OT - Simmons to Leave ESPN
Not too surprised given his recent suspensions. Not sure where he goes from here? NBA is probably his main sport to write on and he does some TV work there. Take the Dan Patrick route? What happens to Grantland?
Haters can also comment here on how they hate Bill Simmons.
After they suspended him for criticizing the NFL, I think he was pretty much like f*** you.
He's a big enough name that I think ESPN needs him more than he needs them. He'll have lots of options.
Did you really just say ESPN needs Bill Simmons? I like Simmons, but ESPN certainly doesn't need any 1 personality/journalist. I think the WWL will be just fine.
And now we enter the massive crater called the Age of Whitlock.
/pukes
#TheUndefeatedisgonnabegreat
I love this comment from ESPN:
"Grantland, the sports and entertainment site run by Simmons for ESPN, will be unaffected by his departure, Skipper said."
SURE it won't. Without Simmons, is there really any reason to ever go to Grantland?
Did Simmons even do anything on Grantland? He certainly didn't write very many articles. Maybe he was the key creative figure behind its creation but how involved was he?
Simmons was great but his star, at least as far as being an anchor writer, seems to have been diminishing for the last few years. Without the reach of ESPN and in a much more crowded field, I wouldn't be surprised to see his star start to fade.
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I think he might actually enjoy being on TNT a lot more than his ESPN NBA appearances. The TNT guys are allowed to say a lot more than the ESPN guys are. Simmons would probably enjoy that.
I could see him signing with Time Warner. That would allow him to create a new site on Bleacher Report and give more legitamcy to that, it would allow him to continue producing sports docs for HBO, and it would give him access to TNT NBA coverage. The only thing Time Warner doesn't have is skin in the NFL. Not sure how important that would be to him.
I'm sure tnt would love to scoop him up for nba coverage.
Leaving the wwl frees up the possibility do some stuff for inside the nfl on showtime if he's still interested in football.
I just could never stand his lispy milquetoast delivery, but other than that he seemed to know his stuff. Can't say he will be missed, but he was tolerable, especially amongst their other "personalities".
Agreed. That said, Simmons would be the first to say he's a writer and not a radio/TV guy...
I would like to see him replace Shaq on TNT. Ernie, Kenny and Charles are great together and adding Simmons would make that show even better.
He was the guy who hired all those great writers.
Who the f do you think hired all those writers you like?!? I'm not a fan of BS's deteriorating individual contributions, but he runs his site well, which is a bigger deal.
I guess we will learn in short order just how critical he is on a day to day basis for grantland now that it is rolling.
I don't know, I don't read Grantland that often. There sports coverage is ok, and there entertainment coverage ranges from ok to really solid. They did some funny pieces on game of thrones and 24 live another day. Overall, they are serviceable.
Most of them were already known and established among hardcore fans in their respective sports. Everyone who follows the NFL closely knew about Football Outsiders. Chris Brown and Smart Football was featured on blogs everywhere. Brian Phillips (Run of Play) was one of the best around. It's not like Simmons was discovering talent. He just could make offers with ESPN's backing to get those guys.
I will give Simmons credit for having the idea to start Grantland, but he has pretty much outlived his value now to the site.
That is fine, if you view Grantland as just a sports website. Since it is more than just a sports website, I think he did a great job of hiring writers for the non-sports side.
You could make the same case for the writers on the non-sports side. Most of these people were already established presences on the internet in their various fields. He had a great idea to bring all these bloggers under the ESPN umbrella. But he needed ESPN's clout and wallet to make it happen.
this is really harsh. Sure, people who follow closely know about those names, but they weren't exactly working for the WWL. Charles Pierce is the only person there who had written for top magazines or web-sites before going there. Everyone else was a niche player with skills that most sites would have seen as being to nerdy/speciaized to be acceptable for a broad audience. SI.com or a newspaper never would have hired people who talk in detail about gambling, assume readers care about statistics, or do those crazy/awesome chart shots.
Grantland is like nothing I've ever seen and it's the best sports site by miles. The editor must have played a role in that.
Of course, every article is twice as long as it should be. I'm positive the editor played a role in that.
People massively undervalue site managers and editors. Simmons is a great writer, but I think his best asset is easily his ability to manage people, recruit quality contributors, and create unique ways to post content. From my experience, I think people would be amazed at how much organization and thought goes into just the process of running sites like that.
Grantland is going to be fine without Simmons because he's built a strong enough core there, but it's definitely going to be impacted.
Simmons hasn't been a good writer in almost a decade. Heck, he barely even writes anymore. I almost feel Grantland has helped him more than he has helped Grantland. He essentially scooped up a lot of the hottest writers and bloggers with ESPN's wallet. I think that is replaceable. Simmons didn't make Brian Phillips (Run of Play) great. Football Outsiders was already great. Chris Brown and Smart Football were already great. Most of these guys were already known quantities on the internet. Simmons just opened ESPN's wallet and offered the promise of more exposure.
Simmons is like that old, rich guy who thinks he is still cool or on the cutting edge and tries to maintain that image by surrounding himself with younger people.
Yes...
Lowe is fantastic for NBA, and while I don't follow it as much as other sports he makes me want to follow it more; some of the other NBA writing isn't great, but whatever. I like Keri for MLB. Their hockey coverage is actually really hilarious and fun to read even though they don't promote it in Baker and McIndoe. I think Barnwell and Mays do fairly good NFL work, they usually take a different angle than mainstream NFL places.
Their college stuff is solid too, with Holly Anderson, Matt Hinton, etc. About the only weakness to me in the big sports was college basketball (Mark Titus is pretty funny though for a Buckeye). There pop culture stuff got too hot takey for me like most reviews do, but I'm not sure there's much Simmons could have done about it.
Honestly Simmons' columns continue to get more and more bland and I find myself caring less about them, but I do think he did a good job putting together the staff (if that was mostly him).
I think Grantland can survive very capably without Simmons. Its populated with a number of good writers who talk about more than sports. Simmons is by far the least interesting name on the site.
but how many of those writers would follow Simmons if he wanted to do something next? Non-compete timelines aside, etc etc
I think you'll see a good amount of writers follow him. Depending on who they get to take over Simmons role at Grantland, you could see a culture shift there. Simmons and the culture he was promising was a big reason he was able to bring in so many writers for Grantland. It'll definitely be interesting to see what happens to the site after he leaves.
I think approximately zero writers will follow Simmons if he starts something similar on something like SB Nation or Yahoo Sports or whatever, but we have no idea what his next move is.
I think ESPN and their wallet had a lot more do to with the recruitment of talented writers than Bill Simmons. I think you are far overvaluing Simmons. The writers are going to go where they can get the best stories, readership, and salary. That had almost everything to do with the ESPN on Simmons' business card, not his own name.
An example most people on this site can relate to: Why did TomVH leave mgoblog? Why did Tim Sullivan leave mgoblog? Why did Brandon Brown leave mgoblog? I will give you hint: it had nothing to with the editor of the sites.
The bigger question is if ESPN will decide to abandon Grantland because it is not making any revenue for them. Those writers are good enough that they will always have an outlet to reach readers, but it was nice that they got ESPN's budget to play with.
Yeah, I'm guessing at least a couple of those guys at Grantland will leave with Simmons, and there might be some bigger names (Lowe and Barnwell in particular seem like Simmons' guys).
ESPN is trying to get out ahead of this news, which is their job and I understand their position. But Simmons helped create Grantland and was a driving force behind 30 for 30. ESPN will probably be able to keep the latter going, but Grantland/Simmons are still one of their best assets for actual commentary, and you have to think Simmons is going to air some dirty laundry on them when he's out in September.
Personally, I've hated the way ESPN handles its "sports coverage" over the years, ignoring controversies and being the mouthpiece for the NFL and (to an extent) the NBA while severely limiting the ability of its writers to comment. They aren't going anywhere, obviously, but I for one have less desire to check out the ESPN sites when I know the only discussions will be Stephen A. and Skip trolling for "controversy" and neutered discussions on crappy shows like Hot Take. Heck, I used to like Beadle and now I find her utterly obnoxious.
If Brian Phillips was the only writer for Grantland that would be reason enough to continue to go. As it is they have him, Holly, Hinton, Brown, Katie Baker, Jonah Keri, Rembert, and many more.
What about 30 for 30? Those are surely gonna fall off a cliff now too right?
I know I'm in the minority here but I really, really like Simmons and enjoy his work. I think his basketball analysis is very good (biased but he doesnt try and hide it which is refreshing) and Grantland is my #2 site visited daily behind this one.
I think ESPN is going to miss him a lot more than he's going to miss them. Oh well - at least that frees up more valuable air time for such deep thinkers as Jason Whitlock, Steven A Smith, Colin Cowherd & Chris Berman.
That's news to me, I like him and I was under the impression most people do, especially NBA fans. More so his podcast and writing than his tv appearences.
This article sums up my issue with Simmons pretty well... yeah deadspin I know.
http://deadspin.com/bill-simmons-is-a-name-dropping-waste-1691345977
Although to be fair, I generally don't like articles that just break apart something line by line with a snarky response, I think it's low hanging fruit. But yeah the name dropping is excessive.
I also enjoy some of the articles on deadspin, so no complaints about the source, not sure what this says about me...
That's fair.
I was a HUGE fan of www.firejoemorgan.com so I enjoy that style of just tearing an article apart, but can easily see how it's just snagging low hanging fruit (which... it totally is haha)
People mostly get the criticisms of Simmons, but Deadspin (and specifically Drew Magary) taking shots at a guy for exploiting connections and being a little lazy as a writer is the height of hypocrisy. Drew in particular had a fastball about 5 years ago that he just keeps throwing despite the fact everyone knows its coming and have timed it perfectly. His frat-boy snark-rage is just impossible for me to get through anymore.
I can't disagree with that one at all.
His columns feel mostly mailed in and regurgitated to me now. But I listen to most of his podcasts. I don't like him as much as I used to but he's an enjoyable follow, one of the better things about ESPN's internet presence.
I like when Zach Lowe is there to counter him/call him out
My favorite podcasts are the ones he does with Klosterman occasionally (something about the two interacting is funny to me and also makes them better together than separately) and the guess the lines with Sal. Lowe is a solid guest as well.
I don't follow the NBA as much as I used to so it did get kinda annoying that he focused pretty much exclusively on it the last couple years... always enjoy Sal ribbing him for that a bit. Simmons is best to me when he's basically a facilitator to have a guest with more expertise in their field correct him on something.
Lakers fans and fans of NY sports teams tend to hate Simmons becuase of his love for Boston sports teams.
I liked him before he moved to LA. After that he started name dropping famous people, wrote less and less, devoted more time to his podcast (which is whatever, but I can't really deal with his voice more than once in a great while). Also, it seemed like he was starting to rely on the same handful of references and jokes/sayings more and more (i.e.: "...as the people of [insert city here] now set themselves on fire," numerous Jersey Shore comparisons that make almost no sense, etc...)
For the record, I don't hate Simmons, I'm just not his target audience anymore and therefore I haven't read much of his in the last 5 years or so.
EDIT: Also, I feel like I should add this: My older brother is a massive Boston Red Sox fan and used to adore Bill Simmons, but now he can barely even tolerate his Boston articles.
EDIT 2: I will absolutely give him some credit for being a major force in the 30 for 30 stuff. Most of those are absolutely fantastic!
Britt McHenry is back!!!!! ESPN!!!!!
Champ Kind..... Whammmy!!!!
He can be sometimes irritating and his voice isn't made for TV, but I do think he is one of the few genuinely funny and irreveremtly clever sports writers/personalities out there.
WTKA. That would be celebration time.
Bill Simmons brought to ESPN the only two good things -- the 30 for 30 series and Grantland -- that the worldwide leader has done in 15 years. This is really annoying to me. Skip Bayless is still employed at ESPN. Skip Bayless.
Skip does exactly what they want him to do: Troll the world. He attracts eyes with his waste of -well everything- and useless opinions, and that is valuable. ESPN isn't journalistic anymore...they are about opinion and TMZ-sports.
I think it is important to look at why ESPN has turned into TMZ. Unfortunatley, our society has turned into people that don't care about good, solid, journalism. It seems like most everyone is after sensationalism. If millions of eyeballs didn't watch Skip and Stephen A, ESPN would have them gone in 2 seconds. It's ironic that Stephen A's garbage wasn't thought highly of when I was in high school; does anyone remember his show "Quite Frankly." He basically did what he does every day on First Take, except it was at night and there was no Skip. It couldn't be cancelled fast enough. Now, he's probably one of the most popular people on ESPN. What happened in 10 years?
Stephen A was essentially blacklisted by the network at one point. You weren't allowed to book him as a guest after he was fired. Then, there were some changes high up in the company, he was brought back on First Take as a guest, and then they wound up building the entire show around him and Skip. And the rest is troll history.