OT - Naval Academy fires Ken Niumatalolo
So sad that the win at all costs agenda has now entered the service academies. Read John Feinstein's article in the Washington Post for the sordid details.
Ken Niumatalolo deserved better than what he got from Navy - The Washington Post
December 12th, 2022 at 2:56 PM ^
This is a guy we should consider as a Biff Poggi replacement.
December 12th, 2022 at 3:05 PM ^
I kinda doubt that he'd be real interested, but if so yes please. Definitely the kind of person you want around your program. Assuming he still has the desire he'll get another head job and soon.
December 12th, 2022 at 2:56 PM ^
He always seemed like a really good dude and a solid coach. I am not sure we can chalk this up to "win at all costs" mentality though. 15 years as a head coach is a long time. There could be a myriad of reasons why they let him go.
I do think for the sake of that running back Hall they could have waited a week or so. That kid was inconsolable on the sideline after the winning field goal and I felt really bad for him. Feeling like you are directly responsible for your coach losing his job probably isn't a great feeling.
December 12th, 2022 at 5:22 PM ^
This could be similar to a Fisher DeBerry situation where the program is just kind of running out of steam and needs some new energy and new ideas. The issue is I'm not sure who you find to freshen things up. I don't think Navy has the kind of coaching tree Air Force developed about fifteen years ago when they needed to move on from DeBerry where you had the Houston Texans Offensive Coordinator ready to go.
December 13th, 2022 at 10:38 PM ^
Ahhhh... What do you know... 😏
December 12th, 2022 at 2:57 PM ^
I was thinking about the service academies lately, and wondered how in the world would NIL work for them. I mean, paying for the kids not just to play football, but to become officer's in the armed forces. Seems like a very tricky deal, I mean every kid attending is trying to become and officer. Appointments are made or helped along by influential people like senators and congressional people.
EDIT: sorry I didnt want to start a different thread on something like this, just me thinking
December 12th, 2022 at 3:09 PM ^
Unless something changed, cadets are already given a monthly stipend for attending the service academy, athlete or not. Additionally, Academies aren't foolish. They know what they have to sell and it isn't going to be the rigors and glory of athletic achievement. The kids that go the service academy route (or their families) are largely not going to be swayed by NIL.
I could be totally wrong but having been recruited by West Point, they were pretty honest about their athletic programs and what you'd walk away with from the school and the value of the degree and alumni network. They were also pretty blunt saying attending West Point probably wasn't going to include a lot of NCAA championships.
December 12th, 2022 at 4:33 PM ^
Service academy graduates also have guaranteed jobs after graduation.
December 12th, 2022 at 5:54 PM ^
Cadet basic pay is $1185 a month. Especially as a first year, a lot of expenses come out of it. I know they're not hurting considering the tuition free education they get but perhaps cadet pay and NIL isn't an apples to apples comparison.
December 12th, 2022 at 3:15 PM ^
Read an article somewhere—the Athletic?—that the academies consider their students to be government employees, so no NIL. Also, no redshirting, so let opportunity to develop players. (Though apparently West Point and the Air Force Academy have found a small loophole).
Plus Navy's in a conference so its teams have a chance over time to get used to Navy's offense, rather than trying to prepare in a single week. (E.g., UM vs. Army a few seasons ago.)
December 12th, 2022 at 3:52 PM ^
West Point, Navy, and AFA all have prep schools which are kind of like a redshirt year athletically
December 12th, 2022 at 3:57 PM ^
Oh, yeah. I forgot about that.
December 12th, 2022 at 5:18 PM ^
Roughly. Prep school athletes usually come in with some academic work to do and so have to face admissions at the Academy again. There are also players who come directly from high school as well. The team is usually about half and half prep school and direct high school, so usually only half the team gets this "Red shirt".
December 12th, 2022 at 5:57 PM ^
It's also not a red shirt in that -- at least at the AFA, prep school enrollees are not practicing with the varsity team.
You're not doing 4 in 5. Once one gets an appointment from the prep school to the academy and moves into varsity, it's still 4 years of football in 4 years of school.
December 13th, 2022 at 2:20 PM ^
Agreed, but man if I had a choice between practicing and getting playing time with guys my own age and size vs. riding the bench and being a practice team dummy I know the "redshirt" I'd rather take.
December 13th, 2022 at 10:42 PM ^
All true statements. I was an AFA Prep graduate and although it felt a bit like a wasted year athletically, it was a great experience and was an easier transition into the military
December 12th, 2022 at 5:53 PM ^
wrong post.
December 12th, 2022 at 2:59 PM ^
I'm hopeful for the Timmy Chang era at Hawaii, but if it doesn't work out there or he bolts after a few seasons, Niumatalolo would be a good hire for the Rainbow Warriors!
December 12th, 2022 at 3:15 PM ^
From Annapolis to Pearl would be a definite upgrade in duty station.
December 12th, 2022 at 3:18 PM ^
Problem is that his system (triple option) is pretty much the complete opposite of the air raid/run and shoot that Hawaii has run since the late 90s. It would pretty much guarantee a few years of rough transition, and for what? Assuming that Hawaii would hire someone knowing that they'd be downright abysmal for the first few years, would they be meaningfully better than under a good air raid coach?
I think the costs of a major transition are too often overlooked, and there are plenty of examples of it going down in flames (think RR here, Callahan at Nebraska, etc.) that schools should be very wary of it and only make that kind of hire if they truly think the transition would be worth it...
December 12th, 2022 at 11:52 PM ^
Funny you mention this. Because way back in the day Hawaii *did* run an early version of the flexbone. Paul Johnson was Bob Wagner’s OC in Honolulu from the late 80s thru the mid 90s.
Back then though the flex was more of a run n shoot-wishbone mashup.
December 12th, 2022 at 3:04 PM ^
Reasons why he deserved better than he got-
1. Their schedule is easier next year
2. Lots of players are returning
I dont know man just leave it at "I really like this guy" and be done with it.
December 12th, 2022 at 3:20 PM ^
Navy is sort of in a “who else are you going to hire” situation like UofM after 2000. The guy was perfect for USNA and deserved better from the school.
December 12th, 2022 at 4:59 PM ^
I think you "really like the guy" and that is ok.
Deserved better? Im not so sure, he went 4-8 and lost to thei rival who also was not a good team.
I think what we are forgetting here is he makes over $2million a year. This isnt some voluntary work or some "ill help you guys out" situation. This is big boy football with big boy pay. He deserved better as much as a 7-5 Rich Rod deserved better.
There are a slew of coaches that can do better than 4-8. He doesnt currently serve in the Navy if that helps better clarify anyone's judgement.
December 12th, 2022 at 5:32 PM ^
Better than 4-8 at the Naval Academy is an open question, Niumatalolo has done that there before and he's not at Fisher Deberry retirement age where you would expect him to be losing steam.
I don't think Navy made the right decision here, even if, yes, the guys wasn't in the Navy and was making money in the job.
December 12th, 2022 at 3:08 PM ^
I admired Coach Niumatalolo for his dedication to Navy football. I wish he could've succeeded enough to remain there the rest of his career. He departs as the longest lasting coach in Navy football history. It's a tough place to coach due to the pool of players the Navy has access to. Hope they find someone that's willing to stay and help Navy succeed.
December 12th, 2022 at 3:14 PM ^
If you take the long view though, Navy has had three down years in a row, and their offense is unrecognizably bad compared to the Paul Johnson/early Ken eras.
For close Navy watchers, this was neither a surprise nor a reaction to losing Saturday.
December 12th, 2022 at 3:17 PM ^
Maybe partly a reaction to the loss Saturday. Isn't he 2-5 or 2-6 recently against Army and Air Force?
December 12th, 2022 at 3:54 PM ^
that's after an 8-0 start against army.
Wapo was right, I think he deserved better.
December 12th, 2022 at 3:16 PM ^
He had a good overall tenure there, but in his last three seasons went 3-7, 4-8 and 4-8. Not many coaches will survive that.
December 12th, 2022 at 3:34 PM ^
JM, essentially, they start their season “0-1”, playing ND every season.
December 12th, 2022 at 3:57 PM ^
I don’t think losing to ND was his problem. Going 3-6, 4-7 and 4-7 against everyone else was.
He was no longer performing at his own previous level. Getting fired stinks for anyone, but I can understand why they did it.
December 12th, 2022 at 3:46 PM ^
In 2015 Navy transitioned from a football independent to a member of the American Athletic Conference. Major step up in competition. No more games against Colgate and Bucknell.
“We are very excited about joining the American Athletic Conference and playing in the West Division,” said Navy director of athletics Chet Gladchuk. “The programs at Houston, Memphis, SMU, Tulane and Tulsa are run in a very similar manner as ours and we feel that we can be competitive in that division and compete for a championship. We not only look forward to playing the teams in the West, but the schools in the East as well. Facing UCF, Cincinnati, UConn, East Carolina, USF and Temple will provide great challenges to us, and it is one of the reasons we joined the conference. Independence had become outdated for the Naval Academy. Scheduling and TV contracts were being monopolized by the conferences and we felt that we had to join a conference in order to be able to maintain the stature we've enjoyed for so many years. (emphasis added)”
December 12th, 2022 at 3:20 PM ^
Felt like I was watching a different sport on Saturday. Navy had the ball at their 40 yard line with a minute, fresh set of downs, and 2 timeout left to try to get into FG territory to win. They just ran, ran, and ran some more to get it to OT instead. Infuriating to watch.
December 12th, 2022 at 3:46 PM ^
It was a bit bizarre. I remember thinking the same thing. I am not saying abandon the whole wishbone option thing all together but right there 30 yards puts you in a position to win the game.
December 12th, 2022 at 6:51 PM ^
I was yelling at the tv, it made absolutely no sense to just sit on the ball and not even attempt to get into FG range. Probably the last straw if they had any inkling to keeping him another year.
December 12th, 2022 at 3:25 PM ^
And just a few short years ago he was turning down suiters, staying loyal to Navy.....
He always came across as a total class act. I hope better things are down the road for him.
December 12th, 2022 at 3:41 PM ^
Sometimes I wonder if the service academies would be better off just running a "regular" offense, by todays standards. They aren't loaded with talent but coaches find ways to innovate now to overcome talent disparities. It seems they play the wishbone because that is what they are "supposed" to do. To throw one pass for an entire football game, I don't know.
December 12th, 2022 at 5:00 PM ^
They've tried running standard offenses or even Air Raids and nothing seems to work as well as a Triple Option based program. For a variety of reasons the Triple Option just seems to be the right thing for the Academies. The Triple Option works well as a base because it keeps the defense off of the field and allows the kinds of athlete's the Academies can recruit to thrive. It's more of a game/program planning thing than anything else.
December 13th, 2022 at 11:45 AM ^
It works well as a base if you’re good at it. Navy did not look good at it this year.
And even if it’s your base, I don’t see why you can’t innovate at all. Or throw at all. The Army Navy game had 0 complete passes until halfway through the 4th quarter. That’s insane and never going to be a winning formula.
December 13th, 2022 at 2:27 PM ^
Not sure what your point is supposed to be here. If you're saying Navy looked bad on offense throughout the year, then yes, agreed. If you're saying a triple option base is something the academies can move beyond I am not sure I agree.
As far as not throwing the ball throughout the Army-Navy game... Dunno, wasn't watching the game, but I do know that I have watched Air Force win games and dominate them by running the ball 70+ times. These kinds of things can be done without having to throw the ball to be "modern" or something.
December 12th, 2022 at 3:58 PM ^
saw this last night. winningest coach of all time there. kinda surprised.
December 13th, 2022 at 11:52 AM ^
Winningest coach of all time but also 10 games under .500 over the last 5 years. Had an awesome 11-2 2019, but that’s the only season since 2017 with more than 4 wins.
And Army is on a 5-2 run on them right now.
Tough stretch and the trajectory doesn’t look good.
December 12th, 2022 at 4:56 PM ^
This was an awful decision by the Naval Academy and one I do not understand. I get the argument is that the program may feel like its running out of steam, but I'm not sure what bringing in a new head coach is going to end up doing for you that you couldn't get from some new offensive ideas. I may have made some jokes about wanting BYU or Hawaii to hire Nimuatalolo away as an Air Force fan, but I respected the man and respected the Navy program and thought he ran it well. This is a shame.
December 12th, 2022 at 8:35 PM ^
As a Naval Academy grad I do have mixed feelings. It has started to look and feel like he had lost the recipe that made them a winning team. In recent years his offense really became QB dependent meaning if he had a Malcom Perry Navy was good but if not then they are what we saw on Saturday. Stuck in neutral.
Conversely, I am now really nervous that the next guy will be worse and think maybe they should have give coach Ken some time to get his mojo back.
December 12th, 2022 at 5:32 PM ^
Always seemed like a good guy and a good fit. Son of family friend played for him and felt he was a great guy.
It seemed like he just ran out of steam the last few years though. It happens sometimes (cough, Lloyd)
December 12th, 2022 at 6:24 PM ^
I was shocked they fired him. This may well end up being a "be careful what you wish for" situation. Before Paul Johnson Navy was awful for 2 decades. They went to 11 bowl games and won 6 under coach N. Had a winning record against Army.
They slid a bit, sure, but between COVID impacting all Academies (no 5th/6th years), joining a conference (record was going to slip) and Army finally not having a schlub for a coach for the first time since the 90's (and sharing the same recruiting pool) it was bound to happen and for the Army/Navy record to even out a bit.
Sounds like they fired him at his locker right after the loss. Dick move. He deserved better.
As an Army guy hope they pay.
Go Army Beat Navy
December 12th, 2022 at 6:59 PM ^
Westpoint family here as well. Navy made a mistake here. They will struggle to find as good of a man as Coach N. I don't think most folks k own the caliber of kid they are recruiting. Wespoint is often the top rated engineering school in the country. They just made it easier for the Golden Knights. Go Army!
December 12th, 2022 at 7:06 PM ^
Wow. If any school in the country should count (heavily) stuff other than record, it’s the service academies. I’m a “Go Army” guy, but always thought he was both a class act and great coach. Good luck, Coach — I expect you’ll land on your feet.