OT: Brian Kelly Overrated?
I was listening to the Michigan Insider podcast, and Sam Webb had an interesting question as to whether Brian Kelly was a bit overrated. I hate Notre Dame as much as the next fan, but I also recognize Notre Dame as being one of the toughest college football jobs. Plus, I'm looking forward to seeing him turn purple in a couple years.
September 26th, 2016 at 12:28 PM ^
He's a good coach, not great. There are only 3 great coaches in college football right now.
Saban (currently the man, did it at LSU, now dominating at Bama)
Meyer (won everywhere he's been)
Harbaugh (Built Stanford, was great in the NFL, all signs pointing up at UM)
You can throw out names like Herman and Petrino and Dantonio, but those first 3 are truly elite in all aspects (recruiting, strategy, managing the program, managing the brand). All the rest are slightly lacking in one area or another. Not saying they cant achieve great success or even reach the elite level, but I don't think it's a streatch to say Saban, Meyer, and Harbaugh are kind of in a different league than the rest.
September 26th, 2016 at 12:29 PM ^
September 26th, 2016 at 12:32 PM ^
September 26th, 2016 at 1:12 PM ^
The funny thing is that despite being an offensive guy, up until recently his offenses have been pretty mediocre, and in their good seasons it was the defense that carried them. It probably wasn't until last year that their offense really reached what I would have expected from him, and now the defense is so horrendous that they're losing shootouts to Duke and Texas and getting run over by a one-dimensional MSU team.
September 26th, 2016 at 1:38 PM ^
September 26th, 2016 at 2:01 PM ^
I went to Grand Valley State University for undergraduate, and spent a semester working with the football department my senior year. Matt Mitchell's team was still using some of Brian Kelley's plays from his time there as part of there core offense. I really belive that Kelly at least at one point was and possibily still is one of the best X/O coaches in football.
September 26th, 2016 at 12:38 PM ^
September 26th, 2016 at 12:42 PM ^
September 26th, 2016 at 12:43 PM ^
September 26th, 2016 at 12:46 PM ^
What he did at Cincinnati was remarkable. His offenses merit fear when he has a good QB. And he recruits very well.
But he's too dependent on his DC to produce a good defense to be a great HC. And his ND teams never seem to coalesce into something greater than the sum of their parts.
September 26th, 2016 at 12:47 PM ^
Best coach the domers have had since Holtz. Fair warning though, he will throw his players under the bus.
September 26th, 2016 at 4:39 PM ^
Saying a coach is better than Bob Davie, Tyrone Willingham, and Charlie Weis is the definition of damning with faint praise.
September 26th, 2016 at 8:33 PM ^
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September 26th, 2016 at 12:54 PM ^
Is there some special affection folks have for Ira? When I listen to WTKA, I listen for the dulcet tones and endless wisdom of one Samuel Webb. To have this dude with marbles in his mouth shrieking over top the main man's wisdom is like having Bob Ross interupting Monet with painting advice.
September 26th, 2016 at 12:58 PM ^
September 26th, 2016 at 12:58 PM ^
September 26th, 2016 at 12:59 PM ^
and hire Les Miles. Les should then engineer a ND move to the Big 10 and retire immediately thereafter.
September 26th, 2016 at 10:33 PM ^
Even Les knows not to get into bed with Notre Dame...
September 27th, 2016 at 10:35 AM ^
They'll pay him $7 million per year, even if they fire him. Every coach should want to coach at ND (also Iowa).
September 26th, 2016 at 12:59 PM ^
Cryin' Belly.
I'm glad that 80s cro-magnon lookin' m**********r Van Gorden is gone. He was awful and for some reason the TV cameras loved cutting to him. He was ugly as hell and he sucked
September 26th, 2016 at 1:03 PM ^
I was an all-state linebacker in high school and was recruited by several MAC schools. Received preferred walk-on offers from WMU, EMU, CMU. Received several DII partial scholarship offers. Settled on Grand Valley. Played for Brian Kelly. He signed a contract extension at that time that took his salary to $90K a year, which, he told us, allowed him buy a new Ford Explorer.
All the coaches at GVSU at that time had to teach as well. Brian taught Football Coaching Theory. Really interesting to understand his approach from a teaching perspective combined with being able to see it on the field. Brian was a very fair coach and very hard on his QBs. Very focused on the offensive side of the ball. Total meritocracy - if you could get it done and didn't blow your assignments, you played. His program (at least in the late '90s) had no family atmosphere. We were all there to do a job. Everybody was cool with it and it obviously worked, but I don't ever remember being asked how my family was doing, participating in team movie nights, etc. I know a couple guys from GVSU who played/play in the league and they said Brian's approach was very similar to what they experienced: you've got a job to do and if you can't, he'll find someone who can. No hard feelings, just business.
He's very smart and very confident, bordering on arrogant. As we've all seen, he has an explosive temper, particularly with his QBs. His offensive knowledge is first rate. I shook my head when there was talk of him interviewing with the Eagles. No franchise QB is going to take the type of verbal abuse he heaves at them.
September 26th, 2016 at 1:33 PM ^
Great content, thanks.
Most coaches seem to have a side of the ball that is their expertise. It seems the total dependence on another coach for the side they don't favor does so many coaches in. Even Harbaugh had to rely on DJ to his detriment once personnel losses happened and clever OCs started scheming around him.
Rich Rod? Hoke? The "off hand" coordinator may be the most important coaching hire of all.
September 26th, 2016 at 1:21 PM ^
Hmm, well what's NDs biggest win yet under Kelly? They beat LSU in the Motor City bowl after losing 4 in a row in 2014. They've beaten Miami (ytm) and Rutgers in bowl games, but weren't even remotely cometitive against Alabama or Ohio State. Actually they're 3-3 in bowl games under Kelly. They're 2-4 against Stanford, squeezing out close wins at home twice. They're a slightly above average FBS team. 56-26 (?) record since he took the job.
September 26th, 2016 at 1:32 PM ^
in Norman in 2012
September 26th, 2016 at 1:44 PM ^
In 6 1/3 years under Kelly, ND has beaten only five teams that finished the year ranked: 2011 MSU (finished 11th), 2012 Michigan (24th), 2012 Stanford (7th), 2012 Oklahoma (15th), and 2013 Arizona St. (21st).
Three of those five were in the miracle season of 2012 that ended with a slaughter at the hands of Alabama. 2012 Stanford is the only top-ten team they've beaten. And they haven't beaten a top-25 team since October 2013.
September 26th, 2016 at 3:05 PM ^
They beat the 2013 Big Ten Champions Michigan State. Surprised that hasn't been brought up.
September 26th, 2016 at 1:27 PM ^
Hiring on the defensive side of the ball. Losing Bob Diaco seemed to be a bigger issue than I think anyone could imagine. Last year they were a top 5 team IMO that had injuires galore and still was right there in the playoff race down to the end. The drop off this year losing a lot of guys to the NFL combined with awful coaching has set them back. Next year will be a make or break year. Itll be interesting to see who they hire on defense. Dave Miranda from LSU has to be near the top of the list.
September 26th, 2016 at 1:43 PM ^
September 26th, 2016 at 1:28 PM ^
Obligatory: Fuck Notre Dame.
Cannot wait to play them again and demolish them, regardless of who their coach is and how overrated he his.
September 26th, 2016 at 1:39 PM ^
Well that depends. If some folks are talking about him being a top-5 or a top-10 coach, I'd say no he isn't. He's only eclipsed the 10-win mark twice in seven years, and unless they win out, they're not going to do it this year, either.
That doesn't mean he isn't a good coach. They were very close to making the playoff last year with a roster decimated by injuries, so the potential is there. He just hasn't delivered what he should be delivering if he's considered a top-10 coach. In that regard I'd say he's overrated.
But he isn't a bad coach.
September 26th, 2016 at 2:28 PM ^
Yes he is overrated. He has displayed some of the same issues as our friend Mr Rodriguez has since his shining days in West Virginia.
Kelly can't coach the Defense and isn't a great all around coach. While he can recruit to nd and has shown he can win at Cinci and GVSU, I don't see him being any more successful at another elite program. His teams tend to fold at times during big games (and certainly in 'lesser games') and while he can complain about the academics and other BS, he's a lifetime 2-4 loss/season sort of guy.
In a non-P5 Conf, he'd be legendary but if he gets the boot at ND, where would he go with better resources and have better success, if not stepping back to coach at a lesser program to regain some of that success?
September 26th, 2016 at 2:12 PM ^
When he was at Grand Valley it seemed like he could get kids to play D2 instead of going D1 that would be on the fringe of getting playing time as an upper classman. Could do the same at CMU and Cinci. At ND, there are no fringe players to go after, no upper level recruits to get to play 'down' at your school. Add to that admission standards and you've got to rely on better coaching. This job may have just exposed Kelly on that. He can't get the better players to play for his team to make their teams better. If you can't do that, coaching comes in to play. So yes, he probably is overrated as a coach.
September 26th, 2016 at 3:14 PM ^
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September 27th, 2016 at 10:23 AM ^
And these days, having played for Notre Dame has less and less cache. It's not like the '70s or 80s.
Notre Dame means no more than at least a dozen other schools including us.
September 27th, 2016 at 11:44 AM ^
Sugar Bowl berth. I apologize to the University of Cincinnati for the shame I've brought upon it. And not just for that grammar mistake.
September 26th, 2016 at 3:17 PM ^
September 27th, 2016 at 10:24 AM ^
They do look very tight all the time. Notre Dame is a very mechanical team. There is no "art", no feeling for the game with Brian Kelly teams.
September 26th, 2016 at 4:35 PM ^
they were fine under Diaco -- sure, they lost some clunkers against Navy, where they got torn apart by triple option. But they eventually figured it out and Navy was not in question anymore. They put together some good defenses to complement Kelly's offense.
Under VanGorder, though, they can't figure anybody out defensively and it's turning into an RR situation.
September 26th, 2016 at 7:53 PM ^
Kelly signed a 6 year contract extension earlier this year, so he will be at ND for a while.
September 26th, 2016 at 8:02 PM ^
Good for us, bad for ND
September 26th, 2016 at 10:04 PM ^
Has gotta be one of the dumbest athletics departments around. You lose a core group of players and then sign the coach to a 6 year extension, without waiting a little bit to see if there's a drop off? The only way this even remotely makes sense is if Kelly really had NFL offers, but I guess we'll never know. They're stuck with him for at least this year and next year.
Been popping the popcorn at the ND sites. I think the main issue they have with Kelly is the realization that he's not Meyer or Harbaugh. A good coach, probably the best they've had since Holtz, but not at the Meyer / Harbaugh level. It really eats them up inside, fun to read.
September 27th, 2016 at 12:38 AM ^
Here is the real question... Is Notre Dame still at Top 10 program? Some would argue that both Coach Kelly and the Notre Dame program are overrated, and therefore, perfect for each other.
The 2nd part of the question... Will a top 10 coach come to ND?
September 27th, 2016 at 10:26 AM ^
No and No.
Seriously.
September 27th, 2016 at 10:36 AM ^
I don't know. Where is he "rated"?
Brian Kelly is a very good football coach.
He had Grand Valley State as the best in Div II by a mile, setting records for points and wins and seemingly everything in between. Then he turned CMU from dirt into a MAC power overnight. Then he turned Cincinnati from middling to Big East champ and annual BCS participant immediately. Then he took Notre Dame from Charlie Weis to the National Championship.
Yes, ND is 1-3 this year. Maybe some of his magic is fading - I don't know what the problem is. But he's won big everywhere he's been for 25 years. Find me another coach with a resume like that. There aren't many. He's a very good coach.
Rate him accordingly.
September 27th, 2016 at 10:39 AM ^
He has had a lot of success at each stop of his career, including ND. Having a tough start to this season doesn't make him over rated all of a sudden. I can't stand the guy, but have to be honest and say he's a very good coach.