OT: 2018 MLB HOF class
January 24th, 2018 at 11:33 PM ^
but we really only know that in retrospect (after the explosion of baseball analytics).
For his time - saves were a highly valued counting statistic and Hoffman was very good at generating saves for a very long period of time. As such, I agree with your opinion. Hoffman deserves his HOF invite.
The interesting question is this --- after Rivera gets in, who will be the NEXT relief pitcher to make the Hall of Fame?
The relief pitchers of this generation and future generations will get judged in this new analytical world. As such, I think it will have to be a multi-inning relief pitcher who consistently puts up 100+ IP per year to get noticed. However - there hasn't been a single pitcher who's pitched more than 100 relief innings since 2006 (Scott Proctor with NYY).
It's not inconceivable that Rivera will be the last relief pitcher inducted for quite some time.
January 25th, 2018 at 11:04 AM ^
First I believe arguing/debating over the internet embolden's folks into believing thier opinion is gospel. Second I am willing to admitt and openly accept analytics, while also understanding watching the game with my own two eyes has benefits as well. There must be a mix of the two: analytics and game 'watching' with gut decisions.
Sabermatricians like to sprinkle their analytics like it is magical fairy dust. I have friends who are very good with stats who are thinking of careers in sports analytics that do not watch the game or really know how it is played. If closers, saves and holds were not important to 'the game' they would not pay players to do it. Call the titles of stats what you want. Call what you want arbitrary or important. Watch the game and use common sense along with analytics and predictives. Be fair to the game and to the players and coaches who play and coach!
Debate worthiness based on the climate and culture of when those players played the game. I realize it is very difficult when typing a few paragraphs to make a complete argument. For me making a complete argument means using both sides of the coin. I am passionate about baseball. I believe baseball will be better with analytics. However, I see a growing trend of folks that are relying too much on them and not using common sense to see the actual effectiveness of a player.
I would enjoy sitting in a comfortable setting with some of you sabermatricians and drinking some barley pops discussing this topic. Whether that happens or not blessings to you my Mgobretheren and sisteren!
Go Blue beat the boilers!
January 24th, 2018 at 9:16 PM ^
January 25th, 2018 at 7:19 AM ^
January 25th, 2018 at 2:04 PM ^
Great relief pitchers are now almost as valuable as great starters. They absolutely have a place in the Hall.
January 24th, 2018 at 7:39 PM ^
January 24th, 2018 at 7:45 PM ^
January 24th, 2018 at 7:48 PM ^
Ty Cobb was an angel
this should have nothing to do with it
January 24th, 2018 at 8:17 PM ^
January 24th, 2018 at 9:27 PM ^
January 24th, 2018 at 11:04 PM ^
January 25th, 2018 at 2:10 PM ^
Yes! I remember recommending Leershen's book about Cobb on this board a year ago. Cobb was absolutely a hard man and he played hard, but much of the mythology around him was the pure invention of a piece of shit "journalist" named Al Stump, who libeled Cobb's whole life so that he could sell books after Cobb died. Even the accusations that Cobb was a racist were garbage. In fact Cobb had a valet while he was living in Detroit who was a black man--he ended up running some of Cobb's businesses down in Georgia for the rest of his life.
January 24th, 2018 at 8:29 PM ^
January 24th, 2018 at 9:33 PM ^
I hear Joe DiMaggio was a bit stand-offish with the press and they kept him from being a first ballot hall of famer. Joe DiMaggio!
January 24th, 2018 at 8:55 PM ^
Barry had a Hall of Fame type career before he decided to take steroids as well which is what makes it even more worse that he even took them.
January 25th, 2018 at 12:02 AM ^
but the problem is when did he start cheating? No one rally knows. He was stupid and arrogant and got away with cheating to make a potentailly grat HOF career a marred one. For that reason, he needs to sweat it out a little.
I am a Detroit kid and I don't understand Tram getting even under the new rules. Very good player. He wa arugably the best player on one of the best teams of his era, but he wasn't the best (or top 3) shortsop of his time and no one thought he was, at the time. Not even Tigers' fans can make the case very well. Good numbers but he didn't sustain them long enough due to injury or whatever. Better numbers than Ozzie Smith everyone knows that Ozzie was a VERY popular player in his day and was much better defensively than trammel. Hell he could do flips? I remember him on TWIB.
Don't give me Lou Whitaker either. Very good player? HOF numbers? Not even close.
January 24th, 2018 at 7:48 PM ^
January 24th, 2018 at 8:15 PM ^
No reason why Edgar isn't in. He'll get in next year but makes no sense that he'll take 10 years while Ortiz might get in 1st ballot (link).
Alos glad to see Moose's number jump. Hopefully he gets in next year.
January 24th, 2018 at 8:29 PM ^
January 24th, 2018 at 10:03 PM ^
Yeah, Martinez was the best DH in the history of the game, and it's insane that it will take a decade for him to be recognized.
Ortiz, by comparison, has some steroid talk surrounding him and should, at the bare minimum, get the 1-year purgatory as a result.
January 24th, 2018 at 8:26 PM ^
January 24th, 2018 at 8:53 PM ^
I like the guys who got in but MLB HOF voting is a total joke.
Always loved Vlad's game from afar. A really great player and one of the most fun to watch.
January 24th, 2018 at 9:16 PM ^
January 25th, 2018 at 5:40 AM ^
I always like Chipper too but he is always and forever LARRY...LARRY... And I say that respectfully.
January 24th, 2018 at 9:29 PM ^
I know my logic is off however, she needs to be held accountable for her actions as well.
January 24th, 2018 at 9:57 PM ^
Jones and Thome felt like locks, and while it's dumb he had to wait a year good to see Vlad get in. I really don't know how the HOF handles closers, but Hoffman had the numbers and was really good at his peak. So that all makes sense.
It is weird that the HOF cares about steroids with Bonds and Clemens but don't seem to look too deeply at anyone else. I'm not saying any of the guys they let in this year were juicing, but it's pretty unlikely that all of them were 100% clean their whole careers. And while Clemens arguably was going to be a Hall-of-very-good pitcher before he started cheating, Bonds was a 3-time MVP and all-star for years before he started juicing; he's probably in if he didn't touch the stuff. So this steady uptick in their vote totals seems so manufactured and forced. Either they are in or not, and nothing the former players do going forward will have an effect on that.
January 24th, 2018 at 10:08 PM ^
January 24th, 2018 at 10:53 PM ^
January 24th, 2018 at 11:12 PM ^
January 24th, 2018 at 10:17 PM ^
If Thome got in, why in the heck is Edgar Martinez not in yet?
January 25th, 2018 at 12:11 AM ^
January 24th, 2018 at 10:18 PM ^
Rose bet on his team, now the nba wants part of the action.
January 24th, 2018 at 11:09 PM ^
January 24th, 2018 at 11:29 PM ^
January 25th, 2018 at 12:15 AM ^
Thome, one of the two greatest power hitters of that era (with Griffey) who didn't need roids.
January 25th, 2018 at 5:46 AM ^
Perhaps they were clean, but there were likely a lot of players that didn't get caught. You didn't have to blow up physically to be on them (Palmeiro and Petit).
January 25th, 2018 at 4:11 PM ^
January 25th, 2018 at 9:57 AM ^
He looked almost like an akward robot designed to hit homers and gun down people from the outfield. I also have a softspot for players that don't wear gloves, and I am an Angels fan. One of my favorite players of all time.
2) I simply do not care who took which steroids for how long. Bonds, Clemens, and the rest should all be in.
January 25th, 2018 at 4:10 PM ^
January 25th, 2018 at 4:17 PM ^