OT: Pickett's TD after fake slide
I can say with confidence that no one on this board saw this happen live because they were all busy doing watching something else. I understand pushing the rules to the limit to obtain a competitive advantage, but this is a dick move. The dude pretends to give himself up, the defense lets up, he then keeps going and scores. The penalty for this should be getting punched in the face.
December 5th, 2021 at 11:00 AM ^
You got to at least 2 hand touch him..thats on the defender.
December 5th, 2021 at 11:20 AM ^
That's the NFL buddy.
Once a QB initiates a slide, he is untouchable (hitting I mean) in college.
Genuine d1ck move that will get someone hurt when defenders don't believe the QB is REALLY gonna slide.
December 5th, 2021 at 11:25 AM ^
My, my, my. When did we get so up tight? Dick move? This is Footbaw dagnabbit! Deception is a fundamental.
December 5th, 2021 at 11:28 AM ^
Refs never honor this rule anyway. The solution to this is to eliminate the slide rule entirely. It's a bad, dangerous play.
December 5th, 2021 at 12:18 PM ^
Im not saying for him to be down by rule, BUDDY...im saying, as a defender you cant just assume the guy is going to slide..you at least have to get on him and touch him to assure he does...otherwise, you can get fooled, BUD
December 5th, 2021 at 1:33 PM ^
Wow - you took offense when you didn't know the rule.
It's ok. Michigan is B1G Champs. Focus on that vs. Misplaced anger.
December 5th, 2021 at 11:00 AM ^
This is scary. You and I both posted the same random question within seconds of the other.
Edit. Mods feel free to delete my thread or just keep it as a Carter Selzer appreciation thread.
December 5th, 2021 at 11:00 AM ^
I don’t know which thread to post under. But… I think it’s deceiving and should be a penalty.
December 5th, 2021 at 11:04 AM ^
Could the "intent to deceive" rule have been applied?
December 5th, 2021 at 11:04 AM ^
The problem is, if he's "fake sliding" and gets lit up, the officials won't know he was fake sliding and the defensive back can't know. Should be down where the "slide" started.
December 5th, 2021 at 11:39 AM ^
I wonder if he practices this move or he quickly changed his mind on the fly. Practicing is a dick move; split second decision isn’t (IMHO).
December 5th, 2021 at 11:07 AM ^
Once you begin the process of a slide, you are down at that point. They will have to adjust this rule.
December 5th, 2021 at 11:10 AM ^
Yep. It’s probably the first time any QB has ever done it like that. It’s completely unfair to the defender for the QB to fake slide and then keep going. It’ll be interesting to see if the rule gets tweaked.
December 5th, 2021 at 11:07 AM ^
Should be a penalty. Defender in a lose lose situation. Hit him and get a penalty, let up like he's been taught and the qb scores. Total bush league move in my opinion
December 5th, 2021 at 11:10 AM ^
Yes, this needs to be addressed in the offseason. Down at the spot plus penalty, IMO. You can't benefit from rules made to keep you safe and then exploit them.
December 5th, 2021 at 11:12 AM ^
If this happened in a game that a lot people actually watched and the outcome was close, I suspect it'd be a much discussed thing with the QB under quite a bit of fire...but it was the ACC title game between two teams with pretty small fan bases and no real playoff implications.
As far as the play in isolation goes, it's a sneaky move. I could say that this shows the Sparty values Narduzzi has established at Pitt. Actually, yeah let's run with that.
December 5th, 2021 at 11:20 AM ^
Narduzzi is a human turd, end of story.
December 5th, 2021 at 11:13 AM ^
Bush league
December 5th, 2021 at 11:15 AM ^
Don't blame the QB for trying it. But this is a no win scenario for the defensive players where you lose no matter what you do.
I still believe, and always will, the QB slide shouldnt exist. Once youve decided to run with the ball and are past the LOS you are a running back. I dont know why you stop playing football for one player on the field just because he has decided to make a baseball play.
December 5th, 2021 at 11:16 AM ^
Watching it I don't think it was a fake based on how awkward it looked. I think he truly intended to slide and at the last minute changed his mind. I doubt it was pre-meditated. Nonetheless it should warrant a flag if defenders are forced to ease up on the tackle.
December 5th, 2021 at 11:21 AM ^
Well, its still a fake slide regardless of initial intent or not.
December 5th, 2021 at 11:16 AM ^
They either need to make this a penalty or mark him down where he initiates the fake slide, but CFB cannot allow QBs to take advantage of a move designed to maintain their own safety
December 5th, 2021 at 11:17 AM ^
I understand playing through the whistle, and that football is a contact sport and all of that but the slide rule is designed specifically to protect the QB.
I am not sure about a penalty, but the QB should just be counted down where he faked the motion to slide.
My thoughts are that the "fake" should be ruled as a normal slide and that when a QB even starts the motion to slide he is down at that location.
If that guy didn't back off and laid him out, he absolutely gets a penalty for it, if not ejected.
Something for them to look at for sure.
December 5th, 2021 at 11:17 AM ^
If you throw the ball you aren’t supposed to get hit afterwards, you guys gonna flag a pump fake now too, or how about when players act like they are gonna go out of bounds but don’t? Hate em cuz you ain’t em.
December 5th, 2021 at 11:23 AM ^
"If you throw the ball you aren’t supposed to get hit afterwards, you guys gonna flag a pump fake now too?" ----No, because the QB could still get hit right after his pump fake. This is almost the worst example you could use and nearly the opposite of the situation haha.
December 5th, 2021 at 11:30 AM ^
I don’t think opposite means what you think it means. This is a thread with people who think a penalty should be called because a guy either thought about sliding and didn’t or just flat faked it. In the game of football we are gonna end plays when guys don’t even slide now???
December 5th, 2021 at 11:35 AM ^
He should, at the very least, be down at that spot where he began the fake slide.
December 5th, 2021 at 2:00 PM ^
In your example, the play is still live, the QB can still throw the ball and can still get hit. In a slide situation, the play is over as soon as a QB slides and there is a penalty/possible ejection if a defender hits the QB. Glad I could help you understand why your example is stupid and the opposite of the problem everyone is talking about
December 5th, 2021 at 3:07 PM ^
Except he didn’t slide. He leaned back slightly. The play was still alive in every sense. Found all the guys that got juked on the playground.
December 5th, 2021 at 11:18 AM ^
Compare this play to Cade's head first dive on 3rd and 12 while up a bazillion to 3.
December 5th, 2021 at 1:04 PM ^
I appreciated this on Cade's part when it happened. A week ago in a similar situation he slid, thinking he had a first down, and the refs marked the ball back where he started thinking about sliding, well short of the line to gain. It wasn't even marked where the ball was when his knee hit the ground, which I think it where it should have been marked (granted, I don't know the exact rule). Last night he dove to get the first down, knowing that the defensive players might take a free shot at him (and, if it was against certain other teams, you know they would have!).
December 5th, 2021 at 11:21 AM ^
Why is that any different a play than a qb like Aaron Rodgers faking a pass or lateral while on a run past the LOS? Technically, you can't throw a forward pass past the LOS, so the intention to throw in that situtation unless behind you is always deception to avoid contact and continue running. And we had a similar play in our game when Petras left the pocket and got crunched as a running back, not a defenseless runner.
Pitt's qb may have faked as if he was going to slide but he's not subject to defenseless runner rules until that happens. He's a ball carrier until he is down by contact. How you choose to hit him after getting faked out is an altogether different question.
December 5th, 2021 at 11:27 AM ^
I think the difference is that the QB is off limits at the moment he begins his sliding motion. In this case, he began the sliding motion and you can clearly see the Wake defender pull up. He was in a perfect position to make a play on Pickett but had to stop.
December 5th, 2021 at 11:33 AM ^
"He's a ball carrier until he is down by contact" --- Um, no. Since this is college football, he is not down by contact. You do not have to be touched to be down in college. This has been the rule for a very long time my man. Also, if the QB does slide, he is down at the spot where he starts his slide. Not sure why you are going on about defenseless runner right here, and you are not correct in your understanding of the rules anyway.
"And we had a similar play in our game when Petras left the pocket and got crunched as a running back, not a defenseless runner." - Again, not sure why you are using the defenseless runner thing, but your example here isnt helping you. Petras didnt slide, and he got crunched. If he would have slid, he wouldnt not have got destroyed, and if he did, UM would have gotten a penalty for that. Your example here is the exact reason why the Wake Forest players did not hit Pickett lol.
December 5th, 2021 at 11:34 AM ^
You are mistaken. Per the 2021 NCAA Football Rulebook, Rule 2-Definitions, Section 27-Team and Player Designations, Article 14j, "A ball carrier who has obviously given themselves up and is sliding feet-first," is a defenseless player.
December 5th, 2021 at 12:43 PM ^
Pitt QB never really did get to the point of "obviously giving themselves up and is sliding feet first."
He did a move that made it appear that he was about to slide feet first/give himself up. But then he never got to the point of going feet first or giving himself up.
December 5th, 2021 at 11:37 AM ^
Faking a pass beyond the LOS isn't the same as faking to slide.
You aren't protected as a passer by faking the pass. If he were to actually pass it and then get planted beyond the LOS there isn't a roughing the passer call. Or if he throws the ball behind him legally, and gets planted, no penalty.
Whereas if he continues the slide and gets planted, that guy likely gets thrown out of the game for targeting. At minimum a 15 yard penalty.
The only other actual scenario that compares is when players pretend like they are running out of bounds to get the D to pull up then cut up field. But even with that, there isn't a penalty for hitting someone in play, like there is for hitting a sliding QB.
In the NFL, you need to touch him for him the be down, so it's on the players to continue the play, but in college it is emphasized to pull up completely when a guy gives himself up, as he is down when he begins the slide.
December 5th, 2021 at 11:38 AM ^
I have to read the rule book but I believe that every rule that intends to protect players should be position blind. A runner is a runner, a passer is a passer. A runner directly take snap from the center should not be treated differently from other runners.
December 5th, 2021 at 12:45 PM ^
Agree --Signed, Donovan Edwards.
December 5th, 2021 at 11:42 AM ^
I’m not a Wake Forest fan or otherwise I’d feel differently, but that was a legal play and a damn good one at that
December 5th, 2021 at 11:42 AM ^
I am a big fan of Kenny Pickett's ability and hope the Lions are able to get him with their second 1st rd pick. That said, this sucked.
I have been increasingly against the slide rule, for this reason amongst others. Think of how careful tacklers have to be and still get kicked out / almost get kicked out on tackles (see Rod Moore). They should not have to guess, once a player initiates a slide whether he's faking or not.
December 5th, 2021 at 1:04 PM ^
They need to change the targeting rule.
Moore did have his head in there, and there was helmet on helmet contact. But Moore was not leading with the crown in a careless or dangerous way. He was just making a regular football play and using a regular tackling technique. But...the review tool forever, so he was very close to being ejected.
The rules should incent D players to avoid targeting type contact, but ALSO incent offensive players to avoid precipitating or contributing to helmet on helmet contact.
They need to change the rule so that a defensive player is NOT ejected IF both (1) the D player is not careless or using an improper technique AND (2) the offensive ball carrier's intentional body movements in seeking football advantage meaningfully contributes to the helmet on helmet contact.
The Iowa player was seeking to squeeze out an extra yard. That meant his body and head were rotating and going forward in space as Moore went in for the tackle assist.
The rule should not put all of the blame/responsibility on the defender, at least not if ejection is the penalty.
The offensive player too should have a responsibility/incentive to not make moves that causally contribute to helmet on helmet contact.
A better rule would penalize the defender, but not eject the defender if the ball carrier's own intentional movements that seek football advantage meaningfully contribute to the helmet on helmet contact.
IOW, ejection should occur only if the defender alone creates the helmet on helmet contact.
December 5th, 2021 at 11:43 AM ^
The refs let the corpse of Peyton Manning slide, pop back up and run for more yards against the Steelers during his final playoff run.
December 5th, 2021 at 12:06 PM ^
15 yd penalty from previous spot. Loss of down.
and a punch in the face.
December 5th, 2021 at 1:05 PM ^
Actions like this QB's are why hockey should never get rid of fighting. Somebody would be getting punched for this if it were hockey.
December 5th, 2021 at 12:07 PM ^
Do that once you should be fair game the rest the day!
December 5th, 2021 at 2:17 PM ^
I did see this live as I have a two TV setup and went to Pitt for grad school. I think the play is fine. We as sports fans tend to overreact to one-play anomalies and think we need to reinvent the whole rules system too often when they occur. The likelihood this is a common or readily repeatable thing is extremely low. Just write it off as cool and move on.
December 5th, 2021 at 2:59 PM ^
I dont think most casual football fans like plays where a defender is in lose lose scenario. Great for Pitt fan but im not sure anyone else liked it. If an OSU qb pulled this we would collectively lose our minds.
December 5th, 2021 at 7:44 PM ^
clearly was intent to deceive them into thinking he was going to slide.
the rule is lame to begin with, QB or no you run with the ball they can light you up.
take the QB slide rule OUT of the game is the answer.
December 5th, 2021 at 3:00 PM ^
Honestly, this should have been blown dead. Once a slide is initiated the QB is officially ending the play. If the defender hits him he puts himself at risk for a penalty.
This happened to Cade yesterday. As soon as he started a slide play was over he was short of the line to gain. Even though he wasn't touched and ended past the marker. The play was over when he initiated his slide attempt.
Faking is the same thing.
Bad precedent to set.