More B1G expansion talks
It was reported yesterday that Oregon and Washington had applied to be part of the Big Ten yesterday. Seems like Big Ten is going to make the decision on future adds based on how talks with ND go (as in ND + 1 or ND +3 or no ND and B1G looks at more PAC 12 and ACC schools). ND makes a lot of sense in terms of geography and rivalries and would also add another huge alumni fan base and possibly more TV deals on NBC.
As a Washington Sate Cougar alum and fan, this shit really bums me out. WA State lawmakers are already moving on laws that would not allow state schools to be separated from the same conference. Which I hope happens, why is everyone OK with long standing rivalries vanishing like a fart in the wind?
Im hearing over here that Kevin Warren approached Oregon and UW but both said we are "standing pat" for now. So whatever that means...who knows whats true
This is all very sad and wrong. Oh yay, the Big Ten is getting bigger.... rejoice, rejoice...fuck that. This is bullshit.
I love Michigan everything, my mom went there, my dad went to EMU...so of course I love the Big Ten as well but this is just all dirty and by the day, Im caring less about this game the call "college" football....which many out there are feeling the same. The negative ripple effects of this are going to be so large...but hey the 1%ers out there keep getting richer...SEC and Big Ten are the 1%ers.
Microcosm of our society
I get what you are saying but also re-alignment is as old as college football is
Sounds like it is quite possible the politicians in the State of Washington are working toward setting up a law that forces both UW and WSU into being mid-majors. Wouldn't it be better to allow UW on the big stage without shacking them to WSU.
Yea I feel bad for the fans of the PAC 10 leftovers. This whole thing is stupid and sad.
I’d way just go back to the way things were before the BCS nonsense. But since that ain’t happening I guess I will at least take some comfort in the fact that we are at least in one of the 2 Super Conferences.
I understand your frustration, but the driver here is the wild popularity of football in this country and the fact that cable/satellite/internet has made it easy to consume in large quantities. The conferences and member schools are the ones with leverage and extracting as much value as possible from the networks and their advertisers.
May as well take UW and UO if we're taking the LA schools. Secondary targets would be Cal and Stanford.
I don't want ND. I feel like they had their chance and said no. Let them continue to be an island.
This is just another douche bag trying to drive traffic to his social media, just like all the Jim Harbaugh "sources" that had him going everywhere there was an NFL opening.
Stanford, Cal, UW, CU all make more sense than Nutred Down for many reasons, most notably media market. Nobody cares about improving the B10 coverage to South Bend Indiana and it thousands of TV's considering the B10 is already entrenched there.
Spreading coverage is exponentially more important and the TV's gained by creating a B10 West will effectively eliminate anything the SEC comes up with. Just think number of TV's first then go from there.
So you think NBC has their contract with Notre Dame to capture the all important South Bend media market?
Stop it. There is 1 University left that is worth the media rights and that's ND.
C'mon man, this isnt about which "University" is left, its about TV MARKETS.
You people are so infatuated with the shiny object, thats why people on social media make these disingenuous/outright lies about "sources", because it drives traffic and lines their pockets.
Who is going to watch Nutre Dome when they are playing Duke, Virginia Boston College, Pitt, Georgia Tech etc. every week? Nobody thats who. This is why Clemson to the B1G makes wont happen, theres a better chance Miami joins the B1G, think of that TV market joining the B1G.
Look, I realize my response is tainted due to my disdain for ND and its "I'm a catholic so I'm a Notre Dame fan" following but I don't think ND has as much leverage as the social media snake oil salesmen want you to believe.
Miami is a has-been. FSU is the only University worth poaching in FLA.
It is about markets, and I'd rank the teams worth adding about like this:
Notre Dame
FSU
Georgia Tech
North Carolina OR Duke
Stanford
Virginia
Clemson
Missouri would be worth it if you could pry them out of the SEC, which I doubt. I really can't think of anyone else that would be worth our time. And money.
Notre Dame can go away.
Please, please, please Notre Dame keep saying no. Enjoy your NBC money.
I'd like to see Boston College, only because I would love to see a Michigan game then a Red Sox game the same weekend, or a Michigan game then a Red Wings Bruins game.
I like the way you think, that and the Boston TV market is literally up for grabs and its a good one.
PS. How's Moon Unit these days?
She is still a valley girl.
F it. Go all in and take ND, Stanford, Cal, Washington, Oregon, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Pitt, Cincy, Syracuse, and Boston College, and ISU. F it, add BYU and Utah for lulz. Take all the TV markets and blow up whatever tradition the B1G had left.
30 teams total. 6 pods of 5 teams. 9 game conference schedule.
Play your pod (4 games), plus 1 game against every other pod (5 games). Add 2 game against the SEC Frankenstein conference to get you to 11 games. Finally, mandate 1 game against a local non-super conference team, such as Eastern Michigan to act as a tune-up game to open the season.
Generally agree. But suspect it'll be a push for AAU schools.
Add UW, UO, Cal, Stanford, Arizona, Utah and Colorado from the PAC. Add Kansas. Go after AAU schools in ACC (Duke, UNC, UVA, Pitt, Georgia Tech).
Go after ND (non AAU). You'd have a most of the AAU schools that play big time sports. See if yoy can use that to pry the AAU schools in the SEC away (Texas, Texas A&M, Vandy, Missouri and Florida).
Get large enough to have 4 viable divisions (divisions don't necessarily have to be exactly the same size). The winners of whom play off to determine championship. So, the conference assumes the role of the current NCAA in addition to scheduling, division alignment...
Tell the SEC to screw themselves and don't schedule them or play them every. SEC gets most of the south but B1G has TV interest in the rest of the country.
The B1G could even have a post season bball tournament with invitations to teams from other conferences (maybe excluding the SEC).
Cal and Stanford yes: academically, recruiting, TV market size, B1G/Michigan alumni footprint - they would be positive additions. And they would form a west coast pod with USC and UCLA.
Can't understand people wishing for Washington and Oregon. They add little in those terms, and will take far more than they give. (Nike money? Oregon's the biggest beneficiary of Nike money - at both ends - less so Michigan or other B1G teams. I would rather support players or the program in another way that doesn't end up supporting a recruiting rival.) Adding OU and WA would certainly help those schools, but really wouldn't do a lot of good for Michigan in terms of recruiting, in return for diluting the TV rights moneys.
People slam the Rutgers and Maryland (even Penn State) additions, but at least in terms of recruiting and increasing TV market size and alumni footprint, they made a lot of sense. Adding them gave advantages to Michigan and the B1G at least as much as it helped those schools. Adding Nebraska? Not so much.
Seattle-Tacoma is 14th TV market. Denver 17th. Portland 24th.
Take Cal, Stanford, UW, UO, Colorado, Utah and Arizona (all AAU schools) and you pretty much own the midwest and west tv viewers.
Big markets, but if they weren't watching those teams in the Pac 12, what makes you they will when they are in the B1G?
Why would the Big Ten be limited to 20 teams? If it is all about $, add any large TV markets available - Stanford, Oregon, Washington, Arizona, Colorado. Then as ACC schools bail, invite UNC, Duke, UVA and maybe GT or BC.
Add all those teams and you're big enough to leave the NCAA and have your own football playoffs and host a post-season basketball invitational tournament to replace NCAA. You'd control the US college sports TV market except for the south.
That is exactly what is happening. We are going to have two separate leagues with different rules. One will be more (sorta?) student-athlete based. The other will be a (semi) pro league affiliated with southern schools.
The NCAA golden goose is being killed and eaten before our eyes.
Give me Oregon and Washington all day long.
Good schools, cool campuses, good programs, and they help UCLA and USC with scheduling.
Also, to hell with Notre Dame.
Big Ten West:
1. Notre Dame
2. USC
3. UCLA
4. Oregon
5. Washington
6. Colorado
7. Nebraska
8. Iowa
9. Wisconsin
10. Minnesota
Big Ten East:
1. Michigan
2. MSU
3. PSU
4. OSU
5. Illinois
6. Purdue
7. Rutgers
8. Maryland
9. Northwestern
10. Indiana
At least as good as what we have today in the regular season and maybe a cool Big Ten championship game in the Rose Bowl. Although hard to see ND agreeing to it, so maybe it's Stanford instead, in which case still better than today.
To hell with Notre Dame.
To hell with Notre Dame. Period. End.
Bring Stanford, Cal, Virginia, UNC and fuck Notre Dame
Notre Dame #17
Georgia Tech (+AAU, Market, Recruiting)
Florida (-SEC)
Texas (-SEC)
Stanford
Texas A&M (-SEC/Culture), UNC
Cal, Virginia, Washington, Oregon
With the money issue likely handled in the BIG, the next step is to get into SEC territory and pull some blue chip recruits out of Texas, Florida, Georgia in order to compete > another CA school)
The Big 4 Blue Chip States in order are: FL > Texas > Georgia > California
Notre Dame has a history with both Stanford & Georgia Tech (not to mention: USC, Purdue, MSU, Northwestern & Michigan)
Step #1
Notre Dame + Georgia Tech or Stanford
Florida, Texas and Texas A&M, are on an academic upswing. Association with the BIG if in the same region of money as the SEC and still a route for national championships MIGHT sell them.
If we took Florida the SEC could have Florida State and or Miami (non AAU schools)
Georgia Tech would be like Rutgers and Maryland added for their academics, market AND recruiting potential for the REST of the conference.
Atlanta is smack dab in the middle of a recruiting hot bed. Driveable to most of SEC recruits wanting to initially check out the top BIG programs without the cost and time of traveling.
Texas A&M PISSED about Texas to SEC? Houston market AND recruiting.
Isn't ND's total broadcast revenue now just 50M? You would think if NBC was still committed they would up that to help ND, but didn't NBC also just try to talk to the B10 about B10 games?
Fwiw, I have a good domer friend who's literally sixth generation ND and he told me the AD's finances have been slipping for the past few years (generally and also due to travel costs being in the ACC for all sports but football) and this was the untold underlying reason why Kelly left. Apparently, there's also a group of professors who are upset the school has had to divert finances away from the school to the AD (hence the untimely annual leaks about some football players barely being eligible). Swarbick has also said publicly that he would rethink independence if the finances of being independent no longer made sense.
Seems like they're putting on a giant facade to try to maintain independence but are now being backed into a corner financially. So in reality they need the BIG more than the BIG needs them, or they would have to join the SEC which is unthinkable for them. Right now, the BIG and SEC hold all the cards. They can start negotiating a playoff between the two leagues, and then wait for the programs on the outside looking in (ND, Clemson, FSU, Miami, Oregon, Wash.) to come to the table begging. If I were Kevin Warren, I'm on the phone with Sankey right now scheming up how to divvy the spoils. BIG gets ND and whatever West coast schools they want, SEC gets the ACC teams they want.
This isn't new thread worthy...but the B1G's dilemma is simple.
As some on this board know, I've worked in college athletics admin for awhile now.
We can keep saying fuck ND, but they're the last big fish.
The B1G would prefer Oregon, Washington, Stanford and ND.
But if ND says, "no." The math changes.
So there is a prevailing thought in the conference, damage the ACC and ND will come.
So that means UVA, UNC and GT.
They would prefer the west coast teams, but if the east coast teams gives you ND (because they don't want to join an ACC without those programs)...then the powers that be say "go east."
You're trying to force their hand, but adding those 3 east coast teams and NOT getting ND would be a blow, in the minds of some.
ND isn't going to make a guarantee, and if you go to them, they're not going to negotiate, they're going to leak your plan, etc.
IMO, the only play is to go to them and say "would you come if we let you pick 3 teams to come with you out of this pool?" If they say no, which they probably will, you move on.
Unless you can convince yourself that UVA/UNC/GT is > or = ORE/WASH/STAN. If you can, take the east coast teams, put the screws to ND and if they still say no...live with Pitt, VA Tech, Kansas or Duke as the 20th team.
ND has value, no question. However, to say ND is worth turning down a combination of say Wash, Oregon, and two other P5 schools... not so much.
If you've already brought in USC and UCLA than why add UVA, UNC and GT? Why would USC and UCLA want to join a conference when the next team furthest west is Nebraska? I think the conversation with Notre Dame is probably along the lines of allowing them to help pick the remaining Pac12 pieces as an incentive to joining.
Twenty teams, two divisions - The original ten Big Ten Teams (sorry UChicago) and the new Big Ten teams in a separate division. No cross divisional games except the conference championship. This way, it's like expansion never happened and Michigan gets to play real Big Ten schools every week.