Michigan Secondary Development Trend Compared to OSU
Following last week's draft, I decided to look into how Michigan's secondary has developed compared to OSU's in the eyes of the NFL. This is particularly interesting as Michigan battles OSU for Aaron Scott and Bryce West in this current recruiting class. Here is what I found(short story, Clink has been a machine!):
OSU's secondary players that were drafted in the last 3 drafts:
0 DBs in the 2023 Draft
0 DBs in the 2022 Draft
1 DB in the 2021 Draft(Shaun Wade, 5 ⭐️ who ended up getting drafted as a 5th rounder)
Michigan's secondary players that were drafted in the last 3 drafts:
1 DB in the 2023 Draft(DJ Turner, 3 ⭐️ who ended up getting drafted as a 2nd rounder)
1 DB in the 2022 Draft(Dax Hill, 5 ⭐️ who ended up getting drafted as a 1st rounder)
1 DB in 21 Draft(Josh Metellus, 3 ⭐️ who ended up getting drafted as a 6th rounder)
Ronnie Hickman and Cam Brown were 4-stars that went undrafted altogether last week.
To be fair, Jeff Okudah and Damon Arnette were 1st rounders in the 2020 draft, although both have been giant busts in the NFL so far(Okudah struggled mightily and was hurt in Detroit while Arnette had gun and battery issues for the Raiders and Chiefs).
Michigan has a shot to put Rod Moore in the first round in next year's draft, and in a recent mock draft if everyone was eligible, Will Johnson was mocked 10th overall.
Clinkscale deserves all the credit in the world and Michigan can make an excellent developmental pitch to recruits like Scott and West that Ann Arbor is the spot to be if you're a corner or safety.
From ripping off helmets to being hurdled on the nail-in-coffin run, to busting a tackle when you're the only thing between the WR and 6, I am really, really going to miss Cam Brown.
Rod Moore in the 1st round?
"Michigan has a shot to put Rod Moore in the first round in next year's draft"
Blake Corum has a shot to be drafted by the Pistons this summer, as well.
Rod Moore had as many interceptions and sacks last season as Dax had in 3 years at Michigan. He also had more tackles last year than Dax had in any of his 3 seasons. Dax obviously has an elite quickness that got him into the 1st round, but Moore could find himself there with a repeat season.
You can’t be a first round pick just based on production. I like Moore and he’s a good player but he just doesn’t have the speed and athleticism to warrant that grade.
I said he has a shot at the first round....which is realistic. PFF has him as the preseason #2 safety in the country heading into this fall. If not, no problem. That's not the overarching point of the post.
If he’s projected to go in the 3rd round, I could see the Lions taking him in the 1st.
Now I see the path, it’s happening!
I've been one of the highest on moore when he arrived, even crediting Shoop for pushing for him ( but I have no evidence of it). He knows the game and Moore seemed like a type we haven't recruited in forever, so I attributed to Shoop. He will have to have a huge year to go in the first round because his measurable aren't there, but all the intangibles sure are.
There's a scene in Napoleon Dynamite, where he declares Uncle Rico's football video the dumbest movie ever. To which Kip replies "Napoleon, like anyone could even know that" To you sir, I throw down the gauntlet on your claim of being one of the highest on Moore. For how could you even know that? Perhaps this board is full of people with Moore's photo as our screensavers, garage posters, kid's jerseys and much, much Moore
me too!
Michigan has a shot to put MgrowOld in the first round in next year's draft as well.
1. I'm a recent graduate (in the grand scheme of eternity, what's 42 years really)
2. My RAS testing scores werent tooo bad (when you take into consideration I'm 63, have bad eyes & ears and need a hip replacement)
3. All my co-workers went to my birthday party! (that seems important these days)
"Here we go, folks. MGrowOld, the Lions' first round CB draft pick last year, is into the game for his first snap. And the ball is snapped, and...oh no, MGrowOld is down. They're bringing out the cart...wait, no, they're waving the cart off. He's dead, ladies and gentlemen. On the first snap of his career, he's dead. This will really reflect negatively on the Lions' decision to take a 63 year old with a failing body in the first round. Oh, the huge manatee..."
i regret that i can only give this a single upvote.
wait, i got it...i'm going to +1 this, then neg it, then +1 again. repeatedly, possibly.
What position are we talking about?
None of this matters. I only want to know where you were in mock drafts.
I suspect he would be mocked mercilessly.
Don't wait on the hip replacement. Life changer.
I'm right there with MGrowOld; age, graduation, birthday party, etc.
My hips are fine, but I have a bad knee -- that can be supported with a brace (I skied in Utah this past spring). I think that puts me a draft pick (or two) above him.
Seems like OSU's overall development of defensive players has fallen off a cliff lately. They still get guys drafted on that side of the ball since they absolutely continue to bring in athletic talent, but they used to consistently put out NFL-ready high-round guys, and we're not seeing as much of that since this fully became Day's roster. Hope croots that Michigan is competing for take notice...
100%. Zach Harrison went in the 3rd round, which is decent, but he very likely would've been a 1st round pick, at the very least 2nd rounder, if he had come and been developed at UM. Between position coaches, scheme, and S&C, I'm not sure there's any program better than UM at the moment for getting the most out of a player and getting them NFL ready.
To your point, it's pretty strange to see OSU struggle so much in that regard as they've been an NFL factory, and typically one of the best units in the nation, on D for quite some time. Just shows that talent & potential isn't everything.
Their defense has basically back slid every year under Ryan Day. While Urban (despite being an offensive guy) clearly still packed the defense with talent, I think Day has prioritized the best talent being on offense. That's paid off with a cute offense that scores a lot (against non-Michigan teams) but the raw talent of the defense is not where it used to be. And Larry Johnson has fallen off from being the DL guru he once was. And linebackers/secondary has suffered with the rotating door of DC's and coaches.
Things should stabilize under Jim Knowles, assuming his defense doesn't wilt again and get him fired for another late season collapse.
They had the luxury of instant pass rush with the Bosa brothers and Chase Young, now those DBs have to cover for a tick longer. Amazing the warts that a fierce pass rush can cover.
I've said this before, but OSU's insane recruiting over the last decade in particular has left them in the position of either getting guys to pan out to their extremely high recruiting ranking or disappointing. They don't take a lot of "projects" who might outperform their rankings. So the bar for "success" is pretty damn high, as the number of kids who get drafted each year is pretty low overall. That said, they have more bullets in the chamber than most, so you'd expect to see them producing talent at least as well as we do and probably better.
I think we occupy an enviable position in some respects because we've got excellent evals that find guys who could become great AND the coaches to pull it off. Maybe we get a bunch more 5 stars and see that change but something tells me....based on results on the field.....that it won't. I think Michigan will continue to go after its guys while OSU goes after the "best" guys, and our guys will just be ranked more highly than they used to be.
They're still riding the coattails of players from pre-Covid
His name...is 'Rod Moore First Round Pick'
What about Hill, Thomas, Lewis, Long? I know they weren't under Clink....
That's going back too far, them you have to include OSU DBs from those years.
This actually gives me a really good idea for some data analysis. I’ll put it together later when I have time and post it.
also compare our defensive backfield to MSU's!
...
oh wait save your time i can guess how that one plays out
Ambry Thomas was drafted in the 3rd round of the 2021 draft. Josh Metellus was drafted in the 6th round of the 2020 draft.
Yikes! Thanks for the heads up, not sure how I missed that.
Pay the man. Pay the staff.
I have no sources on this other than my butt, but it feels like Clinkscale is the DC-in-waiting if Minter leaves for another job. He's already the passing game coordinator and best recruiter on that side (other than Partridge now). And this will be his 3rd year to learn the system under MacDonald/Minter.
His title is actually already co-defensive coordinator. If Minter leaves for the NFL or head coaching, I would be thrilled to retain Clink.
"What is The Homie J's butt saying?" doesn't have quite as nice a ring as, "What is Sam's gut saying?".
Don't forget Jeff Okudah....he went in the 1st round and really worked out well....uh, nevermind.
I think that pff scores or accolades like all-B1G or all-American would be better metrics because the draft is based on measurable and expectations as much as, if not more than, production
All good - but man we are puffing out our chests... hopefully the team is still in cornered feral animal status, and not basking in the glow of the recent wins.
Its fine to applaud Clink, and say that we're doing a good job overall - but if you really want to compare how we do in the draft, its not even close in recent history. We put a lot of guys in the draft, they put a lot of guys in the first round.
Even the year we had 11 players or something drafted... how many of those guys stick around longer than 2 years? How many in the first round?
The draft isn't the ultimate decider of things, but they're killing it.. lets not get silly by cherrypicking data.
I'm using a 3-year window, which obviously isn't the overall story, but it is more than one year! Seems like a trend to me. Just pointing out that Michigan seems to be developing our players well in the secondary and OSU is having a solid amount of highly rated guys struggle to get drafted. How is that boasting?
All good - but man we are puffing out our chests... hopefully the team is still in cornered feral animal status, and not basking in the glow of the recent wins.
Did the previous decade of getting punked by OSU/BPONE hurt you that bad, my friend?
First - Yes. And it wasnt a decade, it was 2.
Second - Think of it this way... pride comes before the fall? hahahah.. that f-ing clown. But, OSU was overconfident last year and the year before - as if it was theirs to have if they wanted it. We had to rip it away from them.
All I'm saying is.. there's a desperation that must be felt to truly take hold of the rivalry. Its not just stupid pep rallies with your drunk OC yelling about how great they'll be... its how you prepare, and of course, how well your talent can perform on that stage.
Just saying the mental part of the game is critical as well. Don't lose that edge (to the team)
I agree the mental aspect of the game is just as important and wasn't chiding your initial response. Just wanted to make sure a fellow fan is ok haha!
I don't think it really matters what we say, do, or think unless we are actually suiting up for the games. I would indeed be very disappointed though if Harbaugh and co entered the year with an underprepared, prideful attitude. Just seems unlikely with these coaches.
100% agree. and in both my comments, i referenced the fact that i only care about the team's focus.. not ours. our glory is to boast and laugh at them.