More bad details in Frank Clark case
Didn't see this posted, but there are some new revelations in the Frank Clark case (to my knowledge none of this was in Ace's piece or on the board, if I'm wrong, please zap the thread).
The hotel manager says Clark threatened her saying "I will hit you like I hit her" which jives nicely with the Seahawks' claim they'd never draft a player who hit a woman. Clark also lied to an officer claiming his girlfriend had been drinking, and that his father was a chief of police.
Also interesting, apparently "the day after the arrest" the Seahawks along with several other teams sent representatives to investigate the incident.
I've gotten to the point where the more character questions teams have on their roster the less I care about the team and the sport. I used to watch every Lions game, but they had that period where so many players got arrested or charged with things...I was just kind of done. I didn't even check the scores after a while and they never fully got me back. The NFL in general I have a lot of trouble with too.
Maybe because I'm older now, but I just find it harder to cheer for people or organizations I don't respect. I know that teams are going to do what they're going to do anyway because "where else are we gonna get our fix?" but I think if enough people withdraw from things they feel aren't ok then it'll be harder for organizations to leverage us against each other.
What's so frustrating is that the attitude of the league and the teams is that we can and will overlook it. All that negative PR and the league's ratings were not hurt one iota. Doubt the Ravens experienced a loss in fan support/revenue as well. They lie to not appear brazen and because there have yet to be financial consequences.
At some point, people are going to have to tune the league out if they want to make a difference. NFL owners are notoriously ruthless. They couldn't care less about public outrage that makes no direct impact on their wallets.
That's what they used to say about baseball, too...
This is what sucks. PED use is rampart across the sports world. You may not want to know how many of your favorite athletes are "hardened criminals." But the sports that actually try (somewhat) to put a stop to it get tarnished in the public eye - cycling especially, and now MLB.
The leagues that don't take testing seriously are rewarded for it. We don't think of the NBA as a league with a PED problem, for instance. That may have to do with the fact that all PED testing takes place during the regular season (not that they even use tough tests). During the playoffs? No testing whatsoever.
I would respect them more, no question, because then they wouldn't be injecting their moral opinion that he's ok to them into the conversation. The NFL as a whole has made a particularly bad habit of doing this especially under Goodell. Remember how Terelle Pryor was suspended in the NFL for a "crime" he committed in college (as funny as that is to me as a Michigan fan, that's pretty stupid objectively? For longer than Ray Rice was for clocking his fiance?
If Seattle had just said "We know Frank made an awful mistake for which he was punished by the law, and now we expect him to be a model citizen here in Seattle" there's no issue, IMO.
With the amount of clutter on the board these days how can you make the apparent suggestion this is not a worthy topic any longer?
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It's certainly on their radar. Maybe not as much as Michigan fans, but it is there.
If Seattle had drafted him in the fifth or sixth round, this wouldn't be getting attention. Drafting Clark in the second (a big reach based on mock drafts) has magnified the situation hugely.
not according to mock drafts, but a big reach because of him not being..you know, not that good at the game of football. Athletic? Very. Potential? Tons. Put it all together? Not a chance.
the prosecutor in the case, Lynne Gast-King, as stating that she doesn't believe that Clark struck his girlfriend.
None of that even matters. With white knight's these day's there is only one side of the story that matters. the side that they want to hear. They want to hear that Clark turned into a big green rage monster who bounced his girlfriend's near lifeless body around the room making young children cry in agony. It makes them feel good about their own not as loose morals.
On Thursday, The Times spoke with Lynne Gast-King, Sandusky, Ohio's municipal prosecutor, about the case. Gast-King explained how she came to the conclusion that Clark did not strike Hurt inside the Maui Sands hotel last November, and that's why the charges against him were reduced.
"From what I gathered, I do not believe he punched her, slapped her, anything like that," she told the paper. "Was there physical things going on between them? Yeah, there was.
"But I don't think he punched her."
http://www.mlive.com/wolverines/index.ssf/2015/05/report_prosecutor_doesnt_belie.html
based on what? We know there is evidence suggesting he did it; the prosecutor needs to step up with any exculpatory evidence. This looks more and more like someone trying to justify giving Clark a sweetheart deal--a deal she wouldn't have given to someone off the street.
Sounds like booting him was a good idea.
Do you honestly think, if his stance was 'I never hit her', he would say this to someone who could be deposed against him in case of a trial? I doubt that very much. And I'm sick of this fucking place being caught up in this. He's gone, he's been gone. Let it go. He's not a Michigan player anymore. You would think this was a Seahawks board the way you people concern yourself with something that doesn't concern you.
Fine, then this board shouldn't talk about ballghazi, Woodley's charity work, and a 2-point conversion from 25 years ago, as it is in the past.
I mean, there's also a post here about the utility of late conference calls.
You don't want to talk about it? Fine - don't. But this is a high-profile event concerning a former player, and if people want to discuss just how terribly it has been handled by Clark and the Seahawks, they certainly can without offending you.
are you referring to Michigan fans, boosters and alumni?
Please don't be like that.
You've been here long enough to know that if it concerns a Michigan player - past or present - it is by definition on-topic, boardworthy except if it happens to duplicate other content and probably will show up here regradless of your sensibilities on the subject's worthiness for discussion. This is a rather highly engaged portion of the fanbase quite concerned with the players for which it cheers, whether those players actions are laudable or - in the case of Clark - unfortunate, and there is nothing wrong with that.
tell us what you really think.
on subjects you're "sick of". And thanks for the lecture.
You're right, people never say incriminating things to other people who could possibly be deposed in case of a trial. That's why, as an attorney, I never do depositions. There are completely pointless since no one ever tells a potential deposees anything incriminating.
Did I mention I never won a case and my law practice went out of business?
I think Philly might hold that honor, my friend.
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As an Eagles fan born in Philly I'd love to hear your reasoning.
In other words, they are like every other base.
It's amazing to me how many times I see people single out a fanbase they don't like and, with a straight face, state that they are "by far the worst." There is very little difference between bases in terms of irrational bias and homerism.
Nobody said they are exactly alike. But in terms of confirmation bias (which is what that poster referenced), yeah -- the majority of each base share the same disease. Don't know how that can even be denied.
The swiftness of the Tressel embrace was very bad. But so was our decision to turn our back on our own basketball program for a great length of time. Opposite extremes.
To take an example that's ancient history, I knew the story of Gerald Ford and Willis Ward for probably three decades before I ever found out about the nefarious role played by Yost. I knew vaguely about Yost's racism but no details--the detailed story I knew was entirely from the other, more honorable, side.
I think there may be slightly more tolerance for academic funny stuff among the OSU fanbase (just a data-free suspicion from living in Ohio too long) but I'm not sure it extrapolates to tolerance for other forms of questionable behavior.
My point is that you can't really generalize the fanbases that way. It has been relatively quiet on the criminal justice front for Buckeyes really since the supposedly lawless Meyer took over, while Michigan has had a few situations. Two things:
1. Michigan handled the Clark issue very well (York too)*. Meyer was too heavy-handed with Carlos Hyde (and Brad Roby).
2. Michigan having more bad apples in the last few years says absolutely nothing about the quality of either school nor the respective football admissions processes.
As far as Tressel goes, I like to think that most Bucks fans realize that he was wrong and deserved to go, but were much more willing to forgive him after Urban pulled the program back up so quickly.
*I think the Gibbons/Lewan thing stinks to high heaven, but don't want to open that can of worms more than I just did.
There are overall differences but in terms of rose-colored glasses about itself and making any kind of logic reach that takes credit away from a rival, no, there is not much difference.
I saw a thread earlier today with tons of comments about how Dantonio wasn't that great of a coach. I'm sure on an MSU message board they have said similar things about Harbaugh. Both takes are absolutely ludicrous but that is what you get in a mass forum of sports fans. If you think Michigan (or anyone else) is somehow above this, please state your case.
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