OT: Chicago Bears likely to move to suburbs
The vast majority of us are football fans. This thread touches on the NFL, and specifically, the Chicago Bears - though, it may find it's way into the CFP conversation.
The Chicago Bears announced they purchased the land of Arlington Park (horse) race track and surrounding area. It's about 30 miles from downtown Chicago (in the northwest suburbs).
A couple of questions...
Do you travel to see your team play? If so, do you usually stay in / near the city they are playing in?
If you've been to Chicago - Soldier Field - have you stayed downtown? And, if so, did you like the location of Soldier Field, being on the lake, access to the city, other things to do, etc.
Now, how could this impact the CFP? Well, the Bears will need to build a stadium, and - I would assume that it would either be enclosed - or, at a minimum, have a retractable roof. And, when the CFP expands - I assume it could be a destination for a CFP playoff game.
The key is - Arlington Heights is a suburb. It has hotels, but nowhere near the amount of hotel space that the city does. Though it's a nice suburb, it really is residential and doesn't have a lot of nightlife.
I think a new downtown stadium with retractable roof on / near the lakefront would have been ideal. But, it doesn't look like that's not going to happen - and the team Papa Bear Halas founded - one of the men who influenced the creation of the NFL - will be in the suburbs.
Any thoughts? The Lions play the Bears annually in Chicago. Do you care?
Personally - I think it's terrible.
February 15th, 2023 at 5:11 PM ^
As a Lions fan, I hope they put a roof on the stadium because I cheer for a dome team. For the CFP, I'm happy for any opportunities to get postseason football in the Midwest. The SEC and Pac12 play pseudo home games in the postseason.
February 15th, 2023 at 7:11 PM ^
Screw that. Football is meant to be played outdoors.
February 16th, 2023 at 7:20 AM ^
at noon.
February 16th, 2023 at 9:08 AM ^
Toe meets leather at 1pm. If the cameras would like to be there and film it, that's fine.
February 15th, 2023 at 8:14 PM ^
The pseudo home games thing is a bunch of malarkey. IMO they should move away from bowls being semifinal games. They should move to a set of rotating locations like SoFi, Lucas Oil, Jerry world, Mercedes Benz, Caesars, and Ford Field. All domed with turf fields in various locations around the country.
February 15th, 2023 at 10:01 PM ^
OMG, how lame would that be? Even the NFL only plays one neutral-field game per year, the Super Bowl. Games should be on campuses, even the conference championship game.
February 15th, 2023 at 11:29 PM ^
As exciting as that would be, a semifinal being at Michigan Stadium in the month of January just isn’t going to happen and I can’t fault the NCAA for that. NFL stadiums are better equipped for entertaining. Halftime shows, cameras, lighting, multiple levels of concessions, bathrooms, etc. Michigan stadium does none of those things well and don’t even get me started on the Wi-Fi or the tunnel. SEC doesn’t want to play in the cold and we know it’s their decision anyway.
February 16th, 2023 at 10:25 AM ^
What? I'm entertained at Michigan stadium. This is a silly notion that, despite fans not having constant bullshit in their faces for 100 years of football, they now need that "entertainment" pumped through their veins in every second of their attendance. NFL stadium experiences are garbage, and unlike college experiences, which is why I greatly prefer college sports. Why do the playoffs in college, presumably with the same fanbase that watches the regular season in these boring college stadiums, need to then have the entertainment (i.e. ADHD garbage media) experience of NFL stadiums? That makes no sense.
Now, your cold weather complaint is more sound, but still sucks. The NFL and it's fans aren't trying to get their semifinals moved to FL and CA. Those fans love them at home in Green Bay and New England. So, obviously it's doable and doesn't take away from the fan experience. At the least, the B1G championship should be on a college campus. Keep the money and the experience in the college communities. It would be awesome if the B1G championship rotated through all the B1G cities. Alas, money matters much more these days and the fat cats in Indy are making the right bribes. But it's totally lame that the B1G championship is in that sterile money-suck,
February 16th, 2023 at 10:37 AM ^
Michigan does have multiple levels of concessions. Also it's a college football game, which Michigan Stadium is fairly experienced at hosting so I think it'd go fine.
February 16th, 2023 at 10:44 AM ^
Why wouldnt it happen? What difference does it make that the game is in January? Michigan stadium is perfectly capable of hosting top 5 match ups and has done so plenty of times
If you can play home playoff games in Green Bay and Buffalo in January, zero reason you can't do the same in Ann Arbor
February 16th, 2023 at 12:28 AM ^
I mean it’s not as lame as B1G teams having to travel much further than SEC teams for a playoff game every year (as cool as it would be I just don’t see the NCAA letting playoff games be played outside in the north). March Madness and the Frozen Four are played at rotating neutral site venues. Do you have a problem with those?
February 16th, 2023 at 10:27 AM ^
I don't watch hockey, so I don't have or lack a problem with that. The NCAA B-Ball tournament is a different experience, designed around a bunch of successive games in the same gym. It captures a different excitement than a football game. If they could have 4 football playoff games on the same neutral NFL field, and I could go watch for 16 hours, then hell-yes I'd go for that.
February 15th, 2023 at 5:11 PM ^
This has been pretty much a done deal for some time. My biggest gripe is that Arlington Race Track is no longer. It was by far the nicest race track in nation (yep, even nicer than Churchill Downs, Belmont, etc.) and loved taking family there.
With that, Soldier Field looks cool on the outside, but:
1. It's hard to get to, even for city folk
2. It has a horrible tailgate culture because of the location
3. I read that 60% of people who go to Bears games are in the suburbs
4. The inside still kinda sucks, despite the major improvement 20 years ago
February 15th, 2023 at 5:24 PM ^
Saratoga race track would like a word. The race tracks you mentioned never get mentioned as the best by those in the sport. Saratoga does.
Churchill is not great and Belmont is gross and stale.
February 15th, 2023 at 5:39 PM ^
Del Mar and Santa Anita are going to elbow their way into this conversation. Just gorgeous tracks in stunningly beautiful locations.
February 15th, 2023 at 5:57 PM ^
Yep, Saratoga is pretty special! Glad the Saratoga season got expanded, it deserves it!
February 15th, 2023 at 6:38 PM ^
What makes Saratoga unique is that the racehorses are walked right through the picnic grounds. You are literally within arms length of these beautiful horses. I’m no expert on horses, but the first time a racehorse walked by me at Saratoga, I was surprised how I could see every muscle and vein in those horses.
Plus, you can walk to the track from downtown Saratoga, which happens to be an amazing small city.
February 15th, 2023 at 8:27 PM ^
Churchill isn’t even the nicest in the state. I’d take Keeneland any day of the week.
February 17th, 2023 at 11:11 AM ^
Keeneland is beautiful. Churchill Downs in person is not what it seems on TV. And the surrounding area leaves much to be desired.
February 16th, 2023 at 4:36 AM ^
I lived in Fort Edward for a bit. Saratoga Springs is such a nice little city. I miss it.
February 16th, 2023 at 1:15 PM ^
(waving high from 'toga, lived here since 2006)
February 15th, 2023 at 5:28 PM ^
I always seem to take the south shoreline train into Chicago on the days there's a home game. It's a nightmare. It's a logistical nightmare.
February 15th, 2023 at 5:42 PM ^
I also enjoyed Arlington Race Track - so no gripes there.
Howeva, I have to disagree with some of your other points.
1) How is it hard to get to for people in the city? Plenty of public transportation options, you could walk a block or two from the stadium and easily find a cab -- or if you live anywhere reasonably located (Think Lincoln Park and south) - you could just huff it a few miles -- especially for those early season games.
2) The two stadiums I frequent the most are the Big House and Soldier Field. No argument that the tailgaiting culture is light years better in Ann Arbor, but from the other pro stadiums I've been to (including Ford Field) I don't think Soldier Field is all that different. I think it ultimately comes down to who you know, where you're hanging out, what type of tailgate scene you're expecting so YMMV
February 15th, 2023 at 7:04 PM ^
getting to the stadium is awful. try getting a cab after the game. lol. if you take the train, you still have to walk at least a mile to get to soldier field. parking is also awful unless you have an expensive parking pass. the city fumbled by never creating an arm of the el to go directly to soldier field and the museum campus there.
i live on the northside near wrigley and i bet i could get to the new stadium in arlington in less time than soldier field.
February 15th, 2023 at 7:33 PM ^
I don’t know about you, but taking a cab (or bus) is not an ideal way to get to any stadium. The best I could do when I was living in Bucktown/Ukrainian Village was to get to the redline and drop me off at the Roosevelt stop, then schlep it about a half mile.
Think about how you can take the redline to both Comisky and Wrigley and it will drop you off basically right there. This is where I think Arlington may have an advantage. The Metra has a stop right out in front of the racetrack.
As for tailgating, unless you have super good parking privileges, you’ll be relegated to parking on the other side of McCormick Place then bus it.
February 16th, 2023 at 9:39 AM ^
If I was traveling to Chicago for a game, I would likely stay downtown and take the train to Arlington. That doesn't seem like a big deal assuming service doesn't stop at night.
Soldier field barely felt like it was in the city other than driving by it on the way in and out. It would require planning to get to it just like Arlington.
February 15th, 2023 at 8:05 PM ^
You think anyone is “huffing” it from Lincoln Park to Soldier Field? Come on, you don’t know Chicago.
February 16th, 2023 at 11:04 AM ^
I've done it multiple times, it is far no doubt (a little over an hour walk) - but like I said to each its own. If you want to argue that it could be easier (i.e., Wrigley or whatever the Sox park is called these days) then I would absolutely agree. But for the vast majority of people in the city, the commute to Soldier Field, in whatever form that takes for you, is easier than it will be once the Bears are in Arlington Heights.
February 16th, 2023 at 1:35 PM ^
I can see walking that distance, but it would take me about 3 hours since I'd stop at like 5 different bars on my trek. Ha!
February 15th, 2023 at 6:38 PM ^
The city of Chicago was willing to throw a ton of money into upgrading soldier field. The artist rendering I saw of it looked very nice. I’m guessing the bears just wanted to live out of the city
February 15th, 2023 at 7:12 PM ^
the last upgrade is only 20 years old. the city messed it up the first time. horrible job of blending the new with the old columns. it looks like a spaceship landed in the coliseum. and the bears have a horrible revenue deal. it's a no brainer to get the hell out and build a retractable dome.
February 15th, 2023 at 8:07 PM ^
Still small, still not owned by the team.
February 16th, 2023 at 10:49 AM ^
Exactly. They were willing to add a new CTA station that could drop fans off right there, which means none of the most common gripes hold any water. The Bears just want their own full control of a stadium and clearly don't really care about their fans.
February 15th, 2023 at 6:56 PM ^
WindyCityBlue hit the nail on the head. Soldier Field is hard to get to, parking is brutal, tailgating is a challenge and the stadium itself ain't great. Only an out of towner would look at a Bears move to Arlington Heights and think, "well doesn't that just stink."
It is a fair point about nightlife in Arlington Heights v Chicago (for out of towners.) But if that matters to an individual there is something called Uber, which most people would have to use at Soldier Field anyway because it is a bit of a walk from Soldier Field to civilization. As for hotels in Arlington Heights, they exist. And more will be built when the Bears move.
February 16th, 2023 at 8:54 AM ^
Yep, 100%. Also, Arlington Heights is pretty much O'Hare-adjacent, meaning you're within like 10 minutes of all the surrounding airport hotels and convention centers. Not to mention the NW side is probably the most densely-packed set of suburbs in the area, so even you're not right in Arlington Heights there are plenty of other places not far away.
As a Lions fan living in Chicago for 15 years, I've only been to a handful of Bears games, but even when I lived in the South Loop or Printer's Row, it was STILL a huge pain in the ass to get to Soldier Field. And that is the sentiment of every person in Chicago I've talked to, Bears fans or otherwise, without exception. Basically, it was buy an expensive parking pass or plan for a long ass commute no matter where you're coming from.
February 16th, 2023 at 3:02 PM ^
I mean, coming from a Chicago suburb native and current city resident, the Chicago burbs are some of the most bland and milquetoast in the country. I'm also a huge proponent of building vibrant, pedestrian friendly urban spaces so to me there is no legitimate comparison of Arlington Heights to the city of Chicago and the lakefront campus. The backdrop is the most beautiful in the NFL. I just can't imagine a bland, corporate domed stadium in a place like AH as something to be excited about. Why would a super bowl in Arlington Heights in February be cool for anyone?
Second, this is not a done deal by any means. Common sense is that the Bears want to "own" the property but only four NFL teams actually own their stadium. Owning the property and all the financing means owning all the risk. Without public funds the private financing markets right now are prohibitive. This is not the optimal market conditions to be seeking billions of private money. Any new owner would be stuck with this financing structure until they can refinance and interested parties in that structure have to be limited.
Speaking of the stadium development, yes the Bears hired Kevin Warren who led the effort for the Vikings new stadium. That stadium was built with a unique public private partnership; i.e the Vikings and the city of Minneapolis decided that the most optimal financial structure was NOT full ownership of the stadium.
Done right, development of the lakefront property offers an opportunity to create one of the best fan experiences in the NFL, greater pricing opportunity, while also not saddling the Bears with prohibitive financing structure
- Lakefront tailgating and fan experiences in a PARK, not a suburban parking lot (think Wimbledon, college tailgating, unique and organic atmospheres)
- Higher quality dining and entertainment than anything Arlington Heights can attract
- Upgraded train (Metra and CTA) infrastructure leading directly to the stadium site
- Watch sites in the park and adjacent to the stadium for city visitors and residents who don't actually go to the game
February 16th, 2023 at 3:11 PM ^
Saratoga is tops for horse racing. Plain and simple. Arlington? If Arlington was the best, it wouldn't have closed. While tracks across the country are consolidating and closing, Saratoga is expanding its meet and is thriving.
February 15th, 2023 at 5:20 PM ^
Up until 2020, ~95% of the gun related violent crimes were in about 5 neighborhoods that were far from anything worth a visit.
With that, I do get a chuckle when I talk weather with colleagues and they say, "Hey WindyCityBlue, how's the lead rain there in Chicago?"
February 15th, 2023 at 5:28 PM ^
I have one for you:
The city has issues. For sensational coverage, go here: https://cwbchicago.com/
But, also look at the details here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate
You could do a lot worse.
February 15th, 2023 at 5:34 PM ^
Yeah, Chicago doesn't even crack the top ten Cities in murder rate per capita.
But back to the topic at hand - I have a buddy that lives near the proposed new stadium site. It is waaaaaay out there and I can't imagine traveling that far for a game...
February 15th, 2023 at 5:39 PM ^
The Pontiac silverdome II
February 15th, 2023 at 7:13 PM ^
I am thinking the same thing. The Lions made it work during the Silverdome days in Pontiac. Besides, the Chicago metro has a superior interstate highway system so it shouldn't be a commuting issue for Bears fans throughout the Chicago metro area.
February 15th, 2023 at 5:47 PM ^
Correct - anybody thinking that this will be a more optimal location for fans is highly delusional. Especially because unlike the Sox or Cubs - Bears fans live all around the metro area and Arlington Heights is an hour without traffic from the closest places on the southside
February 15th, 2023 at 7:16 PM ^
currently 41 min from my house near wrigley to arlington park per google maps. 6pm local. so still kind of rush hour traffic.
50 min from comiskey park on the southside
February 16th, 2023 at 6:58 AM ^
If anything it’s helpful for visiting fans — right there by Ohare. Thanks Bears!
February 15th, 2023 at 6:55 PM ^
To be fair, Chicago is the 3rd biggest city and dwarfs many of the cities above it on the list. Much of Chicago is very nice, but there is a sizeable area with a crime rate as high as anywhere in the US.
February 15th, 2023 at 7:23 PM ^
Look at the per-100K murder numbers for Baltimore and St. Louis in the Wikipedia link I provided earlier. They're much higher than Chicago's number.
If a city with a million people has 20% violent neighborhoods and one with 200K has 40% violent neighborhoods, which one is more dangerous?
February 16th, 2023 at 8:49 PM ^
St Louis has 293K people, Chicago has 2,697K people. Chicago is 9.2 times bigger.
Chicago is 234.5 sq miles, St Louis is 66.2 sq miles. By area, Chicago is 3.5 times bigger.
My point is that Chicago dwarfs St. Louis in population and area.
The worst Chicago neighborhoods are every bit as bad as the worst St. Louis neighborhoods.
Chicago is massive and has world class city amenities, many rich and middle class neighborhoods that St. Louis has nothing comparable.
However, there is every bit as much blight, poverty, and high crime in the downtrodden areas of Chicago as St. Louis.