSU in 16, pass interference vs PSU to name a few.
October 30th, 2019 at 1:25 AM ^
There's a big difference between MSU and what happened at Michigan under Rich Rod. It wasn't a conspiracy. It was legitimately journalistic malpractice, and I'm certainly not someone who yells "fake news" or thinks everything I don't agree with is out to get me or Michigan. Having said that, it was about 10 years ago, and I'm pretty sure everyone involved in that is gone, so I'm over it. The paper does important work not related to sports. It should be supported.
October 30th, 2019 at 3:14 PM ^
The paper does important work not related to sports. It should be supported.
But....does it?
Why are they not hammering on the huge payouts MSU is making to ex-employees that are under indictment for trying to cover up the scandal?
Why aren't they front and center on the people that still need to be held accountable for squelching the initial reporting of the abuse?
Why isn't MSU getting roasted for initially calling for a 3rd party investigation into the whole mess, with currently elected regents that campaigned on that very promise, then canceling it for no apparent reason other than "we have most of it under the carpet now, let's just keep sweeping and put it behind us."
I'm not espousing any kind of deep-state conspiracy against UM, that's absurd. However, it DOES seem like UM tends to be transparent and ethical about any type of potential scandal, and that they get held to a higher standard as a result. If they tried to sweep something under the rug they would get crucified for it. As opposed to scandal and cover-ups at MSU being BAU there and therefore not a huge news story. As an example, try switching MSU for UM and Ingham County Police with Ann Arbor police (I guess you could throw the two DAs offices in there as well) in the story about non-investigation into sexual assaults by athletes and the dropping of charges and attempt at protecting their status by sweeping the whole thing under the rug. If that occurred at UM, you would still be hearing about it until every last stone was turned over and every last person answered for their actions and was held accountable.
October 29th, 2019 at 10:43 PM ^
"Why should anyone as an M fan ever send them any traffic/links ever?"
Considering Detroit is less than an hour from Ann Arbor, they employ a lot of M-grads. That's probably the best reason I could come up with.
October 30th, 2019 at 12:43 AM ^
So you are saying not only to shoot the messenger, but also after they have picked themselves up and left, or in one case passed away, you want to keep kicking anyone left behind?
October 29th, 2019 at 9:57 PM ^
Is this all from the RichRod thing that resulted in sanctions for too much contact with players in the offseason? Or is there more to the hatred than that?
If that's it, it strikes me as really petty. That was like 8 years ago at this point. Local journalism is important. The Freep might not be A+, but it sure beats a lot of local publications.
October 29th, 2019 at 11:15 PM ^
Lloyd Carr and the Freep conspired to cause RichRod to go 3-9. Shame what they did to such a salt of the earth guy because they were jealous of his football genius.
October 30th, 2019 at 12:45 AM ^
You forgot the /s Jason
October 31st, 2019 at 12:30 AM ^
Jeebus.
I hate the Freep's work on stretchgate as much as the next guy but blaming Lloyd Carr is a bit much.
Rosenberg, sure.
October 29th, 2019 at 7:47 PM ^
Moses Moody to Michigan?
October 29th, 2019 at 7:53 PM ^
These are the sorts of developments we should be celebrating quite honestly. I get the anti-Freep feeling around here, but when any outlet is reporting on potentially positive development, holding onto that frustration quite frankly seems silly. If they do a hit job on Michigan again that is overblown or not rooted in fact, of course, feel free to unleash anger.
October 29th, 2019 at 9:55 PM ^
Thank you sir, may I have another? No thanks.
October 29th, 2019 at 8:00 PM ^
Gilbert and Ross are developing it jointly? Will the building be the atrocious Miami Dolphins orange Ross insisted on for the business schools, or a gross Cleveland Cavaliers burnt yellow?
October 29th, 2019 at 9:48 PM ^
all signage will be in comic sans
October 29th, 2019 at 8:18 PM ^
Michigan and MSU alums, working together! See, we all can get along.
October 29th, 2019 at 9:00 PM ^
Do pretend Michigan grads get along with pretend MSU grads?
October 29th, 2019 at 8:21 PM ^
Not entirely sure what is innovative about office space and two rich guys looking to profit with a hotel but glad to see Michigan investing in Detroit in some capacity
October 29th, 2019 at 8:25 PM ^
That is why I was interested in other peoples opinions. I wasn't sure if an "Innovation Center" is an actual thing or just drum up funding bs.
October 29th, 2019 at 10:30 PM ^
Either way, better a billionaire does something substantive with his money than nothing. And if it's spent in an area you live near, yay?
But honestly I don't think anybody has any actual certainty, just the ability to argue for whatever school of thought they grew up in or studied in. It's hard to manufacture bounty, from the top down or from the bottom up. Too much randomness and too many variables for any model to work.
I'm sure there's a better word than "bounty" lol I just can't pick it.
October 29th, 2019 at 11:08 PM ^
I don’t think making money is substantive but that wasn’t really the point of my post.