Is this Michigan football team similar to the 2002 NC OSU team with Clarett?
Maurice Clarett 11 games 222 att, 1237 yds with a 5.6 per carry av. 16 TD's
Lydell Ross 14 games 166 att, 619 yds 3.7 per carry
Craig Krenzel 148 comp, 249 att, 59.4 pct, 2110 yds 12TD's 7 int's
Defense was ranked #2 in total defense giving up only 13.1 pts per game.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/ohio-state/2002.html#all_team
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/years/2002-team-defense.html
October 26th, 2021 at 10:04 AM ^
At the moment? If you’re suggesting that we may have a wr that’s even close to Jenkins is very misguided. We are what we are, especially after 7 games. Our wrs are just not good. No wr on this team would start for that 2002 osu team
October 26th, 2021 at 10:29 AM ^
If you’re suggesting that we may have a wr that’s even close to Jenkins is very misguided.
I am suggesting that we may or may not have a 1,000 yard receiver type on the roster but depending on your view of the passing game issues, we probably won't see it happen.
CJ could have another ~150 yards if Cade had given him a shot on at least 2 deep balls this year that he missed plus the missed DPI last week that would have been a TD. That would put him around 500 yards receiving at the moment and 5 or 6 TDs. Is that a CJ problem? Cade? Passing game play calling? I think it's a confluence of all 3 things but CJ has been open enough to trend towards 600-800 receiving yards in an offense that doesn't throw much.
October 26th, 2021 at 10:53 AM ^
Yeah, this comment is a bit misguided. Jenkins was a 1,000 yd receiver in '02. He also only finished with 6 TDs for the entire season. Additionally, the #2 receiver on that team? A two-way player in Chris Gamble, who came in with only 499 yds and 0 TDs. The other 12 guys who caught passes that year only accounted for 577 yards and I challenge you to name any of them off the top of your head. Point is - don't make Jenkins out as some Biletnikoff Award Finalist. He was good, but he was also the only guy. Literally any of Michigan's wideouts would probably start opposite of Jenkins that year. Again, they had to insert Chris Gamble on the offensive side of the ball because they didn't have great depth.
October 26th, 2021 at 11:31 AM ^
The real MVP of that 2001 OSU team was the kicker, Mike Nugent. Absolutely clutch in late/close game situations, of which there were many that year. Ended up as a 2x AA, 2nd(!) round draft pick.
We have Moody, who has the potential to be that guy if necessary (already was against Nebraska).
That staff also had Mark Dantonio, Luke Fickell, and Mel Tucker, not bad.
October 26th, 2021 at 9:52 AM ^
In broad strokes, maybe. But Michigan has a very different roster, runs a very different offense, and exists in a very different college football landscape. 2002 OSU won a national championship with the 70th ranked offense by yards per game.* That's not how you build a national championship contender anymore.**
*I don't have access to advanced stats dating back to 2002, so I used average yards per game as an approximate proxy.
**Now you do it by being anointed one of the Favored Four and avoiding a second loss in the regular season.
October 26th, 2021 at 9:54 AM ^
I always thought that OSU team had limited upside because of Krenzel.
October 26th, 2021 at 10:59 AM ^
is there an upside higher than national champion?
October 26th, 2021 at 11:24 AM ^
Super Bowl?
October 26th, 2021 at 12:02 PM ^
Dancing with the Stars?
October 26th, 2021 at 4:39 PM ^
Nope.
October 26th, 2021 at 4:40 PM ^
And it was not the 1st time or last time I’ve been wrong.
October 26th, 2021 at 9:56 AM ^
That was a more talented team and college football had fewer dominant teams (Miami was clearly coming down from their heights and USC wasn't quite ascendant), so a team like OSU could grind through games and win. And OSU had crazy luck in 1-score games, going 7-0.
I think UM is good but they aren't quite an NC level team on either side of the ball, whether it be 2021 or 2002.
October 26th, 2021 at 10:07 AM ^
Cincinnati dropped a ball in the end zone in week 1 which would have beat OSU. That was obviously before they were any good.
It was maddening watching them win so many one score games they easily could have lost. None of those were cosmetic.
My hottest of takes: end of October 2021 Michigan looks better than end of October 2002 OSU. But, that can’t persist unless they keep winning.
#KeepWinning
October 26th, 2021 at 11:01 AM ^
cincy actually dropped two in a row. also it was week 4. but yea.
October 26th, 2021 at 1:03 PM ^
OSU nearly loses or is losing at halftime of at least one game they should win every September. By the time they play us they look like the '19 Chiefs. We look like the Baltimore Ravens every September and by the time we play them we look like the Lions. This is the way.
October 26th, 2021 at 1:10 PM ^
Except Ohio State never looked particularly dominant that entire 2002 season. That team would have beaten Northern Illinois 13-9.
October 26th, 2021 at 11:45 AM ^
Miami was clearly coming down from their heights and USC wasn't quite ascendant
That's easy to say now, in hindsight, but at the time, Miami was a prohibitive favorite going into the Fiesta Bowl. Nobody outside of Ohio was picking the Buckeyes to win that game.
October 26th, 2021 at 1:31 PM ^
Oh absolutely, people assumed Miami would run OSU off the field. But you look what Miami did afterwards and you can see they were trending down a bit.
October 26th, 2021 at 9:59 AM ^
Not bad, OP. You might get trashed for this, but it is an interesting post.
The Krenzel-McNamara comparison seems particularly worthy. Very similar QBs.
October 26th, 2021 at 11:05 AM ^
i would disagree with that. 2002 krenzel averaged almost a full yard more per attempt (8.5 to 7.6) than 2021 mcnamera is at right now, and 2002 krenzel rushed for nearly 400 yards. halfway through 2021, mcnamera is sitting at -12 rushing yards.
October 26th, 2021 at 11:54 AM ^
True statement. Krenzel made a lot of plays with his feet. On the other hand an argument could be made for the 2021 Wolverines bearing a strong resemblance to the 2002 Wolverines.
October 26th, 2021 at 12:23 PM ^
Oof. That's cold water comparison.
October 26th, 2021 at 2:26 PM ^
I didn't realize Krenzel's YPA were that good, especially for 2002 that's impressive. That year was a bit of an outlier as he went back down to 7.3 his senior (5th) year.
October 26th, 2021 at 10:00 AM ^
That OSU team was the luckiest team of all time. I don't see Michigan ever being that lucky.
October 26th, 2021 at 10:01 AM ^
Not even close
October 26th, 2021 at 10:01 AM ^
It doesn't matter because you can't win a national championship with that type of team anymore. Ball control and defense doesn't win. I've said a few times on here, it's why Nick Saban of all people, saw the writing on the wall and brought Lane Kiffin in to modernize the offense. You need to outscore elite teams. Grinding out 12-14 play drives when the other team is scoring in 8 or less plays isn't going to win. It's too much pressure on the offense to be perfect. Eventually they make a mistake, get behind the chains and are chasing the scoreboard the rest of the game.
October 26th, 2021 at 10:02 AM ^
How about 2003 Minnesota with Laurence Maroney and Marion Barber?
October 26th, 2021 at 10:02 AM ^
Let’s compare after we have a Naty.
October 26th, 2021 at 10:06 AM ^
^^^^ THIS ^^^^ We haven't played the toughest part of our schedule yet. If we finish 12-0 ??????, then let's have that discussion. Would love to have it!
October 26th, 2021 at 10:29 AM ^
Beat MSU.
We have a long road to hoe before any of this talk makes sense. A talented MSU team combined with their dumb luck is going to be tough to beat. Despite PSU's recent efforts they should be a tough game too. IU and Maryland are not gimmes. OSU is OSU. Enjoy each game one at a time. I'll start fantasizing when we're in the B1G championship game.
Though I do find myself perusing the schedule more often....
October 26th, 2021 at 10:59 AM ^
The idiom is "long row to hoe." We hoe rows not roads. Other than that, I agree with you completely!
October 26th, 2021 at 12:33 PM ^
I believe it's "Long Road to Ho"
October 26th, 2021 at 12:38 PM ^
yes, i'm sure you haven't made any predictions based on what we've seen so far this season.
we can't think about how this team might be similar to a national champ until and unless they win a national championship!
October 26th, 2021 at 10:02 AM ^
Tressel made a huge mistake by playing Krenzel over Justin Zwick. Zwick would have allowed them to call the touchdown play more. He turtled his way to a NC and beat one of the most talented teams in the CFB history in the NC.
PS-That PI flag on Miami is still bullshit.
October 26th, 2021 at 10:05 AM ^
Actually the best parallel would be the 1946 National Champion Army team that had a pair of 1,000 yard rushers and a quarterback that threw 9 touchdown passes over 10 games. We are on the same track though Cade is a little behind with 5 touchdown passes over the first 7 games.
You can see a lot of parallels in the philosophy of the two teams. Both ran more than 80% of plays in the red zone. Course we don't have quite the daredevil approach to throwing as Army in 1946 given that half of our 20 passes last game were behind the line of scrimmage (which as Michigan Monday reported led to an average of 1 yard through the air per pass over the game). Course, this would have been consistent with most 1946 teams .... Army just had a different philosophy for that period incorporating that new fangled forward pass concept. Not sure if we are ready for that commitment to throwing beyond the first down markers.
October 26th, 2021 at 10:08 AM ^
I think this is a good comparison.
1. The QBs are ball control with very few long completions.
2. The dual running backs obviously.
3. Let's not forget special teams. OSU had Mike Nugent who was a Sr and kicked 24 of 27 FGs and all 30 XPs. He was so good that he was taken in the 2nd round of the draft.
However,
1. We don't have a Chris Gamble on this team who caught 31 passes on offense and had 4 INTs for the defense.
2. We're also missing Chris Jenkins, a WR drafted 1st round draft. (Might have with Ronnie.)
3. Their defense was outstanding. I'm not convinced we're quite there.
I think if we had a go to receiver and I could truly trust our corners, then I think that team might be a good proxy, although I hesitate to ever say that about an OSU team in regards to anything Michigan.
October 26th, 2021 at 10:10 AM ^
I think this team is most comparable to Harbaugh's first UM team in 2015.
October 26th, 2021 at 10:14 AM ^
OP: I get where you are going with this but there is one major problem. On the face though, you are right. 2002 OSU was built around a game manager of a QB, a smothering and very talented D and an elite running game that was based upon the running backs because the QB didn't run. I would agree, on the surface, Michigan looks and feels the same, though I would take the 2002 OSU defensive talent over Michigan's this year.
That said, the problem is that in 2002 you could win a national championship with that formula. What do I mean? That year, OSU only would have needed 8 points to beat a ranked Washington State team, 15 against Wisconsin, 8 against Penn State, 4 against a ranked Minnesota, 10 against Michigan and 18 to beat Miami in regulation. The most points OSU gave up in regulation the entire season was 21 and that was playing against 4 teams ranked in the top 12 at the time of the game. TL;DR the upside of a 2021 Michigan or a 2002 OSU in this era is not national championship worthy - not saying Michigan can't have a great year or that 02 OSU couldn't win the Big Ten this year, of course.
October 26th, 2021 at 10:24 AM ^
Everyone seems to be avoiding the elephant in the room ... Krenzel averaged 12 quarterback carries per game over the national championship season. His ability to keep the ball helped limit the degree teams could focus on their running backs (along with his 12 touchdown passes).
October 26th, 2021 at 10:17 AM ^
how dare you compare Haskinks and Corum to Xaurice Clarett
October 26th, 2021 at 11:01 AM ^
Yeah, let's not Haskink-shame.
October 26th, 2021 at 11:02 AM ^
Freudian slip.
October 26th, 2021 at 10:24 AM ^
I see where you are going OP and there may be some overlap. My two biggest differences from this team from the 2002 team.
1) Era of College Football: In 2002, you could realistically win games 13 - 10 and play tressel ball. Today, I do not think that is realistic. Today, you can be a 10 or 11 win team with dominate defenses, good special teams, and offenses that don't turn the ball over. However, the skill position talent is so great, that even great defenses cannot hold these offenses to under 30 points. Alabama at one point had 3 first round receivers on a roster.
2) Michigan's defense, despite being good, has some trouble spots that prevent it from being elite. While I like what I have seen from DJ Turner, this is not the same corner group that had Jourdan Lewis on one side, Jeremy Clark on the other, and then Channing Stribling as your third corner.
October 26th, 2021 at 11:59 AM ^
Yeah the defense is the biggest thing for me. That team, as lucky as they were, still had an elite defense. Our defense might top out at good, or even very good, but it's not elite.
October 26th, 2021 at 10:43 AM ^
Maybe if we didn’t have to face the 2021 buckeyes.
October 26th, 2021 at 10:45 AM ^
Mel Tucker was on that 2002 OSU staff.
October 26th, 2021 at 10:48 AM ^
This team is not winning a national championship this year. When we recognize that, we can enjoy what it is and what it is building toward much more easily.
October 26th, 2021 at 11:20 AM ^
You don't believe in miracles?