OT: Noose found at UM Hospital...Not actually a noose.
Wanted to post this since it was a topic of discussion several weeks ago. Looks like the most logical answer was the right answer.
Worth posting because there's often a lot of hand-wringing and "oh, the racism everywhere" when one of these stories comes out and almost no interest from the same people in what actually happened when the investigation is complete.
Good news all around.
I don't think you understand the concept of supply and demand. I didn't say racism doesn't exist. It clearly does unfortunately. I'm married to a Hispanic immigrant and I have a Hispanic daughter, so I see it first hand.
However, the definition of what racism means has changed so much, it has in a sense shot up the supply even when a good portion of these incidents are not even racist at all. For example, you mention "dozens of black people this past year alone videotaping footage of white people threatening to call the cops on them for selling lemonade, BBQing in a park, camping". Without any context, background information etc., I cannot draw a conclusion that any of these were racist acts. Perhaps they were racists acts, but perhaps they were being videotaped because they were trespassing. I dunno.
Wasn't an econ major, so, no, my grasp of the supply-demand curve is dodgy at best.
But, your notion of a "demand" for racism to get performatively outraged over bespeaks you not seeing the forest for the trees. Sure, yes, that happens. And yes, it shouldn't but it does because people are imperfect and prone to overreact to things.
It still doesn't change the fact that unconscious racism is still an everyday fact of life for many black people especially when engaging within predominantly white spaces. A lot of times the bias is unconscious, as well. Racism is not just the Klan burning crosses - if it was that simple, it'd be less of a problem. There could be any number of factors in individual cases, but you're far more likely to be suspected or cited for trespassing or theft or other criminality if you're black. So, to posit that demand for racism outweighs its supply speaks to me of a severe deficit in understanding the casual racism that many black people do experience.
Now what are we supposed to get angry about?
Give it 5 minutes.
Every. Single. Time.
What happened every single time?
The demand for racism (by grifters and woke warriors) far outstrips the supply of genuine racism.
I swear I didn't just plagerize your quote (see above)
I don't think this is true. There always is, and always will be, racism. I think nowadays it is much more subtle than it used to be. It used to be way more in your face.
Maybe we can hire you to be head inquisitor to see who the ̶w̶i̶t̶c̶h̶e̶s̶ subtle racists are so we can burn them at the stake.
None are so blind as those who will not see. There are those on both sides that thrive on outrage and, yes, we have seen progress, but examples of racism abound. Charlottesville, the multiple examples of domestic terrorism, the president's twitter feed, the oddly enduring practice of donning blackface (here's an instructive and jaw-dropping examination of that little bit of americana)
and on and on. And that doesn't even get into institutional barriers in our justice system, education, homeownership that were set up explicitly to discriminate and endure to this day. I'm sure it's comforting to believe what you believe. It's no fun to acknowledge the truth that the legacy of 200+ years of slavery followed by 100+ years of Jim Crow didn't just go away. But it's real and the sooner we acknowledge it the sooner we get to a better place.
Please God keep talking about "the president's twitter feed" being an "example of racism". These are your words. I'd like to hand you the biggest possible megaphone so you can scream this at all the swing voters in the 2020 election.
(yawn)
BAN FISHING.
I want to once again thank the staff at MGoBlog for recently fixing my points issue and allowing me to quietly voice my support via votes.
Holy shit, you guys.
I don't know.... why don't you tell us what you would do.
But even then nooses are not a hate symbol toward any specific group so it still doesn't make much sense.
This:
nooses are not a hate symbol toward any specific group
is just so obviously wrong I don't know where to start.
Obviously this particular story turns out to have been a misunderstanding, but a noose is very specifically a threat to African Americans, in addition to whatever other message it may be trying to convey.
nooses are not a hate symbol toward any specific group
That's like saying a burning cross isn't a hate symbol toward any specific group. It's not just a hate symbol, it's an open threat of violence.
I guess much like the Betsy Ross flag and the OK hand symbol, we are all going to have to start tying our fishing knots differently lest they be misinterpreted. I'll try a bowline, but I don't think it will hold as well, and the poor fish will get away hook in mouth still.
(This is meant both as a sarcastic joke, and a sad commentary on current society where we let the extremes of both sides wag the dog.)
+1 for the bowline reference. Ex Navy perchance?
it was not a noose, but a moose on the loose, silly goose!
Dr Suess
Saw this but was waiting for the author of the first one to publish the second half of his story.
Kinda surprised this hasn't been locked yet.
Also kinda surprised at how many people desire to be the most "woke" as well as how many people want to pat themselves on the back because this turned out to be non-racist in the end.
You're right, we all suck. I win.
While I generally agree with the conservatives posting and circle jerking one another on this thread that the liberal reaction to the incident was emotional and rushed, the tone of the “I told you so” posts is pretty ironic as well. Many of the posts are basically saying because this turned out to be harmless, racism is overblown. Thats just as thoughtless.
Its quite difficult to assess because statistics on this area are limited and focused on reported incidents vs successfully prosecuted. There is a good summary on the trends here, though it is a little dated.
basically the only thing one can conclude is that confrontational rhetoric by political leaders does lead to increases in reported incidence. Again it’s difficult to assess if this is due to increase racist behavior by those who believe the racist rhetoric by their leaders or if it is increased sensitivity of minorities to that rhetoric that makes them feel they are being persecuted when they may not be.
Either way, can we at least agree that the president of the United States shouldn’t be telling citizens to go back to the countries from which they came? At the least it is extremely hurtful and alienates Americans of every culture who have migrated to this country based on its ideals of equality and opportunity. At its worst, idiotic pyschopaths can be influenced by the rhetoric to carry out horrible acts of cruelty. If you can’t agree on that, then you are worse than the social justice warriors towards whom you are hostile.
+1
I just moved into a new building with a bunch of kids/young adults. They lean left then i drive home to my rural home town (45min) and it's like a complete 180. Both can be so narrow minded about stuff.
I'm just curious. When you say "left" and "right," where does racism fit it? Are you saying that when you are with your left leaning friends, they oppose or abhor racism, but when you are with your rural friends and acquaintances, they are vocally racist? I'm trying to understand where "left" and "right" fits into this discussion.
I ask because many people seem to think this is a "political" discussion with talk of the "liberals" and "conservatives" and the left and the right, etc. etc., but I see it as a conversation about racism.
I'll try to make it simple even though it isn't.
The reactions to this very story would be extremely different depending on which location you are at even though they are not that far a part.
I definitely lean towards the conservative side, but i know there is still plenty of racism in this country. I hope it keeps getting pushed further and further into the backwoods country until it disappears. The problem i have is people screaming racism at every little thing that makes the news when it doesn't warrant that title. There is a lot of bad things that never even make the news. This incident is a good example. Previous thread people were out in full force like it was a certified fact.
I just want to know what you think "conservatism" and "racism" have in common, or put another way, why does one even come up in a conversation about the other?
Is it because you think more conservative people are racist? Or are less likely to see racism? What do you believe that a political ideology has to do with racism?
ijohnb .... I know you're not this dense because you've been on here ~10 years and I've read your comments but here goes nothing ....
Deep south = heart of racism in this country, historically speaking. I am no history professor, but pretty sure the north (Union) fought a war against the south (Confederacy) some time ago to end racist slavery because the south figured it was their "states right" to own people as property.
South, to this day, tends to have more overt racism. South is almost universally "deep red" meaning heavily leaning towards conservative/republican politics. Also, a majority of the folks who own/run racist propaganda (pretend media) outlets are overwhelmingly conservative leaning. All this leads to the perception, whether accurate or not, that the most common place to find a racist would be the right-leaning conservative population.
In conversations like these, people tend to generalize because no one wants to state their opinion then spend 27 minutes putting caveats on every statement, because as we all know, there are exceptions to every rule
Yes, we all know there are racists that are progressive and racists that are conservative. There are racist Dems and racist Repubs.
That was not my point. To the extent I had a distilled point, it was that he (and others on this thread) consider racism to be a "political leaning" now. It is now almost part of the conservative platform, racism is now a "side of the aisle."
That's sad.
It's not, but i'm sorry that its kind of defined that way in my area. I'm not trying to have some huge discussion on what i think is this and that because you know what everyone has a different opinion. Everyone goes through different experiences in life that determine these opinions. I could find something racist that you don't and vice versa.
Now?
There is a reason the South went Democratic from the Civil War until the Civil Rights Act. There is a reason the South has gone solidly Republican since the Civil Rights Act.
Racism has ALWAYS been a side of the aisle in American politics.
Funny that you've been downvoted but today you have a number to back it up: 240-187.
Agree with everything except the "almost." It's beyond dog-whistles now, it's straight up bullhorns and White Nationalist Call to Arms.
I'm sad you have that view of conservatives. There are many, yours truly included, who would identify as being more conservative but have no stomach or tolerance for racism. I would argue that those in politics now who are not actively condemning racist tweets are not real conservatives and are cowards and political hacks.
Yep. It seems commenters like 4godking that actually reflect poorly on liberals while he holds himself up as some sort of thought paragon.
I get what you are saying but let's be real. The republican party has been running on race-baiting since Nixon invented the "southern strategy". Do you think it's an accident that Reagan kicked off his 1980 presidential bid in Philadelphia, Mississippi, the site of the murder of four kids who were registering black voters? The speech was about "states rights". Not too subtle. Consider what Lee Atwater, the Republican political strategist, said about how it worked:
You start out in 1954 by saying, “N****r, n****r, n****r.” By 1968 you can’t say “n****r”—that hurts you, backfires. So you say stuff like, uh, forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff, and you’re getting so abstract. Now, you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites.… “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, uh, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “N****r, n****r.”
Eventually, though the dog whistles weren't enough so we now have a president who uses a foghorn. I agree with you that those who don't actively condemn racists are cowards and political hacks. Unfortunately, that means virtually every elected Republican is a coward because they don't want to stick their head up and risk getting primaried.
And sure, we shouldn't let liberals off the hook. The truth is that most white liberals live in lily-white enclaves and are more than happy to look the other way if it means their kids get into an ivy, decrying overt racism while clinging desperately to the privlidges that institutional racism provides them. Race is our country's original sin. It's pernicious, it runs deep and it certainly cuts across all kinds of lines of demarcation: ideology, religion, income, geography and the rest. But it's simply willful naivety to ignore that one party has made it a point to exploit those fault lines to win elections. It's been a conscious strategy and we are all paying the price. So if you are genuinely willing to condemn racism, and I believe you are, you should be condemning that loudly and consistently.
Again, because there's no set definition of racism its hard to say what is overblown in discussing racism as a whole.
However, I think its very safe to say that the reaction to incidents like these are overblown and that if someone actual paid attention to how most of these types of stories end up, if they were being honest, they wouldn't react that way initially.
You hear about so many of these damn hoaxes and I am sorry but it does start to make one wonder how much reported racism is actually real. That's on the liars, not the conservatives reacting to said liars.
If someone chooses to deny racism because of some hoaxes, that is actually on them. Yes, the liars provided an excuse, but the deniers chose to use it
Wow. 4forgodking just proudly defecated all over himself with stupid generalizations claiming to know who are "conservatives" and who are "liberals" based on brief comments and then turned it into an opportunity to bash Trump and insult anyone who doesnt agree with him. Its commenters like you who kill threads with stupid politicization.
Oh please. He did nothing of the sort. He made a sober, well-reasoned post that pointed out the simple fact that when political leaders play footsie with white nationalism and racist rhetoric there is a corresponding increase in violence and intimidation against POC. That you somehow took this as an insult says a lot about you and nothing about his post.
He did indeed do all of that. You apparently agree with him so why dont you answer this: WTF does this piece of rope, that had nothing to do with anything, have to do with Trump? Waiting...
There are ignorant assholes on both sides of the aisle. Pretending there isn't or that one side is far worse than the other is shoving your head in your.........sandbox.
The sad thing is that there are probably quite a few people here that are upset it wasn’t a noose.
The sad thing are new account holders who post just to stir up trouble...
This reminds me of the outrage at MSU a couple years ago over the “noose” that later turned into just a packaged shoe lace.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/msu-noose-shoelace-student/
So yeah an Uni Knot does look an awful lot like a noose. I can understand the confusion. To me, context is important. Was it left on the desk of an employee of color, or was it stuffed back in the storage closet with the rest of the rope?
The original email stated that the rope "was found at the work station of two of our employees" which is sure makes it sound like those employees felt targeted. But today the article says the spool of rope was "returned to the storage area and discovered the following day". So which is it?