OT: 2020 Baseball Hall of Fame class. Who makes your ballot?
The Baseball Hall of Fame is going to announce it's 2020 class in a couple weeks, and the eligible players are below. Derek Jeter is a lock, while Larry Walker is looking increasingly likely to join him. Projected to be right around the 75% cutoff is human cancer Curt Schilling and suspected PED users Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens.
Who makes your ballot?
January 7th, 2020 at 9:42 AM ^
Harold Baines. Ridiculous
January 7th, 2020 at 9:42 AM ^
1. Michigan alum J.J. Putz is on the ballot.
2. The steroid non-sense has really screwed things up. There are at least seven Hall of Famers on the ballot that I'd vote for, and could probably even go as high as 10.
3. I know the Hall now chooses what hat a player wears on their plaque, but if Sammy Sosa makes it, does he get to pick what race he goes into the Hall as?
January 7th, 2020 at 10:25 AM ^
J.J. Putz is a funny name.
January 7th, 2020 at 9:44 AM ^
Schilling should be a lock.
Bonds, Clemens and Sosa should all get in. With the rampant cheating in all sports being condoned now, those three should get in.
January 7th, 2020 at 11:08 AM ^
Agreed. MLB has a long history of hypocrisy. Nice to see an absence of "sanctity of the game" posts in this thread .....
OP: Why don't you tell us how you feel about Schilling?
January 7th, 2020 at 12:54 PM ^
He'd probably get my vote. It's still doesn't negate that he's a flaming trash pile as a person.
January 7th, 2020 at 9:44 AM ^
How many do they get to vote for?
January 7th, 2020 at 9:46 AM ^
Jeter, Bonds, Clemens, Schilling.
Bonds was a HOF’er before he ever went to SF. Not many pitchers better than Clemens and Schilling.
McGwire and Sosa should be in without any push back. Those two saved baseball. That piece of garbage Bud Selig brought this all on with the approval of the owners.
January 7th, 2020 at 9:52 AM ^
Bonds, Clemens, Helton, Walker, Jeter, Ramirez, and Sosa
January 7th, 2020 at 9:52 AM ^
What's the issue with Schilling? I remember becoming real invested in baseball around the 1998 home run chase, and followed by the amazing 2001 World Series really got me hooked for about the next decade of being a big baseball fan. Schilling was a vital part of two championship teams; last I remember he had a failed video game company and had cancer. I don't remember many off the field issues during his time, so what's the push back on him?
January 7th, 2020 at 9:54 AM ^
He's an asshole.
January 7th, 2020 at 9:57 AM ^
So were probably half the guys already in the HOF.
January 7th, 2020 at 10:26 AM ^
He’s a racist, sexist, homophobic asshole who frequently expresses his views in the open without any reservations.
January 7th, 2020 at 10:48 AM ^
There's a special room for assholes as big as Schilling.
Besides, without looking at his career stats, my eye test says that he's a marginal candidate.
January 7th, 2020 at 12:04 PM ^
Career stats:
216 wins 146 losses
3.46 ERA
3116 strike outs
83 complete games
20 shut outs
0 Cy Young awards.
won 20+ games 2x
Schilling had some darn good post seasons but I gotta think 216 regular season wins would be one of the lowest amounts for a starting pitcher in the HOF.
January 7th, 2020 at 2:35 PM ^
By old counting stats Schilling is a marginal candidate. By the new analytics Schilling should be an absolute lock, better than several first ballot HOFers.
January 7th, 2020 at 11:33 AM ^
Aside from being a complete clown as a human being, he also cheated the state of Rhode Island out of millions of dollars with his crappy video game company.
January 7th, 2020 at 9:54 AM ^
Lou whitaker
January 7th, 2020 at 9:55 AM ^
This.
The entire 1984 Tigers team
January 7th, 2020 at 6:05 PM ^
Someone locate Rusty Kuntz
January 7th, 2020 at 4:35 PM ^
If Trammell is in, Lou should be in. Comparable, if not slightly better hitting numbers, and Lou was a superior defender--with one of the best arms ever for a second baseman.
January 7th, 2020 at 9:54 AM ^
Jeter, Clemens, Schilling, Walker and Bonds
I don't care about whether they're an asshole or not and I don't care about 'roids. I'm voting for guys who are worthy simply because of play on the field. Back in the 90s, everyone was using 'roids anyways. Also, Bonds was having a Hall of Fame career before the 'roids
It's like Lance Armstrong. BS they took his Tour titles. Everyone was doping. All they guys he beat were also doping and he still won 7 straight. He was the best on the planet. Period.
January 7th, 2020 at 4:08 PM ^
I think they handled it fine. No one is credited with winning the Tour those years. If they had given it to someone else you could call it an injustice. But they recognized the situation and just vacated them.
Doping doesn't affect everyone equally. Some see more of a benefit than others. Armstrong certainly did. Pre-doping, he didn't show any kind of yellow jersey potential, and then suddenly he became superman.
January 7th, 2020 at 9:56 AM ^
Well, obviously Carlos Pena and Papa Grande.
January 7th, 2020 at 10:16 AM ^
besides Jeter the only guys who should get in are: Walker, Omar, Konerko, Helton, Wagner, Dunn (for the simple fact that he was a beer league slo-pitch player), and i would say Andruw more or less base on his defense in CF for the Braves. He did put up great numbers during his time there but he might have been the most frustrating player during the Braves run of the 90's and early 2000's...
All of the PED guys should be in no matter what.
January 7th, 2020 at 10:38 AM ^
As long as Pedro Cerrano is excluded from the HOF because of his religious beliefs, the whole institution is a goddamned sham as far as I’m concerned.
January 7th, 2020 at 10:42 AM ^
The Baseball Hall of Fame is actually an obsession of mine. I read books about it and I gobble up every article out there that makes a case for or against a guy. If you want to argue that Eric Chavez deserves to get in I will hear you out. I love that stuff.
Jeter, Helton, Kent, Rolen, Schilling and Walker would get my vote this year.
My case against the cheaters is this. They've already reaped every possible award for cheating. They've won awards, they've won championships, they've set records, they've been paid money. There are actually clean players who won't get in the HOF because they didn't win those awards or championships and their legacy was damaged because they weren't as good as the cheaters. Fred Mcgriff comes to mind. At every turn Clemens and Bonds and their ilk got nothing but benefit from cheating at the expense of guys who didn't cheat. Is it so unreasonable that there be one consequence for cheating?
I know, I know. It's not fair that some guilty guys will still get in and almost certainly already have. Should we no longer punish people for speeding or for theft or for murder because some people will get away with it?
January 7th, 2020 at 10:54 AM ^
Interesting take, and can't really disagree.
I wonder what Andruw Jones' career would've looked like post-Atlanta if he were juicing. His career in Atlanta was just marvelous, but took a nosedive after. And McGriff was one of the classiest guys out there who was still a great player.
January 7th, 2020 at 11:46 AM ^
Andruw's problem in Atlanta was that he didn't know what to be... did he want to be a power hitter or did he want to be a speed guy and one of the best defensive CF's in the history of baseball... plus he had an issue with being lazy at times...
January 7th, 2020 at 12:52 PM ^
Same here. I love doing the blind numbers comparison of player A vs. player B.
When you do it that way, there are some guys like Bobby Abreau who make much stronger cases than you'd expect. Maybe not the peak players, but extended near-excellence.
Also, Jorge Posada should have gotten an extended look. 15 years of actually playing catcher (no DH/1B moves), and being one of the top 5 catchers in the game for nearly the extent of it, while playing at a position that's incredibly underrepresented in the HoF. Not saying he should be in. But he should have been at least at 50%. Don't at me.
January 7th, 2020 at 3:32 PM ^
Schilling's numbers are borderline HOF and I am good with his terrible personality keeping him on the outside of the fence.
January 7th, 2020 at 4:14 PM ^
Agree - I don't think a proven cheat should be rewarded.
And if a guy was a total asshole to the media and they punish him by not voting for him, I think that's fair. Part of the job of a professional athlete is to interact with the public.
January 7th, 2020 at 6:52 PM ^
I agree with your post - and your 6 guys basically mirrors who I would vote for. I would exclude Todd Helton, but otherwise I'd have the exact same list.
Kent and Rolen are under-appreciated. Kent was a jerk, but he was a crazy offensive force as a 2nd baseman.
January 9th, 2020 at 12:12 AM ^
Roger Maris
January 7th, 2020 at 10:43 AM ^
Ill take a full ballot.
Bonds
Clemens
Jeter
Schilling
Mcgwire
Manny
Pettitte
Jeff Kent
Walker
Sheffield
And i think if the limit were gone theres an argument for helton, wagner, rolen, andruw jones and a few others that deserve a good conversation that i think fall short.
January 7th, 2020 at 10:46 AM ^
Strangely, when I saw Jason Giambi’s name, the first though I had is “Isn’t he dead?”
Then I realized I was thinking of Ken Caminiti.
January 7th, 2020 at 11:17 AM ^
I'd vote for Pee-wee's genie "Jambi" before I'd ever vote for Giambi.
January 7th, 2020 at 10:50 AM ^
My ballot would be:
Todd Helton
Larry Walker
Derek Jeter
Curt Shilling
Omar Vizquel
*If write ins were allowed I would have Lou Whitaker on my ballot too.
January 7th, 2020 at 10:58 AM ^
Jeter is a unanimous first ballot lock. Clemens and Schilling should go as well, and Bonds is likely in that category as well.
All depends on how the voters take the roids and off-field shit into account.
January 7th, 2020 at 1:00 PM ^
He won't get in unanimously. I think someone will withhold their vote for some stupid reason. Probably because he kind of held the team hostage at the end of his career.
I'm not saying he shouldn't. But realistically, there should be 50 unanimous players in already. Seriously, who voted against Mays, Ruth, Williams, Clemente, Ryan, Brett, Griffey, Ripken, Aaron, Gywnn, Maddux, Rickey, Musiel, Pedro, Mantle, Koufax, etc?
Joe DiMaggio only got 88%, which should show you how stupidly political these voters can be.
January 7th, 2020 at 2:03 PM ^
True. Guess I forgot that Rivera was the first and only unanimous vote to the HoF, and that just happened last year. Kind of mind-boggling when you think about all the superstars this sport has had over the years, and even ones who were non-polarizing figures like Derek Jeter. I don't think there was ever even a sniff of controversy about him during his entire professional career.
Either way, he is a bona fide consensus first ballot Hall of Famer.
January 7th, 2020 at 11:02 AM ^
I have given up caring about PEDs at this point, so I'd vote for Bonds, Clemens, Andrew Jones, Jeter, Manny Ramirez, Larry Walker, Scott Rolen, and Billy Wagner, Sammy Sosa.
January 7th, 2020 at 11:56 AM ^
There's enough guys here for a full ballot.
Jeter
Bonds
Clemens
Jones
Walker
Wagner
Sheffield
Pettitte
Helton
Sosa
January 7th, 2020 at 12:55 PM ^
Larry Walker deserves to be in
January 7th, 2020 at 12:58 PM ^
If you'll notice at the bottom of the ballot it says "The BBHOF Tracker Team". Some voters submit their ballot to the tracker so that the public can see beforehand how each player is doing in terms of votes. If I recall, about 60% of ballots get submitted to the trackers early. At this point 33% of the ballots have been submitted and Jeter has 100%, Larry Walker has 84.6%, Schilling has 80.1%, Bonds has 75.7% and Clemens is just short with 74.3%. The voters who submit their ballots to the tracker tend to be a little more generous with their votes and more open to voting for the drug cheaters. So most guys' actual % tends to be about 3-10% less than their tracker %. At this point I would say with 80% confidence that the class will be Jeter, Walker and Schilling. It seems inevitable now that Bonds and Clemens will get in but it doesn't look like this is the year.
January 7th, 2020 at 1:06 PM ^
Exactly. I forget the official name for it, but it's the built in discrepancy between people willing to voice their opinion before a vote/election and the actual results. People with perceived unpopular opinions tend to hide or under report their actual voting tendencies. See Brexit and our last election.
In terms of the HoF, you really need to be between 83-85% in the early reporting to get that 75% in the final results.
January 7th, 2020 at 1:09 PM ^
If I recall, the PED users tend to need 83-85%. The gap for non-juicers is much smaller. Walker should be golden at 84%. Schilling, both because he's only at 80% and because he's a controversial figure is in much more limbo.
January 7th, 2020 at 1:06 PM ^
Here is a link to the tracker if you want to look at it.
January 7th, 2020 at 1:06 PM ^
Here is a link to the tracker if you want to look at it.
January 7th, 2020 at 2:02 PM ^
Curt Schilling