OT - UK to Offer Free Visas to Recent UM Grads
Way OT, but the UK has started a new visa scheme where if you have graduated from a global top 50 university in the past five years, you can get a visa without having a job lined up. You can also bring your family but need to show a couple grand in the bank. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-61628740
Could be a good option to have if anyone wants to go to a country that feels less actively on the brink of a civil war.
That's a cool, innovative idea.
What a smart idea.
Instead of brain drain, a brain gain.
Notre Dame didn't make the cut ;-)
They can go to Ireland.
Not me graduating in 2016...
and move to a country closer to an actual war :)
Damn! It's been a long time since I graduated, but I think this could be good.
My wife and I both think that the USA will be no more in about 10-15 years, and we are preparing by trying to procure citizenship in other countries. I hope it doesn't happen, but we just want to be prepared. I would advise recent grads to be prepared!
My wife and I both think that the USA will be no more in about 10-15 years, and we are preparing by trying to procure citizenship in other countries.
This is kind of a fascinating opinion.
Less than 200 years ago half of this country once went to war against the other half of the country... for four years. Actual war with guns. There was a period of about 10 years, less than 100 years ago, when over half the country fell below the poverty line.
"Things are bad" is kind of a relative term. "Doom scrolling" on social has been a pretty common hobby for a few years, and I've got a couple friends in text groups that are particularly adept at frequent apocalypse predictions.
That said, "the country ceases to exist" level-bad seems a bit ... extreme? My concern for you is that maybe we (especially through a 2022 lens) have a tendency to overinflate our personal experiences relative to the greater picture. But hey, I'm not here to prosthelytize and how you and the Mrs spend your evenings is no concern of mine.
Interesting.
I can see your point, and I think your stance is consistent with a good amount of Americans. With that, my wife is a Hispanic immigrant from a South American country that was under a lot of political duress, whereby several of her family members are in the US under political asylum. Listening to them talk about the experience illustrates that we have all the signs of a potential "national divorce".
1. We hate hate hate each other based on who we voted for. There was a time when being on the opposite side of the political spectrum was considered an "opponent", now they are considered an "enemy"
2. Our government doesn't work together anymore to help its people. The Economist had an interesting chart going back 70 years showing the trend of bills being co-authored and bipartisan. It was a plenty decades ago, now its extremely rare.
3. We now have had 2 elections in a row where the other side didn't trust the results of the election. This is a big deal and a huge sign of things to come. No matter the outcome of the 2024 election, I'm going to guess the other side is going to say the results are a sham.
Both my wife and I are very much apolitical and don't like to get involved, but talking with my in-laws I can see the signs for the beginnings of a national divorce based on their experience. That could come in the form a full-on civil war or perhaps a "balkanization" of the country. And even the balkanization could be peaceful (i.e.Czechoslovakia - the velvet divorce) or war-torn (i.e. Yugoslavia).
I hope it doesn't happen, but if it does and we are forced to pick a side, we want to be prepared to leave the US for greener pastures.
Yeah, I think the lack of faith in the opposition simply as "people of good faith who think about things differently" is really disappearing rapidly and is a huge problem.
Yea, its so depressing. I have several family and friends who are part of one political party and have a parent in another. They JUST. CANT. GET. ALONG!
One calls his own mother so many hateful names...because she voted for the person in the other party. Yet, the son can't look at all the beneficial things his own mother has done for him.
Yeah...this has actually been a huge challenge in my own family to the point that I just have to deflect by saying "We won't agree on this and that's OK".
interesting and sadly not uncommon - why do you think it got to that point for them Windy?
Chaco. Good question of which I have no real answer other than what I see in front of me.
Disclaimer: what I'm about to say is my opinion and is not necessarily true, just my observations.
At least in my family, people are using politics as a form of religion, in that, they are overly dogmatic about their approach to certain topics. They cannot understand that people have different experiences and up-bringings that shape your thoughts and beliefs, and that these thoughts and beliefs, despite being different than you, are perfectly acceptable.
Here is an apolitical example: my wife is Hispanic, I'm white (EU mix, but mostly Irish). My wife's grandma is 101 years old and shes doing great. A true inspiration! When she passes, my wife said the entire family would be sad and that we'd have to wear black for a month. In my family, if I had a grandma that lived to 101, then we'd party our asses off. Sure, we'd be sad, but gosh darn, there is so much things to happy about.
The biggest point is that my wife and I will never ever judge someone's character based on who you vote for. We will not partake in the hate. I hope others will follow suit.
First, I do agree getting another passport is a great idea as a back up plan. Being prepared is important as that saved my family in the past.
However, looking at other countries around the world, I do not see many that are in a better position than the US (btw, I grew up in probably the most f'ed up country in LatAm/world - Vzla). There is definitely a huge divide of people in the US that I had never seen here since moving here more than two decades ago and it reminds me of the hate between the two sides back home.
However, in terms of overall check and balances, rule of law and economic policy (not that I am in love with many of them) we are much better off than almost any other country. I have huge economic concerns for Europe, LatAm countries take one step forward and two back (I have huge concerns for Mexico, Peru, Brazil, Colombia, etc...), China (I really wanted to move there about 15 years ago) has gone completely backwards (IMO) in terms of freedoms and even opportunities for growth. So yeah, overall this is the most depressed I have been about overall world outlook, but I am not sure where we would do better (quality of life, opportunities, education, health care, safety, freedoms, etc) than the US still.... of course that could change.
Btw, WindyCity, didn't we meet in Miami many years ago?
Did we?! We may have!
My wife's family has so much going on down there. My wife's best friend and her uncle lives there. And my MIL's best friend lives there as well. If it wasn't for the fact that I do have some veto power over my wife, we'd be living there now.
I am pretty sure we met at a mutual friends house in KB, for some reason we ended up chatting Michigan sports and recruiting (this most have been in the mid 2000s, but I remember already being on MgoBlog so maybe it was later). I could be wrong, but I remember sharing our blog ID and I keep on thinking it was yours...
I was very much considering moving to Miami, but I have issues with the number of bolichicos living there now.
We definitely did meet then! My wife's aunt (who is my daughter's godmother) had a place in Key Biscayne. They not longer have the place, so we don't go to KB at all these days.
I hope you are doing well!
Likewise!! Glad my memory still works every once in a while
'However, looking at other countries around the world, I do not see many that are in a better position than the US'
'However, in terms of overall check and balances, rule of law and economic policy (not that I am in love with many of them) we are much better off than almost any other country. '
What objective standards are the basis of these statements.
Subjectively, I live in London but grew up in the States and lived there for most of my life. Lived in most regions from coast to coast, from Michigan to Texas...
I feel much safer here than in the U.S. Every country has problems..but looking back across the pond and reflecting on the mindset and attitudes I see there towards the 'other'..be it based on race, religion, sexual orientation, political team, rich vs. poor, gender rights and American is a downright scary place.
The guns and violence, the lack of health care (don't you need health care for all of the people being shot and maimed daily?) and social services (don't you need social services to deal with all of the trauma from all of the shootings and violence?), the rolling back of women's rights, voting rights, civil rights etc. I'm not seeing anything remotely close to that in the UK or the larger European countries. Of course there are issues here but it just doesn't feel as threatening to disagree or debate.
And I mean...January 6th..really did happen in AMERICA! And the guy who lost the last election is still misleading large swaths of the public (many whom are armed and angry) with a lie. That wasn't a Speilberg film. That by all indications was just another step along the way...
Can't simply wish this stuff away...
Not saying I disagree with you, but your thoughts in your post are a source of the division. It seems that they way you think is THE only way to think, and that anyone who thinks differently than you is below you. Just my opinion.
What part makes you think I feel others are below me? Can't see how you came to that conclusion. And if there is something you disagree with then feel free to say it.
My in-laws are from Peru, and they experienced a coup in late 2020 (about a month before Jan 6). It was a really tense time for us as my BIL and his kids were stuck in Peru during the unrest. My BIL and family are here now thankfully.
With that, observing the coup in Peru with my in-laws vs what happened Jan 6 is striking. Not to diminish what happened Jan 6, but their general reaction with my in-laws was that what happened Jan 6 was very unorganized, amateur and not really a coup. It was a bunch of ass-hats being stupid without a real agenda. We all agree that all who broke laws should be punished within the fullest extent of the law, but it didn't really resemble a coup.
It seems to me that if I don't make the Jan 6 people part of some referendum, then we are below you.
First, I do agree getting another passport is a great idea as a back up plan.
I had to have two passports once because Saudi Arabia wouldn't let me in the country with a record of being in Israel with my other one.
I guess i see it as we have a long way to fall before descending into civil chaos. Like income per capita could fall by half and we're still a relatively stable country. That said it's very reasonable to project the country's trajectory as downward and want to leave.
Yeah, good post. One thing that is also never clear to me when people predict "US Civil War soon!" is the mechanics of how it would happen:
- Unlike in the early 1860s, there is no very clear regional split as regards differences. Even if, in an extreme example, Alabama or California were to secede from the country, there are significant groups in each state that would oppose. The Black Belt and Huntsville in Alabama, and besides, they elected a Democrat as a US Senator just a few years ago! The Central Valley in California, and the Republican Candidate for President in 2020 got more absolute votes in California than any other state in the country (that actually wasn't true in 2016 FWIW, CA ranked below TX and FL)!
- Most (all?) of the organizations talking about Civil War are private and not public entities. When the Southern states seceded in the 1860s, they had state-sponsored militias and other military groups sponsored by the government. Not the same situation now.
Short of a foreign state detonating nuclear missiles on American grounds (a true worst case scenario) and literally destroying the physical infrastructure needed for government to mechanically work, I can't really imagine any situation in which the USA does not exist in 2032 or 2042.
We have our issues, but they ARE all workable.
Perhaps not a civil war, but a balkanization (which is meant to avoid the bloodshed of a civil war). You can't deny that this country's citizens absolutely hate each other, I mean we hate each other with deep deep passion. I have a large family that used to get together for holidays, now that is a permanent thing of the past just so we can have a peaceful holiday. It really sucks.
My wife and I are very apolitical, and we will never judge a person's character based on who they voted for. Many in our family seem to think otherwise, and they think they are righteous in doing so. Again, it really sucks.
I can't deny that, but American citizens have really hated each other before too (e.g., 1960s). We came through to the other side. I do think it will happen again here too.
I've said this before here, but I really do not think the current hatred is fundamentally based on left vs. right. It's more rooted around authoritarianism vs. traditional liberalism.
BOTH the establishment American right and left have titled, often wildly, toward authoritarianism in the 2015-2022 era. But authoritarianism is counter to both American history and many Americans' mindset.
Completely agree... if you have not watched Commanding Heights it was a great docuseries that Nova put out in the early 2000's. It is so interesting to look back at the swing the other way in the past 20 years.
Yep - that was a good series, watched it back then!
I'm not a complete believer in Strauss-Howe Generational Theory, but I think it has some foundational merits. It goes along with the popular saying: "hard times make strong men, strong men make good times, good times make weak men, weak men make hard times."
We're in a valley right now. I also think we'll climb again.
Yes, agree with you on the merits of that theory, not fully onboard with it.
But the swing back and forth between authoritarian vs. traditional liberalism, and during each period the "winning" side thinks they have won and people have finally realized why the other side does not work... only for the swing to happen again... Sadly I am pretty distressed about the overall world outlook right now.
I wasn't around in the 60s, but I can't imagine they hated each other then more than we do now. I mean we have agenda-driven MSM and the influence of social media to fan the flames.
IMO, the most concerning thing is that we no longer trust our elections. Two in a row now that is not trusted. Whether that is real or perceived does not matter. Not trusting elections is a thing of developing nations, and is a sign of rot in our nation.
I think the missing point on a lot of this is that many of us think that we, the general population of non-elites (elites being made up of bureaucrats and their cronies) have been purposefully pitted against each other. All politicians do is demonize the other side and tell us that we should hate the other side too. Some may not explicitly say it, though some do. But all certainly imply it. It’s represented through certain issues. “If you don’t want to eliminate guns, you want more kids to die. If you don’t want to ban abortion, you’re a murderer.” Very very few people actually believe these extremes. But it gives you the ability to “other” the opposition and not have to discuss with them. You can hate them and give yourself an excuse for re-electing your side. I see it as a distraction from the ultimate motive: keep them in power because “they can fix the system as long as they have power.” But the goal isn’t to fix anything. It’s to stay in power, and that goes for almost literally everyone in Washington as well as whomever the cronies are.
“You can't deny that this country's citizens absolutely hate each other, I mean we hate each other with deep deep passion.”
I doubt that hate is stronger than the hate in the past which led people to be supportive of or apathetic to enslavement, segregation, immigration quotas, etc for most of our country’s history. In that context, thinking that this current hatred is what would lead to the destruction of this country is a bit drastic. Though I won’t deny that a lot of that divide today stems from differences of opinions in how we’re trying to rectify and deal with this country’s history of hatred.
"Unlike in the early 1860s, there is no very clear regional split as regards differences. Even if, in an extreme example, Alabama or California were to secede from the country, there are significant groups in each state that would oppose. "
...but that was also true in 1860.
Opposition to secession in the south is believed to have been in the 30-40% range.
Yep, first, that's how West Virginia came to be.
Second, when I lived in Northern Alabama they were very proud to have tried to secede from Alabama during the Civil War. As they put it, we were way too poor to have slaves, why would we want to die for a bunch of rich people down on The Plains.
Lastly, we can't have a civil war. One side is almost completely unarmed. This is all overblown hyperbole, and you should feel ashamed you even give these people the time of day. As I tell my mother, repeating something obviously false is endorsing it.
Can't upvote this enough. Anything is possible and the country has seen more peaceful days, but it's also seen a lot more violent ones.
No more? As in uninhabitable across the continent or just a different composition of states?
You may be right but that seems like a stretch. Only time will tell.
I mean there will be no more United States of America. Either through civil war or an active balkanization, the country will cease to exists and split into separate countries.
Listen, I'm not trying to be controversial on this, but my in-laws are Hispanic immigrants who came here for a better life, but are seeing the signs that led them to leave their original country in the first place.
It's hard to imagine organized armies like there were in the Civil War, with generals leading the charges. The US military would crush any opposition if they were involved, and it's hard to imagine them not getting involved in some way. I could see states rights becoming all-powerful and the federal govt losing its power and influence, which could create a sort of territory of countries, the borders of which may evolve over time as alliances are made and broken. The problem then would be resources and who has what. I could see fighting over that, and over port access. I don't see us all playing nicely and sharing. Plus, if the war in Ukraine lasts or expands, I could see there being a global food crisis which could affect us, too. I don't think we've been here before, even with the Civil War in our history. We're globalized now and that has to factor in. Other countries will want influence here. We're in a bit of a pickle.
Yea, that's exactly what my in-laws said "it's hard to imagine", but then it happens. But I agree with you, if we can adhere more strictly to the state's rights aspect under our 10th amendment, then it could reduce some of the pressure. Let blue states be blue, and let red states be red. And don't impose your values onto each other. However, even state's rights is a very controversial topic that drives a lot of hate.
The things that unite us are mutually agreed upon liberties and rights and we don't seem to agree on those anymore. It's hard for me to imagine a nation of "live and let live" states, who let other states do their own thing without challenging them in some way, or preventing their citizens from leaving for greener pastures in other states. That seems to be against everything we've seen in human history so far.
I think about half of us are fine with live and let live in each state. If the other half would leave us alone, that'd be great.
Yes.
Life is a big bell curve. The vast majority of people want to be left alone and leave a better place for their kids than what they had.
Then there is the very vocal 10% on the left and the right which doesn't want that because there is power and money in keeping hate alive.
This is were we disagree. As long as the 10th amendment is followed, I don't care what other states do.
You and I both live in the Chicago area, which is a heavy left-leaning area. Its suits me and my family well. But I would never want to impose this upon anyone else.
I have some good friends (Michigan grads) who recently moved to Texas from Chicago for several reasons, including taxes. Taxes in the Chicago area are crazy, less so in Texas. Why should I judge them for moving to Texas?
Ok, a little more than half.
Totally agree. People like the activist near-socialist style governments? Move to Illinois, California, New York, etc. You can live very nicely in any of those places. Same with the less government is better types out in fly-over country. Oklahoma was a great place to live, if that's the government style you want.
My single biggest issue would be state governments who let one side or the other hijack the way things are done when you hit 51% one way or the other. There is a happy medium in a lot of states, but some have made the Exec or Legislative branches too powerful.
WindyCityBlue: "Let blue states be blue, and let red states be red. And don't impose your values onto each other."
This would be excellent.
We do have a good piece of it with the Constitution.
But the Federal government has grown to be enormous. When the Federal level controls so much, especially when it controls enormous flows of money, it creates large incentives to control the Federal government, which creates incentives to steer the politics of states.
Also, there are groups of people with strong political or religious beliefs who work very hard to change things in states in which they don't live.
The fact that states rights is a controversial topic is a sign of the rot in this country that will lead to its demise.
How so? It was the most controversial thing at the constitutional convention too.