OT: Talking Cars Tuesday: NAIAS
Well, it's that time of year in Detroit. Coming off record US auto sales, it's time for manufacturers to show off the future and trumpet past success at Cobo. Are you heading to the North American International Auto Show? What debut/news/etc has you most excited? Looking at/for a new car? What? Why?
Let's forget it's cold out there...
January 12th, 2016 at 10:06 AM ^
Do GM transmissions still suck shit? Or have they finally done something about it?
January 12th, 2016 at 10:27 AM ^
We have a lot of content in GM's RWD transmissions, so those are wonderful :-)
In all honesty, they'll be much improved. If you haven't driven a new car in 5 years, you'll be amazed. In general, new vehicles are much, much better than they were even 5-7 years ago. The 2009 downturn did a lot to the auto industry, but one thing that it did was introduce a ton of cut-throat competition. There's a lot less complacency (Coach Harbaugh would be proud). Everyone now wants their vehicle to be "best in class". Gone are the days of many people buyinig a GM because it's a GM. For example, let's look at the midsize car - the old Pontiac G6 sure looked cool in like 2006, but by 2008 - why get one? It was "OK, it's a car". GM's new midsize offering, the Malibu was a bit of a miss, and totally redesigned. Trying to be best in class.
January 12th, 2016 at 11:04 AM ^
were like black magic to me when they had 4 speeds.
Now we are talking 8 and 10 speeds. And they're more reliable. Damn.
One thing I do miss is the manual. Paddles are cool, but I like the connected feeling I have when I drive a stick.
January 12th, 2016 at 11:08 AM ^
If you want a car with a stick, buy one! or they'll stop offering them. I'm on vehicle #4, all have had 3 pedals (well, my first jeep had a kick parking brake, so technically 4)...
January 12th, 2016 at 11:21 AM ^
sadly, my kids tuition sucks up all the ready cash. So my new car is 9 years old.
January 12th, 2016 at 11:23 AM ^
Teach the Gospel to others: http://www.caranddriver.com/features/save-the-manuals-official-headquarters
January 12th, 2016 at 11:33 AM ^
the gospel of the Standard!
January 12th, 2016 at 11:21 AM ^
This is still one of my deal breakers as most cars don't have manuals nowadays. Give me standard.
January 14th, 2016 at 4:07 AM ^
A 2006 Pontiac G6 V6 is exactly what I have. (Had to replace its transmission cooler lines last year, because it was a GM.)
January 12th, 2016 at 10:39 AM ^
...and civility. I remember a time when even suggesting an engineering or assembly flaw in a GM vehicle would have gotten your teeth kicked in.
January 12th, 2016 at 10:44 AM ^
It's a great time to be a car guy. The downturn forced a lot of hard choices, and most of the results have been great. GM makes great products. Lots of car companies do, and that competition makes everyone better.
The problem is that lots of people often don't buy the "best" car for them - whether that's marketing, market forces, costs, or whatever. Look at the Cadillac CTS - it's probably the best luxury midsize car there is, and no one buys it. The Cadillac Escalade is overkill and a terrible car for lots of people - and it's Cadillac's best seller.
January 12th, 2016 at 11:02 AM ^
Having grown up in an era of Ford Futura's and Tiny Tercels, we live in a platinum age of automotive development.
You can open up a car ad page of a paper, close your eyes, and point, and you'll almost certainly come up with a well designed, reliable car.
I love the CTS, but yes, people aren't buying it. Its too bad. Reminds me of the Prelude in its final years. Great car. Honda killed it because it wasn't selling.
All that said... I do wish there was still an option for simpler cars. I detest the fact that I can't get a car with a key that costs <$50 to replace. And I don't mind an ignition. Start/Stop buttons annoy me.
It would be nice to be able to get a Jeep Cherokee or Ford Explorer with canvas flooring, roll down windows, a decent engine, and as few gewgaws as possible. But that's not the way the world is trending, and I'm a small fish swimming against a strong current.
January 12th, 2016 at 11:06 AM ^
...I worry that we may be on an automotive bubble, of sorts.
With the coming of auto-drive cars... I'm afraid that one day, sooner than I think possible, auto-drive cars become the norm. And then self driving cars get outlawed eventually because they won't be as safe.
That would bum me out.
January 12th, 2016 at 11:14 AM ^
I think a true, for-real self-driving car is further away than the starry-eyed Silicon Valleyites would have us believe. Google thinks it can just code away all the obstacles. I don't think so.
But when they do come, I will be one of those crotchety old fossils who swears they can pry my steering wheel out of my cold, dead hands, and yeah, I very much worry that driving your own car will one day be illegal. I think that would be a terribly sorry world. Driving is fun.
January 12th, 2016 at 11:19 AM ^
Amen!
My wife teaches HS. THere's been an interesting paradigm shift from the 28 years or so ago when I was coming of driving age:
kids just aren't into it. Some are, sure. But alot put off their license and don't care as much. its more of a hassle to them.
Scary. They don' tknow what they've got! Our 'Family' car was a '75 Duster and then a '79 Mustang. The Mustang had a 4 cyl and it would stall at stoplights if you ran the A/C.
These kids grew up with tricked out swagger wagons and 400hp sports cars and don't appreciate them. :-)
January 12th, 2016 at 11:16 AM ^
Well, kind of yup. You're right in that the simple car you crave won't exist because of safety regulations (which have worked!) however, our autonomous future is farther than you think. The average car on the road is 11 years old. Even if Every new car sold in 2018 was autonomous, it'll take about 20 years for the majority of cars on the road to be driver free.
Autonomous cars are also still a nightmare in a lot of ways - insurance, crashes, responsibility, programming, etc. Don't worry about the rise of the machines just yet
January 12th, 2016 at 11:32 AM ^
That machines will take awhile to filter through.
Yes, I have a 500. I bought it because being based on the S80 its crash test ratings (at the time) were phenomenal. And having two small kids that was important to me. Plus its AWD.
So the complexity does have some real positive payoffs. Its the niggling things that drive me nuts. $200 for a key is ridiculous, and there isn't a 'cheap' option.
One thing... my buddy works for Ford. And he brought up the same liability point. If Ford makes an auto Drive fusion, and there's a big accident.... is Ford now liable? Having 20,000 self driving cars out there could be a crushing liability.
January 12th, 2016 at 11:11 AM ^
Similarly, I'm disappointed that leather seats are considered luxury and cloth seats are for rentals. Leather seats are freezing in the winter and scorching in the summer. I probably will never again get a dark-colored interior because I hate sitting my butt on a griddle in August.
I think luxury ought to mean something that's comfy as hell to sit in, and no leather seat I've ever used in my life can beat the plush cloth seats in my grandpa's old Bonneville.
January 12th, 2016 at 11:18 AM ^
Often marketed as "synthetic leather", it's really just nice vinyl. And it's really nice! Most European cars have it as an option
January 12th, 2016 at 12:04 PM ^
January 12th, 2016 at 10:07 AM ^
I really want the Scion FR-S, but they still haven't made one with a sun roof or convertible top. I'm just going to wait to see if there will be one with at least a sun roof. I am so used to having an open roof that I simply cannot go back.
January 12th, 2016 at 10:39 AM ^
Could the new 124 Spider teach you to say "Ciao, Bella"?
January 12th, 2016 at 10:50 AM ^
Nice, but it just looks like a Miata on steroids and I hate Miatas.
January 12th, 2016 at 10:52 AM ^
It is a Miata. With a fiat engine.
January 12th, 2016 at 11:58 AM ^
Oh...well uh, yeah.
<walks away in shame>
January 12th, 2016 at 10:57 AM ^
spectrum.
I've got a '94 NA Miata. I love that thing to death, and its stock. I'm 5'11 270 and I can fit into it pretty easily. And the thing handles like crazy.
I love the purity of it, and the mix of practical (323 engine) with the purist (rwd), great balance. light).
January 12th, 2016 at 11:46 AM ^
So you have a Miata, what does your husband drive?
January 12th, 2016 at 11:54 AM ^
Yup. I used to feel the exact same way. 'Tiny car. Tiny engine. Give me my torque addiction. People only like it because its cute'.
Then I drove it.
Ford had something going with the early 90's Capri. It wasn't as pretty, but they could have had it.... but they made it FWD.
That, and the balance issues it imparted made it a true 'cute' vehicle. Miata's are honest to God sports cars, IMHO.
January 12th, 2016 at 10:09 AM ^
Rumors that Jeep is making a Wrangler based pickup start prod in 2017. That is what I want to see, but unfortunately I am stuck in Florida.
January 12th, 2016 at 10:14 AM ^
Jeeps are great, but only after putting a shit ton more money into it after buying it. In their stock form, they're just OK. Jeeps are always better when customized. Gotta have the bigger tires and better suspension. I'd only get a Rubicon and those are the most expensive ones. I'm not bragging, just saying I like the Rubicon style more...but again, after customizing it.
January 12th, 2016 at 10:37 AM ^
Jeep Wranglers are great. But expensive as hell (either from the factory or once built)
January 12th, 2016 at 11:14 AM ^
does suffer, IMHO, from the Harley name upgrade disease.
I'm sure Sergio likes it, but man. My buddy bought a 4 door Rubi Wrangler after his cancer went into remission because it was his dream car. That puppy stickered at like $46.
January 12th, 2016 at 11:20 AM ^
And they sell like crazy. When I got a job out of college and looked for a new car to replace the Avatar, I went to a Jeep dealer. To get a Wrangler with similar capability (I had lifted mine, etc) was going to be outrageously expensive. And with gas prices, etc. I couldnt' justify it.
January 12th, 2016 at 10:55 AM ^
Even stock if you get it with some decent skit plates its great for off roading at *most* places. Sure, if you're going to do some heavy duty stuff then get the lockers. But for most people its at Drummond Island or on the dunes somewhere. The Wrangler can handle that easily.
the Rubi is a beast. Front and rear lockers, disconnecting sway bars. It'll do almost anything. And it comes with a warranty.
January 12th, 2016 at 11:53 AM ^
was confirmed by Sergio Marchionne yesterday but won't be on display at the show this year.
January 12th, 2016 at 10:09 AM ^
Was considering getting an Acadia as the next car for the wife after our Cadillac SRX lease is up. And then they took 7 inches off the length, 3.5 inches off the width, and shortened it by 4 inches. So basically it's a cheaper SRX now.
January 12th, 2016 at 10:19 AM ^
I don't know anything about cars so forgive me, but what does it mean to say that "they took 7 inches off the length" and "shortened it by 4 inches"?
BTW, there's a Lorena Bobbitt joke in there somewhere.
January 12th, 2016 at 10:33 AM ^
...vehicle length (how big it is in your garage), and wheelbase (distance between the axle centerlines, front to back).
January 12th, 2016 at 10:22 AM ^
So there are really 5 types/sizes of "Crossover SUVs":
Tiny: Jeep Renegade, Fiat 500X, Buick Encore, Chevy Trax, Honda HRV, Nissan Juke, Etc.
"Compact" C Segment: Escape, Patriot, CR-V, Rav4, Tiguan, etc.
"Compact/Mid Size" D Segment: Cherokee, Audi Q5, Chevy Equinox, GMC Terrain, Lexus RX, Jeep Grand Cherokee, Ford Edge, etc.
3 Row: Traverse, Pilot, Highlander, Explorer, Durango, etc.
Towing: Tahoe/Suburban, Ford Expedition/Lincoln Navigator, Escalade, etc.
GM's just working towards sizing their vehicles better. The Traverse will stay 3-row, the Acadia is shrinking into the D Segment to better fight the Ford Edge. The next Equinox will be smaller to better compete against the Escape, etc.
January 12th, 2016 at 10:25 AM ^
I liked the Acadia as a nice version of the Traverse. Might as well go Explorer at this point, instead.
January 12th, 2016 at 10:28 AM ^
The Enclave is going to stay as a more-luxurious-Traverse, while the Acadia goes half-a-size down.
If you really need 3 rows, the Explorer's tiny. They're selling like crazy but other offerings have more space - if that's a big concern.
January 12th, 2016 at 10:42 AM ^
We live in DC so the current Acadia is about as big as we can go without having to pull a ship into port parking it. Good call on the Enclave, forgot about Buick's general existence for a few minutes.
January 12th, 2016 at 10:44 AM ^
You sound like a true product guy, must be in/or was in engineering program management or product planning?
January 12th, 2016 at 10:48 AM ^
I'll take that as a compliment. I'm a product engineer with a major auto supplier - my area of expertise is powertrain related, but my company makes lots of stuff. We supply everyone, so I hope I'm relatively unbiased.
The quick version of what I do is that I design car parts.
January 12th, 2016 at 10:52 AM ^
in the Explorer have real foot wells? I have a Commander with a 3rd row, but only my son (7) and daughter (10) can sit there.
January 12th, 2016 at 10:59 AM ^
Google images says yes. This is part of why I love Auto Shows - you can go, have your kids climb in the back, you climb in the back, see what you think, all without salesman pressure! I really wanted to like the Focus ST, but when I sat in one at the auto show, I realized my hockey-goalie shaped legs didn't fit in the seat well.
January 12th, 2016 at 11:22 AM ^
You can't drive the cars, but you can get an idea of the feel for them.
That kiled the Acura Vigor for me one year. I sat in and the steering wheel hit my thighs no matter what I did.
January 12th, 2016 at 10:51 AM ^
earlier this year. Neat vehicle. I just think they missed an opportunity by not offering a version with a Jeep like soft top. It'd be like a latter day soft ute Samurai. I bet the kids would love it.
January 12th, 2016 at 10:13 AM ^
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January 12th, 2016 at 10:23 AM ^
I've seen one before on two occasions: October 26th, 1985 and October 21st, 2015.