OT: Casey Mize and Tarik Skubal
Maybe it was a mistake bringing up Mize and Skubal? The 7 game sample size is pretty small but they have been hit pretty hard. You can see the talent, but hopefully this doesn't hurt their confidence.
September 24th, 2020 at 2:44 PM ^
...and Justin Feagin.
September 24th, 2020 at 2:44 PM ^
Please delete this. There are no minors this year, thus they wouldn't be facing live hitting if they weren't called up. It's not that complicated.
September 24th, 2020 at 6:18 PM ^
They should have been up from the start or close to it. I am not up on all the rules about years of service but heard they greatly modified how that works so maybe it would have been fine.
This team was not going to win it all this year. Get them game experience and develop.
September 24th, 2020 at 6:48 PM ^
They were brought up almost immediately after their length of service and arbitration deadlines had passed. They were brought up at the exact right time to maintain team control as long as possible.
September 24th, 2020 at 2:45 PM ^
You never know how getting knocked around may affect someone's confidence, but in a shortened, throw-away season, the lessons they're learning about hanging 0-2 breaking balls or grooving fastballs in predictable fastball counts to MLB hitters simply can't be learned elsewhere. Mize and Skubal are exceptional physical talents. Learning the mental toughness aspect, as well as the price of leaving hittable pitches up in the zone, are critical for young pitchers to develop into long terms assets.
September 24th, 2020 at 2:47 PM ^
I don't think confidence is an issue. They had to pitch them in the MLB since there was nowhere else to get competitive situations. It would haver been better if they had been able to play at Toledo for 5 months and then come up but COVID.
September 24th, 2020 at 2:48 PM ^
They were probably not quite ready for the big leagues even though most Tigers fans were screaming for them. But in this case I think you have to roll the dice and hope they learn from it:
- There aren't conventional minor league games this year
- The Tigers have terrible pitching, not like there were better guys to throw out there
- The Tigers, while fringe contenders with this goofy playoff format, were never really going to compete this year and thus it was probably worth their development
I was actually starting to get intrigued for the Tigers as they hovered around .500 and had some interesting players to watch. Then they lost two key players to injury, their pitching continued to suck, and they ended up right where we expected. As we say with all Detroit sports teams....maybe next year.
September 24th, 2020 at 3:27 PM ^
The Pistons are looking to tank next season so maybe once Weaver fields a competitive team. Just need to find a way to trade Blake and D-Rose. Rose is much easier to trade away with his contract and contenders looking for backup PG. Blake, on the other hand, is much harder to trade away due to his injury history and contract, but luckily he has 2 years left after this season.
They simply need to build around Sekou and other players are all tradeable. I would include Kennard due to his age compared to Sekou but he'll be an useful asset since he can shoot and be a secondary ball handler. This draft, the Pistons need to go with high upside prospect and hope that they have a hit.
September 24th, 2020 at 2:52 PM ^
Hey it beats blabbering about COVID. As a baseball fan who has been in fantasy baseball leagues for 32 years (long before fantasy leagues became the rage), I appreciate Mize and Skubal being brought north. At this juncture, I'd say that Skubal is a little ahead of Mize but there's no doubt they have the talent to make it in the bigs. Both need AAA seasoning but the time spent in Detroit will help them realize they have more work to do to improve their repertoire. More often than not, a player's first "cup of coffee" is a wake-up call. Chalk it up to experience. Learn from it. Make changes to improve and become more consistent. If they do that, they'll be just fine.
September 24th, 2020 at 3:18 PM ^
Agreed on Skubal being ahead of Mize at the moment. Skubal has shown better command so far. Mize's raw stuff is definitely better though, so if he can lock down the command, he'll be the ace pitcher we hoped he would be. Similar to others though, hopefully they can take the bumps this year in stride and use this year as a good learning experience, rather than a confidence killer.
September 24th, 2020 at 2:55 PM ^
As Crash Davis told Nuke Laloosh, those major league hitters are going to light you up at first. Happens to almost everyone.
September 24th, 2020 at 3:15 PM ^
Too bad there isn't a mascot to throw at...
September 24th, 2020 at 3:33 PM ^
I held it like an egg.
September 24th, 2020 at 6:34 PM ^
Yeah, and he scrambled the sonofabitch.
September 24th, 2020 at 2:57 PM ^
They're going to be hit hard in the majors at some point; might as well be during a weird quarter-season where there aren't minor leagues. I sorta doubt any of these guys will have lingering issues from 7 games.
September 24th, 2020 at 3:00 PM ^
Their stats are not good, but they're not disastrous, and probably not bad enough to hurt their confidence. Worth getting them a cup of coffee vs not playing in competitive games. Verlander did a bit worse when he got a "cup of coffee" in 2005. Not saying they'll be Verlander, but their performances are not unusual for 1st year pitchers.
September 24th, 2020 at 3:10 PM ^
The massive amount of injuries to the Tigers pitching staff, the very few callup options, being in playoff contention most of the year, and their premium pitching prospects needing innings meant that it was inevitable Skubal and Mize come up ready or not ready.
Skubal missed all of summer camp with Covid, therefore his only appearances before his callup was pitching against a very select few minor leaguers. Mize really only has a year of minor league expereince if you combine his short draft year season and injury shortaned 2019 season.
They will be fine. Verlander had a 7.15 ERA in his rookie season. Scherzer bounced around between the majors and minors for a bit in his first few years. Those guys ended up being fine. Mize and Skubal just need some minor tweaks and more experience. The stuff is clearly there.
September 24th, 2020 at 3:13 PM ^
I am more surprised that Manning was not called up - especially ahead of Skubal.
But yeah, i was hoping for one of them, more-so Mize, to do much better.
September 24th, 2020 at 6:59 PM ^
Can’t speak for earlier in the season, but I remember reading that Manning had a forearm injury and was shut down for the year at the end of August. Possibly something he had been battling for a while.
September 24th, 2020 at 3:18 PM ^
Yeah, getting pounded in MLB can't be any worse than sitting on their ass throwing simulated games in the non-existent minors this year.
Both will probably start out back in the minors next year, which is fine.
September 24th, 2020 at 3:27 PM ^
Maybe it's the Lions' fault. The Lions have been so bad for so long that the Tigers can coast, knowing they're not the worst Detroit pro team.
September 24th, 2020 at 3:43 PM ^
I think they haven't been that bad although their numbers suggest otherwise. They've strung together a couple good innings here and there. I think they've learned a lot.
I'm not sure how much not having fans there hurts them. You're excited for your first major league starts but at the same time there is no energy and seems like practice still. Some people are just gamers and can feed off of a crowd.
I am worried about Mize. I thought he was supposed to basically be ready to go right out of college and he still needs some seasoning.
Willi Castro though...why isn't he getting talked about more?
September 24th, 2020 at 6:48 PM ^
Castro is one of the benefits of this season: finding out who you've got going forward, and who you don't. He, Reyes, and Candalario are three guys who've shown they can be everyday players. Jones was having a pretty good season before he got injured yet again. But defensively, Reyes and Jones cover a lot of ground in Comerica's OF. Who's the third guy? Cameron, Demeritte, and Hill all need more time at Toledo. Bonifacio is a borderline major leaguer at best, and Stewart is a Triple-A star who hasn't done jack in the majors and may be running out of time.
Infield-wise, Goodrum got his chance to be the everyday SS, and ended up showing why he's a utility player. Paredes is too soon to tell. I'll be interested to see him in the spring after he plays winter ball in Mexico.
And Miggy will spend the rest of his career inching up the MLB HR / RBI records lists, batting .240, and getting paid $24M a year to do it. Like many stars at the end of their careers, he's getting paid for what he was.
September 24th, 2020 at 7:31 PM ^
There is no such thing as an immediatly ready out of college player. Everyone needs minor league seasoning and potentially a major league adjustment period.
The only exception is if you have a very high end starter pitch a couple of innings out of the bullpen.
September 24th, 2020 at 3:46 PM ^
If either of them are that mentally weak, they weren't going to make it anyways.
September 24th, 2020 at 3:57 PM ^
Always tough to assess young players like these on struggling teams like the Tigers, hope is they can get squared away the longer theyre in the league and eventually get to rotation status as the Tigers improve
September 24th, 2020 at 5:28 PM ^
It’s not uncommon for rookie pitchers to get knocked around. Most of them can shake it off - there’s a reason they’ve gotten as far as they can. Remember those Atlanta pitching staffs that were so good? Tom Glavine was 7-17 in his first full MLB season. Maddux was 6-14in his. Smoltz was 2-7 in his rookie season. Sandy Koufax went 36-40 from 1955 through 1960, pitching for a team that went to the World Series three times. Sixto Sanchez was the toast of baseball before his last two starts, in which he yielded 12 hits, six walks and nine runs in seven innings. MLB pitching is very hard. The question for Mize, Skubal, etc., is whether they’ll be able to make the adjustments they need. The fact that they were hit hard in some games during an abortion of a season is of little consequence.
September 24th, 2020 at 7:35 PM ^
Great history lesson. Appreciated.
September 24th, 2020 at 5:34 PM ^
Mize has barely thrown his best pitch (splitter) and Skubal has barely thrown his 2nd best pitch (12-6 curve). It's Skubal's 2nd best pitch only because his FB is elite.
I am not sure why that is, it could be a number of reasons.
September 24th, 2020 at 6:19 PM ^
Rookies rarely do well when they get called up it’s all about getting experience against major league pitching. Clearly the OP doesn’t understand baseball
September 24th, 2020 at 7:37 PM ^
Yep. Agreed. I don't understand baseball. Thanks for helping.
September 24th, 2020 at 8:10 PM ^
IMO-Skubal looked really nasty at times he is almost certain to start the 2021 year in the majors. I am glad Mize got a taste of what it takes. Needs to refine the splitter and add some more movement on his fastball. All fixable facing an AAA battery.
..and the Tigers are tanking nicely right now and could possibly add the best hitting prospect in the draft if they get up to the third pick in the first round.
September 25th, 2020 at 8:29 AM ^
Mize and Skubal will be fine; I can see both of them ( as long as they have good arm health) being top-of-the-rotation pitchers within a couple years.
Manning has potential too, but only if he gets over his command issues. I don't think he's likely to see the Majors until he gets better command of his pitches. From everything I've read, he's got MLB stuff but that doesn't cut it if you're consistently behind in the count. Major league hitters are going to feast on that.