OT: NBA 75 Greatest Players (No U-M Alumni)
I wanted to a get a good lather going on the NBA 75th Anniversary Team released a couple days ago. Notably, no U-M alumni made the list (to be fair, Chris Webber is probably the only one who should be in the discussion).
There has been some pretty good back-and-forth on the sports medias about snubs, surprises, etc. Dwight Howard seems to be the consensus guy who got screwed over. Some of the recent Warriors and Spurs dynasty guys are included there, too (Steph Curry and Tim Duncan, respectively, are the only guys from those teams on the list). Anthony Davis and Damian Lillard come up a lot as the least deserving on the list.
Biggest snubs, surprises, most likely to be on 100th Anniversary Team?
October 24th, 2021 at 3:46 PM ^
I feel like Bill Walton would be more controversial if he weren't friends with everybody...
October 24th, 2021 at 6:51 PM ^
If Walton could have stayed healthy, he would have been a top 25 player, but he couldn’t. I don’t think he belongs in the top 75 based on productivity.
October 25th, 2021 at 4:38 AM ^
Exactly. He was much, much better than his career stats suggest. But his injury history is real, so his career as a whole was not that much better than his career stats suggest.
October 24th, 2021 at 3:59 PM ^
Lol @ Lillard. That is all.
October 24th, 2021 at 11:48 PM ^
*Lollard
October 24th, 2021 at 4:02 PM ^
No George Mikan? Come on man.
EDIT: OPPS!! nevermind, I just saw him in there, on the third look.
October 24th, 2021 at 4:06 PM ^
All of the members of the 50th Anniversary Team made this list, as well
October 24th, 2021 at 4:13 PM ^
From a hometown perspective , I'd like to see Bob Lanier on the list.
October 24th, 2021 at 4:14 PM ^
Ben Wallace should be on it. He's arguably the best defensive player in NBA history and the first ever to win 4 straight defensive player of the year awards. I'm biased but he's an all time great on a historically great defense.
October 25th, 2021 at 9:54 AM ^
I'd like to see both Lanier and Wallace on the list. I'd take Anthony and Lillard off. May not be popular , but if I could only take one ,I'd take Lanier.
October 24th, 2021 at 4:18 PM ^
Also, there was a last second decision to take Kyrie off the list. Freakin' hillarious.
October 24th, 2021 at 4:19 PM ^
How in the hell is Anthony Davis in there and Webber isn't.
October 24th, 2021 at 4:32 PM ^
Michael Jordan > everyone else
October 24th, 2021 at 11:35 PM ^
Kobe was better than Jordan. After Kobe was accused of rape the NBA wanted to move on from him and he stopped getting the “superstar calls.” He kept kicking ass anyway. Jordan was always allowed to take extra steps and play defense extra tough, all the while going to the line easier than most.
This is the big problem with the NBA. We can’t truly know who is the best because the refereeing in that league is a sham. When you consistently treat players with big contracts and shoe deals differently than other players, you artificially create statistics that make them look better than they really are.
Kobe is the only player who had that handicap yanked away from him. The players who played great despite receiving no preferential treatment—Ben Wallace, Ron Artest, etc.—are the ones I really like. The NBA has done a disservice to guys like Jordan and LeBron by gaming things in their favor. Because of that, we’ll never be able to accurately assess them.
October 25th, 2021 at 9:29 AM ^
I totally disagree. MJ was the template for Kobe. MJ > Kobe.
October 24th, 2021 at 4:37 PM ^
The fact that Irving was gonna be included negates the validity of this list. The guy’s entire game is super overrated and his resume is completely reliant on his 3 years with LeBron. Without him, he’s just a solid scoring PG for his career with injury issues and tons of baggage.
Jamal Crawford not being on it sorta surprised me. He didn’t get a championship, but played 20 years at a very high level and was one of (if not THE) the greatest 6th men ever.
Webber would have certainly been on the list of the refs didn’t ruin the Kings’ playoff push against the Lakers. That was a championship team.
October 24th, 2021 at 6:23 PM ^
I love Jamal Crawford so it pains me to say this, but he doesn't belong anywhere *near* this list.
Impressive longevity and consistency, but he was an almost purely offensive player (and pretty major defensive liability) who still never once ranked in the Top 15 in scoring, never made an All-Star team (let alone an All-NBA Team), never played in a Finals, and started *1* playoff game in his entire career. Even in terms of longevity, it feels like he played forever but he only ranks 18th.
I certainly have issues with Kyrie and I'm not sure if he belongs on the list, but the guy is a 7x All-Star, 3x All-NBA, Rookie of the Year, and was the 2nd best player on the winning team in one of the better NBA Finals ever. His PPG in his *worst* season was about the same as Crawford's *best*. And while Crawford had a pretty great handle, Kyrie might legitmately be the best ballhandler in NBA history*.
Again, love Crawford, and never thought I'd be writing a screed defending the prima donna Mr. Irving, but the idea that Crawford belongs on this list over Kyrie is *head explodes*.
*Obviously that's a matter of opinion, but google "best handles in NBA history". Sure, you'll mostly find a buncha dumb listicles, but Kyrie is consistently Top 2 no matter who's writing it.
October 24th, 2021 at 7:17 PM ^
Those are some insanely maize colored glasses. Jamal Crawford???
Also, Kevin McHale was the greatest 6th man ever and it's not close.
October 24th, 2021 at 7:58 PM ^
I love Kevin McHale .... but Jamal Crawford is the greatest "off the bench guy in NBA history" most points as a non-starter,hes the ONLY player to score 50 off the bench and hes done it 4 times ..his 14 assist off the bench is the most by a non-starter . Jamal is top 20 in 50-point scoring games (hes tied with Bird) hes the oldest NBA player to score 50 in a game ,,hes 8th in ALL Time 3-pointers .He set the record for most points in a game off the bench, only player to score 50+ in a game with four different teams ,played 21 years
Jamal Craword has had a 52 point game ,a 11 rebound game, 14 assist game ,a game where he hit 17 of 17 free throws , a game where he hit 21 of 24 from the floor ,a game with 6 steals . a game with 3 blocks ,a game with 8 --3-pointers made ... ALL OF THESE THINGS HAPPENED FROM THE BENCH
https://www.nba.com/stats/player/2037/career/
October 24th, 2021 at 8:21 PM ^
Also, Jamal Crawford is the highest scoring ex-UM player in NBA history. (a factoid the might win you a bar bet sometime, if people still do that sort of thing)
October 25th, 2021 at 7:24 AM ^
@Ralph, Not going too deep since I'm not sure this is exactly what you meant, but Kevin McHale was a much better player than Jamal Crawford. The All Star appearances, championships, All-NBA, All Defensive and All Rookie team appearances speak for themselves.
I'll give you Crawford, only because 18 years in that role beats McHale's 5. But even comparing only the bench years, its arguable.
(points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks)
Crawford's 14.6, 2.2, 3.4, 0.9, 0.2
McHale's 15.1, 6.9, 1.2, 0.4, 1.9 blocks (this is only his 1st 5 years, not his entire career)
Even apart from the fact I know McHale was contributing to NBA championships, those numbers probably have me lean towards McHale
October 24th, 2021 at 4:45 PM ^
These lists are fun, and really hard to compare players from different eras. I'd say some guys that maybe shouldn't have made the cut:
- Lillard
- melo
- AD
- Ray Allen
- Westbrook
-Walton
Mainly because IMO there were several contemporary players better at their positions. I'm very glad Dwight Howard was not on the list.
Some guys I'd consider replacing the guys listed above:
- David Thompson
- Artis Gilmore
- Gail Goodrich
- Chris Mullin
- Alex English
- Bob Lanier
- Bernard King
- Tracy McGrady
- Adrian Dantley
- Joe Dumars
- Chris Webber
- Dennis Johnson
October 24th, 2021 at 5:10 PM ^
I really think that Melo should NOT be on this list. He scored a lot, great, but no team that he led ever had a real chance at contending for a championship. If volume scorers on poor teams like Adrian Dantley, Alex English, and Bernard King aren't on the list, Melo shouldn't be either.
His hall-of-fame case is stronger because the Basketball HOF is inclusive of college and international play, where Melo has done better.
If you never made an All-NBA First Team, you shouldn't be on this list.
October 24th, 2021 at 7:38 PM ^
I safe. I think Bernard king was a better version of a scoring guy who never won a title.
Lilliard inclusion is confusing to me.
October 24th, 2021 at 8:01 PM ^
Chris Mullin lol???
October 24th, 2021 at 8:21 PM ^
Yeah, that's fair. Mullin had a hall of fame career if you include college and olympics, but NBA alone wasn't good enough.
Pretty damn strong 7 year run, but that's not enough to be an all-timer.
October 24th, 2021 at 7:11 PM ^
Kevin Garnett made it.
That almost counts, sort of.
Probably not.
October 24th, 2021 at 7:50 PM ^
From my lifetime, Camelo Anthony shouldn't be near the list.
October 24th, 2021 at 8:07 PM ^
Ginobli made the All-NBA third team twice. If you aren’t ever the best of your contemporaries you don’t belong on the best of all time list. Dwight Howard was first time 5 years in a row. He was so dominant on both ends of the court. Never came close to Shaq’s offensive prowess, but if he was surrounded by similar talent he may have been a top 25 player. He is easily in the top 75. Dame doesn’t belong over Howard in any way.
October 24th, 2021 at 9:35 PM ^
Agreed. Howard gets punished for hanging around too long after his skills faded, but the guy was the undisputed best big man in the game for a half decade. Very few players in history can claim the same for their position.
Granted he benefitted from peaking during an era with no other really dominant bigs (Yao?), but still: he was Superman for a few years.
October 24th, 2021 at 9:23 PM ^
At least we’ve got the GOAT for football
October 24th, 2021 at 10:28 PM ^
You always expect a contemporary bias with lists like these.
That being said, I went back and looked at Robert Parish's stats and was rather shocked at how strong his resume was.
October 24th, 2021 at 11:06 PM ^
You mention Dwight Howard as a notable snub but what has he done to be considered more than just an okay starter? The league actively promoted him as a star—meaning he got the favorable whistle—and he could still never perform better than average. He has a reputation for being soft and, judging by his play, it’s deserved.
edit: After looking at the list closer, I saw that Carmelo Anthony was on the list. What a joke. They might as well have just listed the guys who made the most money. Carmelo Anthony ruined every team he played on because he could never figure out that 1) basketball is a team sport and 2) in basketball you play offense AND defense.
October 24th, 2021 at 11:47 PM ^
Lillard and AD don’t belong. I don’t even think Ray Allen or Gary Payton are among the best 75 of all time. Certainly Carmelo isn’t.
October 25th, 2021 at 12:17 AM ^
Melo is the league's 9th leading scorer all-time. Rightly or wrongly, that will get him on a list like this.
October 25th, 2021 at 5:30 AM ^
Where's Duncan Robinson? I'm not sure if anyone know this but he is the first guy EVER to go Division 3 to Division 1. And now is the dirtiest dawg in the NBA! This is a travesty I say!
RIP Keith Jackson
October 25th, 2021 at 12:47 PM ^
End Duncan's conservatorship!
October 25th, 2021 at 10:25 AM ^
Russell Westbrook does not belong. Dude is a master of accumulating stats, but you would never want to build a franchise around him. He's like a bag of Doritos....all empty calories.
October 25th, 2021 at 11:01 AM ^
I disagree with Russ…love him or hate him, he’s done something unprecedented in NBA history! There was a time no one thought anyone could average a triple-double for a season after the Big O did it. He’s done it on 4 separate occasions. He’s an MVP and made All-NBA 9x. Those credentials are very respectable alone, let alone the numbers he puts up.
October 25th, 2021 at 11:37 AM ^
I respect the disagreement. And I think reasonable minds can differ.
There was a time when I thought Westbrook was a top player (and I thought he deserved his MVP), but I just haven't seen him do anything except put up nice looking stats.
I know he is a bit older now, but as a 76ers fan, I was thoroughly unimpressed with him when we faced the Wizards last year. Beal scared me to death, but Westbrook was more of a pest than a real threat.
October 25th, 2021 at 12:53 PM ^
Russ is one of the toughest to gauge for me. Part of me lumps him in with players like Carmelo, who actively made their teams worse and have no business at all being on a list like this. He's definitely been a stats-chaser at points in his career.
...But those stats. People accused Wilt of the same thing, but goddam there comes a point where you have to respect the individual accomplishment regardless. Plus, Russ was a top-two player on some really excellent teams that would have won 'ships had it not been for dynastic roadblocks.
I would actually put Russ above Harden on lists like this.
October 25th, 2021 at 10:41 AM ^
I wonder if Michigan would have anyone on a Top-75 NFL list? Yuk yuk, yuk....
October 26th, 2021 at 10:11 AM ^
Alas, my all time favorite player Mitch Richmond gets snubbed again. Lillard and Melo, give me a break.