MSU players fought the law and the law partly won
Sparty tunnel fighters get at most a misdemeanor. Do you find their punishment deserving or not deserving enough?
January 27th, 2023 at 5:16 PM ^
I’m going to guess that the one lawyer that is quoted is being less than candid, or perhaps is being misquoted.
What is almost certainly happening is what’s called HYTA, Holmes youthful trainee act. They actually do tender a plea, the court takes it under advisement and keeps it as a nonpublic record. They keep their nose clean usually for around six months or a year than the case goes away.
January 27th, 2023 at 5:30 PM ^
He seems pretty clear that it is not a HYTA plea though. And if it is HYTA and he is lying, I doubt that offer would still be there tomorrow.
January 27th, 2023 at 6:03 PM ^
Nothing about that statement would get that offer pulled. And that’s assuming it’s not a misquote or a lawyer taking ‘license’ with the facts.
January 27th, 2023 at 6:38 PM ^
Is this the same Sparty lawyer who partly blamed Juwan Howard?
I am not counting on anything he says.
January 28th, 2023 at 5:21 AM ^
If a lawyer came out and blatantly misstated an agreement a client had reached with the prosecutor or the court, there is clearly a chance they would pull the offer.
January 28th, 2023 at 7:53 AM ^
MCR 2.507(g) commemorates deals reached that are either in writing (an email would suffice) or put on the record. you and i are doing the best to read the tea leaves here, and i have the strong suspicion that there is a writing or record behind this, indeed it looks like an agreement was reached in court. thus, a lawyer popping off after court doesn't undo what's already been agreed to.
you do bring up an interesting point though, that is talking with the press. as a prosecutor i had an aversion to it because it was like that old quote attributed to vince lombardi about passing the football: 3 things can happen and 2 of them are bad. prosecutor's can get in ethical trouble and/or set themselves up for a change of venue motion if they talk too much. over time i would develop trust with some of the news people and i could be more candid with them and trust them to not burn me in the paper, but otherwise i would give pretty bland comments about a case. that dynamic generally holds true now that i'm in private practice, though admittedly the press is much less frequently interested in anything that i do now.
January 28th, 2023 at 8:52 AM ^
If his statement is accurate, it doesn’t really look like there was anything on the record. Perhaps I misread the circumstances, or perhaps the quote isn’t accurate. I know this stuff but not as well as you, so I will concede.
Have a good weekend, XM.
January 27th, 2023 at 6:23 PM ^
Given the language in the article, it most certainly is the HYTA.
"Participants work with a case manager to create and successfully complete a plan for accountability. Upon completion of that plan, charges are dismissed," said Victoria Burton-Harris, chief assistant prosecutor in Washtenaw County.
Of course, Sparty lawyer wants to make it sound like they are innocent (different from "not guilty" of course) and bettering society, all of their own volition:
"It's going to happen outside of court," said Max Manoogian, an attorney for Angelo Grose. "There is going to be no criminal responsibility whatsoever. There are no admissions being made, no pleas being tendered."
"They're going to do some good work in the community, do a little bit of philanthropic work, jump through a couple of hoops and the prosecutor's going to dismiss the case on their own," he said.
January 27th, 2023 at 7:58 PM ^
While I think that you and XM are correct, and no judge should take it out on the clients--who have agreed to the conditions formally--the lawyer SHOULD get slapped by the judge for such a statement. Or the bar should slap him. Someone should slap him. Because walking out of the courtroom and insisting nothing happened is not the way it's all supposed to work. And let's think about whether some poor kids who engage in that kind of crap in an alley--no such bargaining is going to be available to them.
January 28th, 2023 at 2:48 PM ^
HYTA absolutely does not happen outside of court, and they absolutely do admit responsibility. So either it isn’t HYTA or Sparty lawyer is telling some whoppers. Probably choice 2.
January 27th, 2023 at 6:30 PM ^
If you read the underlying MLive article, it seems reasonably clear that this isn't HYTA:
"The pre-plea diversionary program was established by the Washtenaw County Prosecutor’s Office in 2021 for individuals charged with certain misdemeanors. The four players will work with the probation office but won’t be on probation."
Edit: I suppose HYTA could be part of that plan, but HYTA is not the only diversion option. So better to say that I just don't think it's HYTA.
Also: I know that defense lawyers gonna defense lawyer, but if I were those kids I'd tell mine to STFU. Putting it on blast that your client isn't guilty of anything isn't going to win your client any friends in the system, especially if they screw up their diversion. There is video, idiots.
January 27th, 2023 at 5:22 PM ^
I think windmon deserved more for aiding crump in his helmet swinging assault by holding our player down while also putting his helmet on and throwing haymakers.
January 27th, 2023 at 5:22 PM ^
I believe this is a fairly standard response to this type of crime but I am no ones expert
January 27th, 2023 at 7:49 PM ^
Ignore the lawyer BS innocence spin. If the charged participants complete the agreement terms of their court-mandated service, their records will be erased. If they fail to complete the terms they will likely be further sentenced, resulting in misdemeanor criminal records. All of this is standard and appropriate for the circumstances.
January 27th, 2023 at 5:40 PM ^
Way way too light. The lot of them should have been kicked off the team and Mr Helmetswinger needs to see a good deal of jail time. Every last one of them knew what they did was wrong and did it anyway. They're not 6 where they don't know any better. There should be no coddling.
January 27th, 2023 at 5:46 PM ^
This really isn’t coddling. If they have clean records this is pretty standard issue.
January 27th, 2023 at 7:25 PM ^
These are not mutually exclusive.
January 27th, 2023 at 8:34 PM ^
Maybe there's a problem with it being "pretty standard issue"
January 28th, 2023 at 5:24 AM ^
I thought the consensus had become that our justice system was over prosecuting?
January 28th, 2023 at 10:53 AM ^
That is the current consensus - among those who aren’t victims (or, apparently, fans of a football team on which the victims play). Also known as a luxury belief.
January 28th, 2023 at 2:51 PM ^
Ok thanks. I have trouble keeping up with the consensus-es.
January 27th, 2023 at 5:42 PM ^
I was jumped by four guys when I was highschool. but when I went to the police pretty much nothing happened to them. I was 18 and they were 23 to 25.
FWIW--these guys were golden gloves boxers and I did pretty well against two of them, but when the others jumped in I basically had to cover and then eventually run.
January 27th, 2023 at 5:47 PM ^
Fascinating
May I ask what are your boxing or fighting credentials?
January 27th, 2023 at 6:25 PM ^
He don't talk about fight club (except when he does)
January 27th, 2023 at 6:08 PM ^
I was beating Jean-Claude's ass one day, but then Chuck Norris jumped in, and it was pretty much game over for me.
January 27th, 2023 at 7:29 PM ^
I hate it when that happens.
January 27th, 2023 at 7:15 PM ^
Hey George santos, interesting story! Did you beat up the 4 pro boxers while you were working at Goldman Sachs or dressing up in Brazil?
January 27th, 2023 at 10:26 PM ^
1001... 1002… 1003…
Oh hey mgobloggers, I totally didn’t see you there. I don’t know if you heard me counting; I did over a thousand
January 27th, 2023 at 11:22 PM ^
What an absolute unit.
January 28th, 2023 at 12:47 PM ^
What inspired you to post this anecdotal and subjective account unrelated to the topic at hand?
January 27th, 2023 at 5:46 PM ^
I don’t think it’s that type of party, op. I’m pretty sure it’s a standard diversionary program.
January 27th, 2023 at 5:48 PM ^
Isn't this the tip of the iceberg? Aren't, at least, the Greenes filing a civil suit?
January 27th, 2023 at 5:51 PM ^
The best thing that can happen is that Michigan completely pummels Sparty in Lansing next year, plants the Michigan flag at the 50 yard line, and drives sparty fans to burn the city down in utter disgust of getting their teeth kicked in.
January 27th, 2023 at 5:57 PM ^
The best thing that can happen is our players don’t get attacked next time.
Fuck the “rivalry”.
January 27th, 2023 at 6:11 PM ^
It won't happen because next time the losers from Lansing come to A2, they will enter and exit like this:
January 27th, 2023 at 6:54 PM ^
Does that banner read "Tuck's comin' on Harbaugh"?
Interesting fetish to include your hated rival in that type of activity...
January 27th, 2023 at 7:28 PM ^
That's hilarious. Before you pointed out the banner, I thought this was an image from years ago that keeps getting dug up.
Nope, just keeps happening.
January 27th, 2023 at 7:39 PM ^
When the Wolverines blank Sparty, it will read "Tuck aShootin' Blanks"
January 27th, 2023 at 5:56 PM ^
Real question and without reading the article, just reading the OP.
If this happened outside of a bar in Ann Arbor but they were not football players just drunk students, would they get the same punishment? (Change helmet to, whatever you see fit)
If the answer is yes, then I'm OK
January 27th, 2023 at 8:05 PM ^
m-a-y-b-e. far from certain, but depending on lots of variables, it's not beyond the realm of reasonable outcomes.
January 27th, 2023 at 5:59 PM ^
I’m not really comfortable with the idea of deserving and punishment. What’s being done to ensure it won’t happen again?
Absolutely nothing. We’re playing them again, and next time it’ll be their turf.
January 27th, 2023 at 6:54 PM ^
We need to stop playing them until they can act like grown ups.
Someone from Michigan is going to be permanently disabled or killed they way staee has been escalating this over the years.
January 27th, 2023 at 6:00 PM ^
*steps on soap box*
The whole "fracas" and "fight" media description needs to go away. Eight people on one team got charged with some sort of crime, none on the other.
What does someone need to do for it to be called an attack? A hospitalization? Permanent Injury? Insinuating anything short of a completely one sided assault places some blame at the victims feet, which I was pretty sure we were passed doing a while ago.
*steps off soap box*
January 28th, 2023 at 8:34 AM ^
Very much media bias - even on an individual level. For example, I listen to 950am news radio out of Detroit now and then while driving; their morning sports person calls this a "fight" while their afternoon sports person calls it an "assault".
January 27th, 2023 at 6:16 PM ^
Legal issues aside, Crump still being on the team is absolutely disgusting.
January 27th, 2023 at 6:23 PM ^
I think they should forfeit any NIL money to help pay for the UM tunnel changes.
January 27th, 2023 at 7:41 PM ^
So what you're saying is they should have to pay the hour it took to remove 45 temporary seats. The tunnel itself is not getting touched.
January 27th, 2023 at 6:55 PM ^
I don’t understand why Crump is still on the team. Why?
The other guys being on the team is fine.
But Crump? Come on man!
January 27th, 2023 at 7:19 PM ^
Their season was going to suck anyways but having unstable people like him make it more likely the team will fall apart completely. Look what happened with the Pacers when they let Ron Artest act out every game without real punishment. He destroyed the best team they ever had. MSU should've used the incident to cut the dead weight and fire Tuck to save some money.