OT: Los Angeles just banned trick-or-treating for 2020
Seriously.
Is the world going to end because some kids (many of who would be wearing masks anyway!) participate in Halloween?
This is simply sad. "Joy and fun", especially for our children, CAN be a part of life even in the era of CoronaVirus.
http://publichealth.lacounty.gov/media/Coronavirus/docs/community/Guida…
September 9th, 2020 at 12:37 PM ^
Counterpoint: trick or treating in the middle of a pandemic is probably not the best idea
September 9th, 2020 at 12:42 PM ^
Extending your logic --- do you think that "doing anything that requires human interaction" in the middle of a pandemic is probably not the best idea?
When does this end? It's a serious question. Are Thanksgiving dinners going to be banned next?
September 9th, 2020 at 12:45 PM ^
I mean...they probably should be seriously reduced this year, yes. We won't be doing the typical extended family get together. We have at risk family members and it seems foolish to force the issue for one meal.
September 9th, 2020 at 1:13 PM ^
My mother in law’s cooking should kill any pathogens. Heyooo!
September 9th, 2020 at 12:52 PM ^
Limited social interactions are fine. Massive gatherings are not fine.
Modified small Halloween party with 4 families that share employment/schools/etc risk factors? Seems reasonable
Block party Halloween with waves of children? Probably a bad idea
I think a 10-15 family member gathering for thanksgiving dinner wouldn’t apply. If you’re hosting 100 people, reconsider your plans
September 9th, 2020 at 1:12 PM ^
Try telling that to my wife's family. She is 1 of 11 and all of them have started families of their own. Thanksgiving is now 75 people, just with immediate family members. I am just not sure you can put a number on these things. Everyone's situations are different. People need to be allowed to use their brains instead of being told what to do by the gov't.
September 9th, 2020 at 1:20 PM ^
Interesting. How do you feel about anarchy? Why get married at all? It's a legal agreement that tells you that you are a couple. Is it even needed? Social security card, are you saying fuck that, no one needs to know what I'm tied to? Driver's license? Screw that. Waste of money. You like that car? Just freaking take it. Where does it end?? Damn government should just let us people use our brains and not be governed.
September 9th, 2020 at 1:58 PM ^
Wow - this is a pretty big leap to go from allowing people to use their brain to make some basic decisions in regards to their lives and getting rid of SS cards, marriage, driver's licenses and stealing cars.
Sorry I pissed in your Wheaties HatSparty.
September 9th, 2020 at 2:41 PM ^
His point is that people are stupid and shitty and that government needs to sometimes put laws and restrictions in place to stop people from being shitty in ways that have consequences for other people. In this case, you, your wife, and your wife's family are being stupid and shitty
September 9th, 2020 at 2:53 PM ^
Or... The majority of them live in a rural area of western PA that has essentially zero cases of covid. They are together with each other often and take precautions by social distancing / masks with everything else they do.
Just because there are 75 people it doesn't mean it's irresponsible. There is a doctor, 2 nurses, 4 engineers, 2 tradesman and a teacher. All taking the appropriate precautions but thank you for your internet assessment of our shitty family.
September 9th, 2020 at 3:04 PM ^
Just because there are 75 people it doesn't mean it's irresponsible.
Yes, it does. That would be the very definition of irresponsible, in fact. Doubly so with three of them being health care workers.
When does the "using your brains" part begin? I'm so ready.
September 9th, 2020 at 3:17 PM ^
Sorry, but if your whole family thinks that a gathering of 75 people isn't irresponsible then highly doubt they're taking covid precautions seriously in their everyday lives. I couldn't care less what their careers are
September 9th, 2020 at 3:23 PM ^
There is a doctor, 2 nurses, 4 engineers, 2 tradesman and a teacher.
Well, that's good. I'm sure the virus decides whether or not to infect a person based upon his / her profession, educational background, and earning potential.
September 9th, 2020 at 3:33 PM ^
Honestly I've had similar conversations with anti-maskers. My usual follow-up question is "OK, you don't believe in mandated mask-wearing. How do you feel about mandating stopping at red lights in intersections? But, but... FREEDOM."
September 9th, 2020 at 10:44 PM ^
What people do on the roads is vastly different than what they do in their homes. Apple meet orange. There are very few laws governing what you can do in your home. Saying something you do in your home is a "bad idea" is fine. Making it illegal is over reach.
September 9th, 2020 at 1:20 PM ^
People need to be allowed to use their brains instead of being told what to do by the gov't.
Pretty sure the past three decades proves this mostly false. This country has a serious disease.
September 9th, 2020 at 2:42 PM ^
I agree with you Monocle Smile, this country does have a serious disease and it's been closer to 6 decades. It's that more and more people think it's the governments job to fix everything vs taking control and start by fixing the neighborhoods they live in. Investing in their neighbors and towns vs being only concerned about themselves.
We are talking about the same social issues today as were being talked about back in the 60's and 70's. Every four years theses issues rise to a breaking point and then simmer down until the next election. If there is any better argument that the government is not going to fix this 'disease', it's that they haven't done anything about it over the last 60 years.
Hell, there is a candidate running for president that has been saying he would fix this stuff for the last 50 years, and yet people believe he will all of a sudden be able to fix it in the next 4? And no, I do not think Trump will be able to fix these issues either.
My take on it is that until people fix the following, nothing will change:
- the breakdown of the family -- too many single parent homes, divorce, drugs, etc
- education -- disadvantaged neighborhoods need to have access to 'better' schools
Kids are being raised in toxic environments with no vision into what life should look like. All they know is what they see and experience which then leads them them growing up and starting the next cycle.
So long story short... I agree there is a population of people that struggles to make good decisions for themselves. Where I disagree is that the answer lies with our government.
September 9th, 2020 at 3:12 PM ^
Your absolute ignorance is showing.
September 9th, 2020 at 3:27 PM ^
"the breakdown of the family -- too many single parent homes, divorce, drugs, etc"
Do you think it was better for kids when women couldn't divorce abusive husbands? That's a really strange take.
September 9th, 2020 at 3:43 PM ^
And under no circumstance should we seek to discover the root causes of these "social problems" that have plagued us for decades. It's just such a lousy argument. There are only two causes here; dude is completely ignorant to the real root issues and instead focuses on the symptoms because either he's been mislead or just ignorant. Or, he's willfully blind to it, possibly even just acting in bad faith (that would carry some darker connotations that I will leave blank).
September 9th, 2020 at 5:14 PM ^
Absolutely not. Where in my comment did I say a women needs to stay married to an abusive husband?
I don't know the numbers... Are ALL divorces a result of women being married to an abusive husband? If so, then I would agree that divorce is not the issue... the abusive husband is.
September 9th, 2020 at 5:35 PM ^
You're talking about the BREAKDOWN of families and too many single parents. In living memory women were strictly limited in what constituted grounds for divorce, and in generally fell to abandonment and infidelity. Abuse was not a reason generally granted to women filing for divorce.
And I'd really like to know who you think populates this group: "I agree there is a population of people that struggles to make good decisions for themselves."
September 10th, 2020 at 7:59 AM ^
I guess the same group that is referenced above as to not being able to use their brains because this country has a serious disease for the last 3 decades. What group is being referenced in that statement? Or don't you care because it would fit your narrative?
September 9th, 2020 at 4:24 PM ^
"with no vision into what life should look like"
I'm really curious about your vision of what life should look like. I'm willing to bet many people wouldn't want that life.
September 9th, 2020 at 1:51 PM ^
That sounds like my dream, with 75 people at Thanksgiving, no one would notice if I skipped to go Steelhead fishing.
September 9th, 2020 at 2:32 PM ^
It’s hard to trust people’s brains when they ignore and deny what doctors and science tell them about a disease those brains know nothing about.
September 9th, 2020 at 2:53 PM ^
I need you to explain the logistics of that to me. I have a hard time making 2 turkeys and just a few of the sides for 25 people when I host. How do you manage 75? Do you just rent a restaurant?
September 9th, 2020 at 3:03 PM ^
My wife's parent's house has a kitchen with 2 ovens and makes 2 huge turkey's, not sure of the weight. How big can you get them? They have a large dining room and living room so we put fold out tables there. We have enough seating for all the kids to eat first. The adults mostly just fill in or stand at the bars in the kitchen.
It is surprisingly efficient. Her mom cooks everything else in roasters and large crock pots. It is a very unique and fantastic time. It really keeps everyone grounded in reality.
September 9th, 2020 at 3:29 PM ^
Grounded in what reality?
And sorry, but that sounds like a horrible way to enjoy a meal. But at least with just two birds you're not going to be overeating, so that's good.
September 9th, 2020 at 5:27 PM ^
Yes - grounded in reality because there are so many differing points of view. Discussions can be had about any topic without resorting to the hate and anger that people with differing opinions show on this board.
I am sorry it sounds horrible to you. The kids have an incredible time and it is it is a blast. Sitting at a table with 2 or 3 other people on Thanksgiving sounds terrible to me but that is what makes us all different I guess right?
September 9th, 2020 at 5:38 PM ^
Still not sure what you mean by grounded in reality.
September 9th, 2020 at 12:54 PM ^
There's a big difference between forbidding all human interaction and forbidding an activity that essentially maximizes the number of interactions that can be squeezed into one sugar-fueled evening.
If you can't see that, look to your left. What do you see? Does it look like a rectum? How about to your right? Still rectum? OK, now listen carefully-- try pulling your head out of your ass. It might hurt.
September 9th, 2020 at 4:17 PM ^
+1 for the sentiment - and I will be stealing your second paragraph for future use. Brilliant.
September 9th, 2020 at 12:55 PM ^
I don't know what world you live in exactly, but it's definitely got the slipperiest slopes.
September 9th, 2020 at 12:57 PM ^
Good strawman. "Doing anything that requires human interaction" and "having people pack the streets in the country's second largest city to travel from house to house in possibly one of the easiest ways to spread COVID widely to other people" are miles apart.
September 9th, 2020 at 1:25 PM ^
Fine, call it a strawman. But I'd say that your own post includes some strawmen:
(1) "people pack the streets" --- this is not necessarily true. Kids can trick-or-treat while staying a distance away from each other. I've never seen any neighborhood where trick-or-treating is occurring where people are packed in shoulder-to-shoulder.
(2) "second largest city" --- LA's neighborhoods are no more densely populated than other American cities. Yes, LA is 2nd in the nation in population, but that's primarily a function of how geographically large it is.
(3) "one of the easiest ways to spread COVID widely to other people" --- I don't agree with that at all. Think about a kid going up to a house. (A) The interaction is usually only 2 minutes long. (B) There's at least a 50% chance the kid's costume already consists of a mask. (C) The candy-giver may be wearing a mask themselves. Scientific studies have shown that virus spread is considerably more likely with a longer interaction. 2 minutes is not very long at all - most studies show a considerably longer interaction is required for significant spread.
September 9th, 2020 at 2:18 PM ^
The AMA, AAP, CDC, WHO, NEJM, not to mention every pediatrician in our practice and that I know has said that this not a danger to children and that there is no reason to stop normal activities, yet here we are, ignoring them while we cower in fear.
We have simply taken leave of our senses and grabbed onto this crazy narrative.
Trick or Treat is not going to kill your kids. However, suicide and depression will if we don't start acting like sane adults.
September 9th, 2020 at 2:44 PM ^
Half a million child cases and going up...
The numbers on this page correspond to the numbers associated with adults. Children have largely been isolated from C-19 until school started. Since then, over the last few weeks, these cases have climbed quickly. I don't see how a child is any less 'at risk' than an adult - they have the same body design and systems that adults have, only smaller. They will transmit the disease as quickly as anyone else, may well suffer long term affects, and may well infect more immediately vulnerable populations (parents/grandparents).
I'm not trying to argue against trick-or-treating, but I'm also not going to throw out a threat because kids haven't died as much as adults.
September 9th, 2020 at 3:10 PM ^
Uh, bud who do you think gives the kids the candy? Old people that have kids screaming trick or treat in their faces. No, it's not a risk to kids but a risk to anyone potentially giving them candy.
I don't think it's necessary to ban it, per se. But I can't imagine many people would have been handing out candy in our neighborhood (I live in LA) so I'm kind of glad they just made it official so people don't have to wonder and waste money on candy they won't give out or walk around the neighborhood only to find that no one is handing out candy anyway.
September 9th, 2020 at 4:45 PM ^
Here’s a question, Infectious: If you believe the pandemic is a manufactured fear, why was it manufactured?
And based on your answer to that question, we’ll at least know why you spout off all the bullshit you do on here.
September 9th, 2020 at 2:34 PM ^
This post shows your 'white privilege' upbringing (to use an over-used term). And to be clear, I'm also one of the guys that benefits from 'white privilege'.
1) Every year, in well-funded neighborhoods and at 'trunk-or-treat' events, I see kids careening all over the place, going in both directions, and piling up at doors while waiting their turn. Where do you think that trick-or-treating can become a well-organized, distanced, and controlled event?
2) So you apparently think that only kids in nice neighborhoods trick-or-treat. I guess high-rise towers, apartment complexes, and retail areas don't get any trick-or-treat traffic, right?
3) Opening up everyone to even a 2-minute interaction (probably less) certainly increases exposure and adds to overall risk. Given the polarized posture America has right now, is there any reason that you'd expect everyone to wear a mask and show concern for their fellow citizen? A lot of people go outside of their home area to trick-or-treat, as well, and so could transmit C-19 from one neighborhood to another.
This country - one of the richest in the world, with the highest standard of living - is currently experiencing one of the worst outbreaks in the world of a disease that everyone else has largely under control. Our passport is currently useless because of the shitty response we've had. So there are two paths to choose from here: 1) say fuck it, and just live with it; or 2) do something about it.
So what we're getting, instead of one of the two viable choices, is a half measure of nothing. You know, the same response we've had since the beginning...
September 9th, 2020 at 3:15 PM ^
Have lost so much respect for you, man.
September 10th, 2020 at 8:58 PM ^
I live in Los Angeles. Last year, at one point, we had ~50 kids waiting in line at our house to get candy. This is a good idea in the middle of a pandemic?
September 9th, 2020 at 1:04 PM ^
Unsolicited suggestion for you, NittanyFan: The best OPEN HER UP(!) arguments begin and end with economics. They don't even get close to minimizing the impact of the still-somewhat-mysterious virus.
September 9th, 2020 at 1:52 PM ^
Do you live in LA? Do you know anything about LA? Or... are you just bitching about an area you know little about bc they aren't doing what you think they should?
September 9th, 2020 at 9:17 PM ^
I also agree that his description of LA was pretty poor. It's a very densely populated city in many, many parts.
September 9th, 2020 at 2:22 PM ^
People are simply unable to think rationally. There is a reason whypwhy use fear to manipulate the herd. People are stupid and they are so easily fooled.
September 9th, 2020 at 2:35 PM ^
Ah the classic conservative "slippery slope" argument
September 9th, 2020 at 2:49 PM ^
Trick or treating is a potentially risky thing because of the number of strangers interacting with one another. It's usually old people giving out candy to kids. Like hundreds of random kids coming up and yelling trick or treat in old peoples faces and touching a bowl that everyone involved touches.
Handing out candy just doesn't seem like a thing many people would want to do. Hm, let's see, do I want to risk my life to give a bunch of kids some tooth rotting candy for a night?
I live in Los Angeles and it's interesting because I was just talking to some friends about what Halloween is even going to look like this year (I have kids age 3 and 4 so the most fun trick or treating ages) and I assumed virtually no houses would be handing out candy anyway.
I don't think it's necessary to ban it, per se, if they wanted to let people decide for themselves whether to participate. But I'm kind of glad they just made it official so people don't have to wonder and waste money on candy they won't give out or walk around the neighborhood only to find that no one is handing out candy anyway.
Huge difference between that and Thanksgiving dinner because Tgiving is with family that you know. You know where they've been, etc. And there isn't interfamily exchange. Very different.
September 9th, 2020 at 2:54 PM ^
If you want to have a big family get together, make sure to invite that uncle/cousin who goes on insane internet rants about how he will never wear a mask because of the "deep state." Make sure he goes to a large rally of like minded people a few weeks earlier.