OT (for now...): Good article updating & summarizing FSU's legal battle with ACC
A surprisingly detailed article (in an SBNation site, no less) discussing recent developments in the FSU vs ACC saga as well as providing some background and analysis of the situation.
Very interesting.
February 1st, 2024 at 9:08 AM ^
Legit question. Is there anything to stop the SEC or Big-10 from just buying out the ACC wholesale, and then keeping the teams they want, or creating a SEC/Big10 South?
I have to believe it would cost less than the combined buyouts of all the teams individually.
February 1st, 2024 at 9:54 AM ^
This may not be a situation in which "buying in bulk" makes sense. If you buyout the ACC wholesale, you get a lot of baggage in form of BC, UVA, Miami, GT, Wake, and even Duke/UNC. Most of the ACC isn't worth it from a football perspective, and that's the only perspective that matters here.
Does your football team draw better TV ratings than the average in the existing conference? If yes, they're worth adding. If no, they are not worth adding. FSU would be a boon to either the SEC or B1G by that metric, but I struggle to envision anyone else in that conference getting there. UNC, Duke, and UVA are inveterate basketball schools. Miami, I frankly don't think will ever get "back." Wake, GT, and BC are lost causes. Maybe Louisville or VT could get there? But they strike me as investment projects rather than instant wins.
I just don't think the math would make sense for buying the whole conference.
February 1st, 2024 at 10:22 AM ^
It's definitely a bit of a crazy idea, and I don't think it would happen, but to me the math isn't mathing on the ACC.
On one end, these schools are on the low end of financial performance compared to the Big10/SEC. Even FSU's numbers showing them as the powerhouse in the ACC, would be middle of the old Big10, and on the lower end of the new Big10.
Yet, they have these exorbitant buyouts and rights deals that FSU, and likely some of their counterparts, are going to spend insane money to fight.
If I were a private equity firm, or one of the other conferences, I'd see an opportunity to buy in bulk at a discount, retain the teams that make money, and sell of the ones that don't make as much, while bypassing any financial penalties.
February 1st, 2024 at 10:28 AM ^
What's the math on FB vs BB revenue? Every school you listed is 11x better than us at basketball right now. and if its high revenue generating, not to mention it increases the average B10 attendance by having UNC/Duke, etc... come to town, perhaps the math works out better.
I woudl assume that Football is significantly higher on the revenue scale though
February 1st, 2024 at 10:56 AM ^
I haven't seen it broken out, but I think the difference is likely to be vast. If basketball could pay the bills as well as football, then "basketball only" schools (I realize some of these HAVE football teams; it's about whether their football program is P5 comparable the way their basketball programs are) like Gonzaga or Creighton or Villanova or Xavier or whoever would look a lot more like Michigan or Texas. They don't because basketball, while profitable, is probably a side hustle compared to the real money coming from football.
To your point, all those teams are WAY better than Michigan at basketball, and frankly it doesn't seem to matter. For all the Warde hate, I think he'd be a lot less blase about criticizing Juwan mid-season if the basketball team's suckitude seriously impacted Michigan AD's bottom line.
February 1st, 2024 at 1:55 PM ^
A useful rule of thumb is that Duke's basketball revenues are roughly equal to their football revenues.
February 1st, 2024 at 9:54 AM ^
That's a creative, if crazy idea. Those ACC schools aren't stupid. They would have to vote for a buyout deal when most of them know the SEC and Big Ten doesn't want them. How much TV revenue would the remnants of the ACC generate?
February 1st, 2024 at 9:58 AM ^
I feel like the schools getting kicked out would demand a golden parachute to leave. That plan gives Wake (for example) too much power because they can simply refuse to leave and pull in disproportionate revenue sharing until their demands are met. Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I feel like that would create a situation where Wake and GT are perversely holding Michigan and OSU hostage.
February 1st, 2024 at 11:42 AM ^
I don't think a couple of ACC schools hold the ability to keep everyone else from leaving. The issue I see is that a majority of their schools know they have nowhere else to go. So far, they do have the ability to keep a few schools from leaving for greener pastures.
February 1st, 2024 at 10:12 AM ^
Why spend the money now - and for the whole thing? The more lucrative schools in the ACC (FSU very publicly but others privately) are working on ways to get out. Let them spend the time & money working it out... the Big Ten and SEC can just bide their time waiting to snatch up the tasty bits when things fall apart.
What the Big Ten *should* be doing now (if it hasn't already) is negotiating behind the scenes with FSU and FOX to have a plan in place ready to go at a moment's notice. The SEC might want to take FSU if they become available, but ESPN may not be a willing partner on letting that happen.
February 1st, 2024 at 11:38 AM ^
It makes sense to let FSU do the work and take whatever risks they can bear. Let Fox help them fi they want. My understanding is that ESPN would have to maintain the same payouts per school or it would be easier for Clemson, Miami or anyone else to follow FSU out.
February 1st, 2024 at 9:25 AM ^
Most of the people who run things are incompetent, somnolent or corrupt. Often all three. College athletics is just a glaring example.
February 1st, 2024 at 10:32 AM ^
I appreciate your willingness to include a charitable view of a certain AD in that sentence, very awake and alert of you.
February 3rd, 2024 at 9:49 PM ^
Some people are in charge for no reason ~ Brian
February 1st, 2024 at 9:27 AM ^
A very long and detailed article indeed so I'll summarize it.
1. FSU knows that FSU is the cash-cow in the ACC
2. FSU is not treated like the cash-cow and the schools in the ACC that nobody gives a shit about benefit greatly from the number of eyeballs on the TV screen when FSU plays them.
3. FSU wants out of the ACC because they're tired of carrying the weight of the conference with no real benefit to them
Swap out FSU for Michigan and B1G for ACC and you have the same damn story. It's just one school is fighting back against being taken advantadge of and one school is hard-wired to accept whatever bullshit their conference decides.
February 1st, 2024 at 9:33 AM ^
The sad thing is that I thought "wow that sounds like us" before I even reached your last paragraph...
February 1st, 2024 at 10:03 AM ^
Yes, Michigan needs to start throwing their weight around to get a proportional share of revenue. But it's probably going to wait until the next B1G media deals are starting to be discussed.
FSU's situation has one fundamental difference from Michigan's. They consider themselves a peer, but make a lot less money than every SEC and B1G school. It's going to be a huge deal when revenue sharing with players becomes a reality, and they know it will.
February 1st, 2024 at 10:07 AM ^
I'm reminded of this whenever I think of Michigan in the B1G
You got this lion.
He’s the king of the jungle, huge mane out to here. He’s laying under a tree, in the middle of Africa. He’s so big, it’s so hot. He doesn’t want to move.
Now the little lions come, they start messing with him. Biting his tail, biting his ears. He doesn’t do anything. The lioness, she starts messing with him. Coming over, making trouble. Still nothing.
Now the other animals, they notice this. They start to move in.
The jackals; hyenas. They’re barking at him, laughing at him. They nip his toes, and eat the food that’s in his domain.
They do this, then they get closer and closer, bolder and bolder.
Till one day, that lion gets up and tears the shit out of everybody.
Runs like the wind, eats everything in his path.
Cause every once in a while, the lion has to show the jackals who he is.
February 1st, 2024 at 10:23 AM ^
Except... jackals, working cooperatively as a pack, are known to kill lions when they are alone.
FSU is far and away more valuable than the other ACC schools, which is why they are working so hard to get a better deal or get out.
Michigan may be the most valuable program in the Big Ten (or #2, depending on the year and metrics used), but... there are/will be others that are close. Penn State, USC, Oregon... UCLA and Nebraska when they get their programs back in order, even Washington and Wisconsin are somewhat close. There are some proverbial dregs in the Big Ten, but the overall disparity in value is not as stark as in the current ACC.
Plus... FSU actually has options for getting better deals elsewhere and can use that for leverage. We really don't have that option (a ND-like independent path will likely pay less than staying in the Big Ten... and might not even be feasible, while the SEC might be able to pay more but they probably wouldn't be interested).
February 1st, 2024 at 10:42 AM ^
I was gonna say, I remember when 13 jackals started whining together and got the lion suspended for 3 games.
February 1st, 2024 at 10:52 AM ^
If we are talking safari analogies...
I would say the ACC is a moderately sized lion, a small lion, a few above average jackals, and some wild dogs.
The Big Ten is more akin to two large dominant lions, a few small/moderate lions (one wearing a goofy-looking scarf), a cheetah, some jackals, some wild dogs... and a very large rock. More dangerous in general (even the rock for those foolish enough to be under it and let the defense crush it to death).
February 1st, 2024 at 10:45 AM ^
“ There are some proverbial dregs in the Big Ten, but the overall disparity in value is not as stark as in the current ACC.“
I’d say indiana is as bad as BC
February 1st, 2024 at 10:55 AM ^
Approx. 2022 AD revenue (all sports, merch, rights, etc.):
BC: $87M
IU: $167M
February 1st, 2024 at 10:34 AM ^
I sure hope I see this from UM in my lifetime...
February 1st, 2024 at 11:00 AM ^
I wouldn’t bet on it with Harbaugh gone and Warde still firmly in the AD spot. We can hope though.
February 1st, 2024 at 11:45 AM ^
I know the approval rating of the B1G conference leadership is at an all-time low around these parts, but unequal revenue sharing is one of those short-sighted ideas that eventually cause problems down the road. It's what led the Big XII to splinter and nearly collapse back in 2010. Equal revenue sharing ensures stability, which benefits everyone long term.
Having said that, we've already started down that path by adding Oregon and Washington at a discount, so we'll see what happens.
February 1st, 2024 at 12:02 PM ^
The discount is temporary and eventually everything (should) level off at equal compensation to all schools. Rutgers and Maryland had a similar initial discount.
February 1st, 2024 at 2:38 PM ^
Nebraska
Rutgers
Maryland
Oregon
Washington
Were all add at a discount ONLY temporarily.
Oppp, didn't read Crg response
February 1st, 2024 at 11:04 AM ^
If the PAC12 did so well in TV viewership why is it dead?
February 1st, 2024 at 11:10 AM ^
1) The PAC leadership was even more incompetent than the ACC.
2) The PAC had more schools with "better options" than trying to fight to keep the whole thing together. Most ACC schools are not getting invites to go to better conferences.
February 1st, 2024 at 12:36 PM ^
If [company] did so well in [product] sales, why is it dead?
Because the company sold the product for far less than it could have, and left money on the table voluntarily in the process.
February 1st, 2024 at 1:41 PM ^
The PAC-12 had horrible timing as well as incompetent leadership. If they were negotiating their new media deals now instead of a year ago, maybe they could have gotten a decent deal. But the deals they could get were far worse than the other conferences.
February 1st, 2024 at 11:49 AM ^
I fully expect the SEC to gobble up FSU/Clemson (The Only Two Worth A Damn)
Unfortunately the Big Ten will get the Frank Reynolds scraps of the Carolina/Virginia schools (Meh) and maybe Notre Dame if you consider them an ACC school.
It wouldn't bring in eyeballs too much, but I would really like to see the conference grab Pitt. Great school that gives PSU a natural rival (and likely impacts their recruiting) for the first time in forever.
February 1st, 2024 at 2:50 PM ^
Interesting article. Lots of detail about how FSU is getting screwed financially due to ACC corruption and incompetence.
The other side of the story: FSU made its own bed. I learned in law school:
"contracts are dangerous things; that's why we keep them away from children."
February 2nd, 2024 at 7:33 AM ^
The apparent Swofford corruption and nepotism angle is most interesting IMO. Not sure how that impacts their case from a legal perspective, but it prompts the questions of whether the school admins knew about the apparent conflict of interest going into the deal and, if so, how the hell did they go along with it? Seems like one of those in the country of the blind, the one-eyed man is king sort of things.