OT: Trammell and Morris elected to Hall of Fame
December 11th, 2017 at 12:38 PM ^
imo, ozzie was the best defensive player ever regardless of position.
December 11th, 2017 at 5:47 AM ^
Trammell & Whitaker were my two favorite players growing up. I remember meeting them in their rookie year when I was a little kid. My goal growing up was to replace Whitaker at 2B when he retired.
I am thrilled that Morris and Trammell are finally in as it is long overdue. I always thought it would be the coolest if Trammell and Whitaker went in together as one. 19 years side by side playing at a high level - the best DP combination ever in MLB history in my slightly biased opinion.
I've always been peeved by the love Ryne Sandberg has received over Whitaker. I think Whitaker overall was the better player.
December 10th, 2017 at 6:47 PM ^
Hallelujah! They righted a huge wrong here - Tram deserved to go in ages ago.
I acknowledge that Morris's case is among the weakest of any in the Hall of Fame and don't give a shit. Hallelujah to this as well.
December 11th, 2017 at 3:10 AM ^
I acknowledge that Morris's case is among the weakest of any in the Hall of Fame and don't give a shit.
That is exactly how I feel. That Game 7 will always be a bravura performance, and watching his no-hitter against the White Sox in Chicago is one of my treasured baseball memories.
Trammell was simply overshadowed by Cal Ripken and Robin Yount, much as Tim Raines was unlucky to be the second-greatest leadoff hitter of all time ... playing at the same time as Rickey Henderson, the greatest leadoff hitter of all time. All Tram needed was time to get people to appreciate that three great shortstops had played at the same time.
Hopefully that's all that Whitaker needs as well, is time.
December 11th, 2017 at 1:16 PM ^
Further, people didn't seem to appreciate Tram's versatility. After establishing himself as a terrific table-setter in the two spot, he was asked to re-shape himself into a power hitting clean-up hitter and and handled it with no problem (continuing to play excellent shortstop the whole time). Very few players could do that.
December 10th, 2017 at 6:50 PM ^
December 10th, 2017 at 6:52 PM ^
Next up: Sweet Lou
December 10th, 2017 at 7:32 PM ^
home stand.
December 10th, 2017 at 8:51 PM ^
December 10th, 2017 at 6:53 PM ^
Trammell being outside the HOF with Barry Larkin in the HOF --- that never made sense. Good to see that is changing!
December 10th, 2017 at 6:53 PM ^
December 10th, 2017 at 6:53 PM ^
Awesome and long overdue!
December 10th, 2017 at 6:56 PM ^
Didn't Morris win the Series with 3 different clubs and have the most wins in the 80s, I know wins aren't the best barometer of a pitcher but that is still pretty good. His biggest problem was he was a dick to the media and they have too much control over who gets in or not
December 10th, 2017 at 6:59 PM ^
Wins were a much better barometer back then when pitchers went into the 9th with regularity.
December 10th, 2017 at 7:14 PM ^
Good point
December 10th, 2017 at 7:03 PM ^
He'll have the highest career ERA in Cooperstown, and yes, what has also really held him back was his awfulness towards just about everyone during his career--not just the media.
December 10th, 2017 at 7:17 PM ^
I don't have a better way of doing it but when some writers refuse to put a guy in on his first ballot just because I think that's wrong. It's just funny that Jack is on the other side now and is part of the media that he hated
December 10th, 2017 at 7:22 PM ^
December 11th, 2017 at 6:16 AM ^
Parrish was the one guy on that team big enough to make Morris listen. I remember I one game when my brother and I got down there early, and watched the players pull their cars into their parking lot. Parrish was riding shotgun in somebody's convertible, leaning back with his hands behind his head (and maybe posing a little for the female fans, because why not?) The guy's biceps were bigger than my thighs - and I'm not a small person.
So yeah - if Lance told you to knock off the attitude, I think most people would listen.
December 10th, 2017 at 7:16 PM ^
really aren't that "elite." He never won a Cy Young Award either. His batting average on balls put in play was an amazing .014 below the league average in his era --- thank you to Trammell & Whitaker to a large degree for that. He really didn't prevent runs at that great a pace.
HOWEVER, that Game 7 in 1991 is one of baseball's iconic single-game performances. He was very dependable and durable - you could always count on him. The advanced metrics do tend to penalize pitchers who eat innings, and Morris was one who definitely ate innings. He won a whole lot of games - as another poster said, the most games of any pitcher in the 1980s. Wins are a much more relevant metric for rating folk when a pitcher is a workhorse (like Morris).
He's an interesting case. I personally would not have voted for him, but that doesn't matter now. The decision is made - Jack Morris is a Hall of Famer.
December 10th, 2017 at 7:17 PM ^
Good thing nobody asked you!
December 10th, 2017 at 7:22 PM ^
I would like to see a stat of his era through 6 innings and the era through 9 innings he pitched a lot of complete games high pitch count did he give up more runs after 6 innings because few go past 6 or 7 now because of pitch counts
December 10th, 2017 at 7:33 PM ^
and for "pitch 76 onward." I never knew these stats until looking them up just now. But these stats are noteworthy (this isn't statistical noise here, this is significant) and to Morris' credit - he IMPROVED as a game went on.
Innings 1-3: career OPS of .706 against
Innings 4-6: career OPS of .692 against
Innings 7-9: career OPS of .667 against.
Pitches 1-25: career OPS of .727 against.
Pitches 26-50: career OPS of .763 against.
Pitches 51-75: career OPS of .738 against.
Pitches 76-100: career OPS of .680 against.
Pitches 101+: career OPS of .659 against.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.fcgi?id=morrija02&year…
December 10th, 2017 at 8:24 PM ^
But seeing them both pitch dozens of games, there are similarities between Morris and Verlander. If they could get through the early innings, they could throw 100 + pitches and would become more and more effective, and would be so pissed if they were pulled in the 9th.
Loved these Tigers and Mickey Lolich before them.
December 10th, 2017 at 7:23 PM ^
Roger Craig deserves some credit in Jacks career too he gave him that split finger fastball
December 10th, 2017 at 6:58 PM ^
Tram and Lou were the greatest DP combination in the history of the game. Its a travesty that they werent in already and its a travesty they didnt go in together. Morris was the best big game pitcher of his era. While his numbers overall are shaky, his performance in those big games makes him worthy.
December 10th, 2017 at 8:46 PM ^
December 10th, 2017 at 6:59 PM ^
Well deserved both. Now LOOOOOOU too.
December 10th, 2017 at 7:01 PM ^
Still hard to believe that Tram never got voted in during his time on the ballot, a massive miss on the writers part, corrected a pretty large injustice today.
December 10th, 2017 at 7:01 PM ^
Morris was incredibly successful but had a super high 3.99 lifetime era and was a bit prickly. Really tough ballets are the only reason he didn’t make it.
BLESS YOU BOYS!
December 10th, 2017 at 7:04 PM ^
The reason both ended up with the Veteran's Committee was because they'd exhausted their eligibility on the normal ballot.
And Morris' career ERA was 3.90 not 3.99.
December 10th, 2017 at 7:12 PM ^
December 10th, 2017 at 7:20 PM ^
December 10th, 2017 at 7:31 PM ^
December 11th, 2017 at 11:13 AM ^
Good stat, but I don't think Biggio was first-ballot deserving either. That was more a lifetime achievement award. The writers over-romanticized his career.
December 10th, 2017 at 7:22 PM ^
December 10th, 2017 at 7:26 PM ^
DId anyone ever get into the Hall of Fame based on ERA?
10 innings to clinch game 7 and the series, 4 rings and winningest pitcher in the 80's. Smoltz was pitching a shutout on the other side but was relieved in the 8th. Yes, winningest pitcher in the 80s is a manufactured stat. At one point, his post season record was 7-1 wirh 2.6 ERA. But good grief, there are more than a few rather average Yankees or Pirates in Cooperstown for what appears to me to be a single good outing during one World Series.
Morris was known for practicing little used pitches when the game was out of hand one way or another. I am not sure why anyone cares about home runs in late innings at somewhat inconsequential times. It sounds more like East Coast West Coast bias to me.
December 10th, 2017 at 7:26 PM ^
December 10th, 2017 at 7:27 PM ^
About fucking time for Trammell.
As for Morris, I get that his case was sort of borderline at best, but as Tigers fan, I love it.
All that's left is Lou - both members of the best double play duo ever need to be in the HOF.
December 10th, 2017 at 7:27 PM ^
It's about time!! But where is Sweet Lou? He has the numbers to earn his way in...
December 10th, 2017 at 7:35 PM ^
Tigers are also retiring 3 (Tram) and 47 (Morris).
Tram I'm ok with; don't really get retiring 47 though. Retired numbers have to be saved for truly elite players. First ballot HOF'ers. Especially when you're such a storied franchise.
December 10th, 2017 at 7:36 PM ^
I know we had some dark years but I was in Cooperstown a few years back and correct me if I'm wrong but was Al Kaline the last Tiger in and its not like the Hall is filled with Tigers. Detroit bias? Maybe but compare Trams stats to Ripkin and other shortstops plus he was part of the best double play combo at the time
December 10th, 2017 at 7:37 PM ^
December 10th, 2017 at 7:40 PM ^
December 10th, 2017 at 7:42 PM ^
December 10th, 2017 at 7:45 PM ^
The 1984 Tigers were one of the furthest from present-day World Series champions to not have a single member of their player roster in the Hall of Fame. It was kind of remarkable in that way.
Congrats to Tram and to Jack Morris.
December 10th, 2017 at 7:48 PM ^
The 1981 Dodgers don't have a Hall of Famer either.
December 10th, 2017 at 7:46 PM ^
Well deserved! Those 80s Tiger teams were terrific.