OT: Interesting article about Dabo Swinney

Submitted by FrankMurphy on
Swinney always struck me as a bit of a goofball, but his personal story is pretty compelling. Great read.

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ghostofhoke

January 7th, 2016 at 1:01 PM ^

People can definitely be rubbed the wrong way by some of the stuff you see from him on TV but he is by all accounts an incredible person. The owner of my previous gym played for him when he was the DBs coach at Clemson and a good friend of mine's brother in law is on staff at Clemson currently. They could not speak more highly of a human being than the way they do of Dabo. Definitely understand that he strikes people as weird or can be off-putting but the guy is the genuine article. It's still a personality thing that is real though and his outspokenness will likely keep him off the list of potential successors to Saban which is a shame.



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DonAZ

January 7th, 2016 at 1:06 PM ^

I don't know Sweeney at all ... all I know of him is what I see on TV.

I'm not sure why people say he gets on their nerves, or he's douchey.  Sincere question -- what about him triggers that?

He's enthusiastic, and that can come across as "too much" to some.

He wears his faith on his sleeve.  Maybe there's the source?

He seems to be viewed as a generous and considerate person ... in that sense he's a lot like Mark Richt of (formerly) Georgia.

Sweeney strikes me as goofy, but in a somewhat likeable way.  But I don't have to be around him much.

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robpollard

January 7th, 2016 at 2:14 PM ^

1) He has increasingly played the "DISRESPEKT" card. Not as much as MSU/D'Antoni, who has seemingly built a whole philosophy around it. But I get bothered when the coach of a team that has been ranked #1 in the country half the year says, to quote him before the Okalahoma game, "nobody believes in this team except these guys in this room"  (and there's more where that came from).

2) His religious advocation at a public school. Not his faith (don't care, one way or the other), but the fact that Clemson, a public university: 1) has an annual "Church Day" where every member of the team in strongly encouraged to go, 2) has had players baptized on the field after practice (I know the player asked to do so, but it's not the time or place), 3) has a Christian chaplain in the office who has special access to the players, 4) has taken the whole team to Fellowship of Christian Athletes event to watch a few teammates testify.  Etc.

Overall, I think he's a fun interview (reminds of Spurrier, in terms of looseness, which is a good thing) and obviously an excellent coach. I'm also sure he treats all his players, , Christian or not, with respect But I won't be rooting for him or Saban on Monday (not that they care, of course).

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drjaws

January 7th, 2016 at 2:55 PM ^

Disagree 10,000,000,000,000%

It's college. If someone wants to do the Jesus thing, and ha e his family (i.e. coaches and teammates) there with him, then great. Good for them.

Don't get why people feel the need to eliminate religion from everything.



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drjaws

January 7th, 2016 at 3:13 PM ^

Yes. That's why it isn't forced on them or required. As a public university supported by people of all faiths, those that attend the college should be free to express their faith how they want.

You know, personal religious freedom and all that mumbo jumbo



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The Mad Hatter

January 7th, 2016 at 3:37 PM ^

Atheism is not a belief, it is a lack of belief.

Second, I don't care what anyone does on their own time and with their own money.  But we're talking about a public employee, acting in the capacity of his position to influence other people.  To me that pretty clearly violates the Establishment Clause.

You must not have spent much time around certain religious people.  Those "voluntary" prayer circles aren't so voluntary.  The kid that doesn't want to participate is often ostracized and bullied by his faith having classmates.

There's a time and place for religious displays and activities.  That place is at home or church and the time is whenever you're not being paid using tax dollars.

 

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drjaws

January 7th, 2016 at 4:05 PM ^

#1

People like to (wrongly) convince themselves that atheism is a "lack of belief." In actuality, it is a belief that there is no God or higher power. To say otherwise is either a blatant lie or a misuse of the word "belief."

#2

It goes both ways. Forcing people to NOT act on their religion because of their position in a public institution is the same thing as forcing them to act on your religion because of your position in a public institution. In both cases, people are being forced to act against their beliefs. Why you feel that one "counts" where the other "doesn't" simply showcases your bias towards religion.

People get ostracized and bullied far more often for numerous other reasons (weight, looks, hair color, freckles, acne etc.) than for praying/refusing to pray/religious actives. That point is absolutely ridiculous.



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drjaws

January 7th, 2016 at 4:44 PM ^

Yes, I do. Apparently FAR more so than you do. First of all .....

The Establishment Clause "is a limitation placed upon the United States Congress preventing it from passing legislation respecting an establishment of religion."

Clemson is not the Supreme Court. Therefore, Dabo cannot violate it. Secondly, even if Dabo WAS the Supreme Court, he isn't passing legislation. Thirdly, my uncle is a long time fist amendment attorney and I am merely stating his position, according to the law as written. Also, separation of Church and State is a suggestion, written by Jefferson in a letter to a baptist association. Ignorant people think it is a law.

Finally, the 1st Amendment states "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." This means we have freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion.



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doggdetroit

January 7th, 2016 at 7:04 PM ^

It's not ridiculous. Arian Foster recently discussed how he felt ostracized by Phil Fulmer who did the same type of things Dabo is doing at Tennessee. "Voluntary" church attendence that was basically mandatory despite Foster being an atheist:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13369076/houston-texans-arian-foster-…


Dabo is in a position of authority at a public insitution. It's pretty naive to think that if you're a player under him, there will not be consequences if you don't attend these "voluntary" church outings or buy in to what he's literally preaching. 

And does it matter than people get ostracized for other things more often than their religious status? Does that make it OK in your eyes?

 

 

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drjaws

January 7th, 2016 at 3:22 PM ^

On app and don't want to log in to edit.

The whole 1st Amendment was written to ensure people can worship, regardless of what their religion is, or not to worship anything at all if they choose.

It wasn't written to protect people from observing any religion ever.

Should elementary schools make kids pray? No fucking way.

Should they allow a kid to say a prayer to themselves before a meal? Yes fucking way. Should kids be able to get together and pray? Yes fucking way. Should an atheist kid be able to not do any of that with no repercussions? Yes fucking way.



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bgoblue02

January 7th, 2016 at 3:48 PM ^

that a singular religious agenda shouldn't be pushed; to be fair I would argue a football coach isn't paid with tax payer dollars given the amount of non-taxpayer money that the football program brings in.  

 

Yadda yadda if they are operating at a deficit their filler may come from tax payer money but still I would argue his portion is clearly from tickets, endorsements, and donors.  

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drjaws

January 7th, 2016 at 4:11 PM ^

Doesn't matter. The school itself doesn't "support" one religion over another. No one is forced. If this is to be eliminated, so should Muslim clubs, young dem/republican clubs etc.

Why religion is a belief that gets solely singled out as a "no no" is stupid and simple minded since virtually all other beliefs are openly expressed.

How people think suppression of public expression of religion is crucial, yet public expression of virtually all other beliefs is OK under the 1st amendment is idiotic.



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Stay.Classy.An…

January 7th, 2016 at 3:27 PM ^

I understand that your opinion is your opinion, and that doesn't make it right or wrong. I guess I just have a couple of questions about your statements and am looking for further clarification to help me better understand your opinion.

Nothing in regards to #1, coaches often play this card to keep their team motivated, most of the time the only people that hate this are fanbases of teams that have just had their butts kicked by said team. That being said, Dantonio is the only person I will ever chastise for that.

In regard to #2, should a person really have to closet their faith or religious advocation because they are employed by a public school? I guess I don't quite follow that part and have never understood it. You can or "should" only talk about your relationship with God if you coach at a christian school...? 1) If strongly encouraged means you get benched, demoted, or hazed for not attending, then this is inappropriate and would be fundamentally un-Christian. If strongly encouraged just means Dabo reminding the players about it several times....who cares? 2) If the player asked to be baptized, again, who cares? Did he require all the other players to watch or just invite them to attend? Maybe this intervention by God and Dabo changed this young man's life, I think we should be celebrating that fact. 3) I'm sure this Christian Chaplain is available to speak with anyone on the team about personal matters, not just the "church going folk" maybe he is even a Chaplain with a Master's in Social Work , which would mean he is a "Social Worker" who is educated in therapy and is also a Chaplain. Your statement makes it sound like he is part of Dabo's entourage who is just there to "enjoy his backstage pass". 4) Could you link to an article where literally the whole Clemson football team attended this  Christian Athletes event? I find that hard to believe, but if in fact, literally, the whole team went, maybe some just went to support their teammates? Maybe some of them went because they got to go the Sizzler afterwards? I'm sure there was something in it for everyone, not just the whole "what will happen to me if I don't go" thing. 

In closing, are you advocating for the non-Christians that are being "forced" to do things they don't want to for fear of being outcasts on the team? Or are you simply stating that God has no place at a public institution ever? If it's #2, we can agree to disagree. If it's #1, if Dabo truly is a Christian, he would never make anybody feel like a lesser person for not being a Christian. 

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drjaws

January 7th, 2016 at 4:54 PM ^

This.

Also, you say

"are you advocating for the non-Christians that are being "forced" to do things they don't want to for fear of being outcasts on the team?"

How is forcing them to NOT practice their religion different from forcing them to practice it? In both instances, someone's beliefs are being shut down.

To have true freedom, we all have to be free to live how we feel we should live. Not tell people when or where it is OK to practice their faith with like minded individuals.



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robpollard

January 7th, 2016 at 5:33 PM ^

Regarding point 1) It is lame when a #1 team continually complains about "lack of respect" and "no one" believes in you; by definition, the poll voters / committee thinks you are literally better than everyone else. I find that annoying.

Regarding point 2) I'm not sure you understand the law. A player doesn't have to "closet" anything; he is not employed by the state. If Joe Player is a Christian and asks his friends on the team to join him for bible study or to attend church with him after practice, fine. But state-owend facilities should not be used for religious activities endorsed by state employees, particular one's who are the boss.  Overall, the coach is the boss, paid by the state; when he is on company time and/or in his company role, I don't want him "leading" or "encouraging" students to do any religious activities. Here's what I mean -- I'm not OK with this (and I think it's against the law, but it's the south and any public official who makes a stink about this is going to have hell to pay):

"Make (Church Day) as mandatory as you can make it," Bowden says now, proud he had only one player miss services in nine years at the school. Swinney, a former assistant on Bowden's staff, continued the tradition when he took over the program in 2008. (NewSpring Church Pastor) Noble has led so many players to Christ he has lost count. "Thank the Lord for this," he says, "but we've baptized so many I'm not really sure."

Again, it seems like Dabo is a more than decent guy, his players seem to like him as much as the next coach, and I'm sure he plays whichever player he feels is best (Christian or not) for Clemson. It still doesn't make the activities he is doing right.

Read more here: 

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/article10039001.html#storylink=cpy
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/where-college-football-is-a-religion-and-religion-shapes-college-football/2014/08/29/8d03de32-2dfa-11e4-bb9b-997ae96fad33_story.html
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/group-files-complaint-asking-clemson-separate-religion-from-football-191318852.html

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The Mad Hatter

January 7th, 2016 at 1:26 PM ^

He seems fairly likeable.  I heard a radio interview he did yesterday, and he's a helluva lot more willing to talk about upcoming opponents and games than any Michigan coach I can remember.  

I think my own bias comes from some negative personal experiences with people that were very public with their faith, and were also huge assholes to the people around them.

 

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carolina blue

January 7th, 2016 at 1:25 PM ^

I get your point but understand that discussion of his religion and belief in God in public is exactly what he, and all other believers, are called to do by the Bible and religion in general. Put God first is the teaching, so if he truly does put God first it is no surprise that He is mentioned frequently in those situations.



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Optimism Attache

January 7th, 2016 at 1:25 PM ^

Religion and discussions of it aren't my cup of tea either, but there is a difference between proselytizing or being annoying about it and just making honest statements about how one's faith affects them. I'm fine with the latter. Doesn't mean I'll be thanking god for blessing me after my next promotion.

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BlueFaninCincy

January 7th, 2016 at 1:45 PM ^

I just have a low tolerance for rah-rah, clappy, yeeaaahhhhh stuff from coaches.  I prefer the steely-eyed leader of men type.  The coach can have a little fun and smiling is definitely allowed.  Don't want no Mike D'Antonis.  But don't get carried away.  Its the reason I can't stand Pete Carroll.  Guy needs to decide whether he's a %*$#ing cheerleader or coach.

Goofy people can be a lot of fun.  But I don't want a goof as my surgeon, pilot, or football coach.

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wahooverine

January 7th, 2016 at 2:03 PM ^

Goofy people aren't neccessarily goofy all the time and can compartmentalize it. I bet there are goofy pilots and surgeons. He is certainly eccentric in his personality but I've seen many interviews where he is a normal adult and he seems like a great guy and smart coach.  Our own coach can sometimes be wild eyed and playful and a totally sober adult.   As for steely eyed... did you see him rip into his punter when he pulled a rogue fake and didn't make the first down?

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TdK71

January 7th, 2016 at 1:21 PM ^

And she has told me stories of how kind and giving back to the community the whole Clemson coaching staff is, Dabo is as advertised and real as it gets. If you know the story of Ray Ray McLendon you should know that it was Dabo that pushed Tommy Bowden to seek the waiver that helped him care for his little brother and be declared his legal guardian. 

I've been going down to Clemson since my parents retired there back in '90 and I can see why they chose that location, the people there are some of the warmest friendliest that you will ever meet. 

I say good for Dabo and Clemson, if Michigan can't win the title this year I couldn;'t think of any other team I'd like to see win it than Clemson. They have great fans and truly appreciate the sport of college football.

Go! Tigers! Beat Bama!

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