M Rowing wins 9th straight National Championship
2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 and now 2016.
The Michigan Men have taken home the ACRA National Championship nine straight years.
The Wolverines victory was powered by wins from the Freshman 8, the Second Varsity 8 and the fourth straight boat title for the Varsity 8.
I know we have some former rowers on here so this is extra special for them.
Is it time for Michigan to compete in the IRA?
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have another beer
Especially during what is really a down period when it comes to blog activity, we do sometimes forget about some of these nice things which tend to go on in the shadow what normally gets extensive coverage around here. Congratulations to the rowing team on what is a phenomenal feat and a fantastic run indeed.
Wow - they are killing it at this level. Going to IRA would be a huge step into a much, much tougher level of competition, but if we had scholarships...
Yeah, I mean that's what I implied. Wisconsin has men's rowing even though the NCAA doesn't sanction a championship for it.
We're building an indoor rowing facility right now.
Why not add men's rowing? The only thing is is a rowing roster is very large. Lot of scholarships needed.
Yep - a roster to compete at IRA's would probably be about 80-100 guys.
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W Hockey would be spectacular.
The fact Michigan doesnt already have a W hockey team boggles.
The fact Michigan doesnt already have a W hockey team boggles.
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I looked at Princeton's and Washington's men's teams, and they both had upwards of 75 guys on their rosters (heavies and lights)...if you're running the whole gamut of boats (singles, pairs, doubles, quads, fours, eights), you need a lot of dudes. But I defer to the coach! Hook'em.
It's club.
I could be wrong, but it seems to me like we win with numbers. We have boats in every category. We didn't exactly dominate but managed to get points in every level. That doesn't sound like a sure thing for the varsity level.
UC-Santa Barbara won the team title, and it wasn't even close.
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but men's collegiate rowing below the IRA level is a bit convoluted.
First, the Michigan men's rowing team is a "varsity club" program, giving it a higher status level than that of a regular club program. Coach Gregg Hartsuff has done a great job with the program, and has produced a number of athletes that have rowed at the international/Olympic level; his top athletes are not your typical "club" or "intramural" level kids.
It is my opinion that it will always be VERY difficult to compete (at least for a spot in the Grand Final; i.e. top 6) at the IRAs unless the program was elevated to full varsity status and had some scholarship money available. IMO it would NOT require a huge number of scholarships as mentioned in another post, even 10 - 20 would allow him to recruit some top level American and international rowers that would supplement the line-ups in his top two boats, thereby increasing their speed significantly. This is the similar program model being executed at all of the top level IRA programs (of course the Ivy League does not have scholarships, but they orchestrate very attractive financial aid "packages" for their athletes).
Regarding my initial point, collegiate rowing below the IRA level is a mix of DI, DII, DIII, varsity, varsity club, club, scholarship, and non-scholarship, all competing against each other at various regattas nationally. The Dad Vail Regatta in Philadelphia is a classic example of this, where you have big DI programs like UMass (women) and Temple (men) with full varsity funding (who have a very difficult time making the top 18 at NCAAs or IRAs respectively) competing against Michigan (men) and Florida Institute of Technology (FIT is a DII fully funded program with scholarships and international rowers; their AD is the former coach and it is THE sport at the school), and a mix of all of the aforementioned. It is NOT a national championship, though there was a time when they tried to "sell it" as such. Some programs end their season there, some go on to NCAAs (women), some attempt to get in to the IRAs, whereas Michigan competes at the ACRAs (Coach Hartsuff played a major role in the development of the regatta).
Finally, to help make a correlation in boat speed, last year (2015) FIT and Michigan virtually tied at the Dad Vail Regatta in the Varsity eight-oared event (FIT 5:37.1, Michigan 5:37.9) and then FIT went on to the IRA to finish in 14th place overall:
MV8 3rd Final Order Entry Result
1 DARTMOUTH 5:43.054
2 FIT 5:44.112
3 WISCONSIN 5:44.347
4 HOBART 5:45.662
5 HOLY CROSS 5:48.609
6 STANFORD 5:56.014
MV8 Petite Final Order Entry Result
1 YALE 5:37.882
2 BU 5:39.554
3 NAVY 5:39.991
4 CORNELL 5:42.566
5 PENNSYLVANIA 5:42.657
6 COLUMBIA 5:50.556
MV8 Grand Final Order Entry Result
1 WASHINGTON 5:28.015
2 CALIFORNIA 5:30.798
3 PRINCETON 5:30.942
4 BROWN 5:36.198
5 HARVARD 5:38.680
6 NORTHEASTERN 5:41.296
As I mentioned, rowing is the primary sport at FIT, and has been for the entire young life of the university (1958). Bill Jurgens is the AD and was also the rowing coach for about 20 years. They have scholarships and have a European pipeline (yes, really) pulling in rowers from Croatia, Serbia, England, Slovenia, Lithuania, etc, many of which have national team experience. Their Varsity 8+ right now has 6 foreigners in the crew. They are training for the IRAs, and it will be interesting to see how they do this coming weekend.
As for football, Bill Jurgens is a huge college football fan, and he and their entire university community are very committed to developing a DII national power. They do currently play at Palm Bay HS (just completed their 2nd season), but they are planning to build an on-campus stadium in the next few years.
the Champion International Collegiate Regatta, which was formed by a large contingent of former Dad Vail programs that were unhappy with the Dad Vail for a variety of reasons, such as uneven competition levels and the fact that the Dad Vail course on the Schuylkill River has notoriously unfair racing lanes due to the current and the fact that the racing course has a bend/turn in it (ridiculous, IMO, to ever consider holiding a true "championship" 2000 meter race on such a course).
The CIRC raced on USRA sanctioned courses and had great organziation and sponsorhip. The regatta was held for seven years in a row, and while it did not solve all of the competition issues of the "Dad Vail level" programs, it was one hell of a lot better than the Dad Vail Regatta itself.
...did the Heavyweight/Lightweight terminology change?
I do not know of any changes; could you elaborate please?
Put another way: If there were an AP poll for all rowing teams M would definitely be in the top 25.
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When were you coaching there?
It will be very interesting to see if Dave O'Neill can turn the women's team in to a real national championship contender over the next few years. He clearly already has them going faster than Carie Graves ever did.
Are times comparable across competitions in crew? Or do the conditions of each race make a big difference? That is, could one plug in the times from the race Michigan won and compare to the IRA final?
What a stupid argument.
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Michigan wins rowing ACRA (club) championship!
Just like:
App State Wins FCS Championship!
These celebrate that they are the best in the division in which they compete EXACTLY as you suggested but they don't mislead people by leaving out the division name or clarifications.
You would prefer to mislead? Even the team wouldn't want people announcing something they didn't achieve. Of course they don't want fans to have misperceptions about their achievements. That eventually gets to the equivalent of lying (or misleading) on your resume. Or saying you are worth $5 billion when it's really $900 million.
Hmm, your use of personal insults in your post/argument instead of facts and your preference for making misleading statements about achievements reminds me of someone.
I was on crew for a season back in the day... Wow. My avatar when I load it is going to the block M on the docks of the Huron in the morning with the fog surrounding it. Great shot!
But it's expensive at the club level....
Kudos for blowing by all of the other times this has been already explained in the thread.
is (as you know) the story of the 1936 University of Washington men's varsity 8+ that competed in the 1936 Olympic Games in Berlin in front of Adolf Hitler. That crew was the collegiate national champions that year as up until the 1960s the top collegiate crews, especially in the 8+, represented the USA at the Olympic Games.
Their amazing feat was that they beat the HEAVILY favored German and Italian national team crews, and did so in front of Adolf Hitler himself. By the way, that shell (The Husky Clipper) in which they competed in 1936 hangs in the University of Washington Conibear Shellhouse to this day (see the link please):
https://www.flickr.com/photos/waynebuck/13958691409
As for your question, see my post above about the difference between the Michigan and Washington (and other Intercollegiate Rowing Association) programs.
is (as you know) the story of the 1936 University of Washington men's varsity 8+ that competed in the 1936 Olympic Games in Berlin in front of Adolf Hitler. That crew was the collegiate national champions that year as up until the 1960s the top collegiate crews, especially in the 8+, represented the USA at the Olympic Games.
Their amazing feat was that they beat the HEAVILY favored German and Italian national team crews, and did so in front of Adolf Hitler himself. By the way, that shell (The Husky Clipper) in which they competed in 1936 hangs in the University of Washington Conibear Shellhouse to this day (see the link please):
As for your question, see my post above about the difference between the Michigan and Washington (and other Intercollegiate Rowing Association) programs.
EDIT: Sorry, double post!
A great book!! I also recommend The Shell Game.
Awesome for them!
It does seem like it's time to step up the level of competition however. For someone more knowledgeable than me... with the Athletic Department raking in money hand over fist, couldn't they just make rowing a varsity sport (greater funding, travel expenses born by the AD rather than the club members) but without scholarships or just a very minimal level of scholarships? Or does making it varsity require a significant number of scholarships be created? I get the title IX issue, but giving say, 3 rowing scholarships and adding 3 scholarships to women's sports seems like a drop in the bucket to the AD financial picture.
I'd rather see the program competing with the big boys and being mediocre instead of beating up on the little sisters of the poor. (Yes I know how incredibly hard they work, but 8 straight national championships is a pretty clear indication that the talent levels are not well matched)
I should have mentioned that earlier: The IRA has excluded varsity club/club programs from competing there. This was primarily a movement generated by some of the typical B and C level finals type programs who, even as varsity programs, were beaten by Michigan (varsity club) several times. The coaches did not want to risk their program status and/or jobs when having to explain to their respective ADs why Michigan could produce the same results and often better as a varsity club program.
regarding scholarships, but in short I would respond that I do not believe that just throwing the men's program a few bones and calling it "varsity" would do enough. The top programs have internationally competitive oarsmen (both American and foreign) in their top two crews (1st varsity and 2nd varsity eights), so it would be very difficult to compete with that type of depth in such a manner.
Regarding your point about Michigan rowing competing against the "little sisters of the poor", that is not quite the case. All of the programs (with the exception of a few) are DI varsity club/club programs at their given institutions, so the playing field is very level. It really comes down to program development and talent development (coaching), of which Michigan has done a great job. Here are the Varsity 8+ results from ACRAs. You will recognize most if not all of the programs:
Mens Varsity 8+ MV8 D Final
1 Pittsburgh 6:18.309
2 Illinois 6:23.484
3 Georgia 6:35.200
4 Long Beach St. 6:40.866
5 Wichita St. 6:45.778
Mens Varsity 8+ MV8 C Final
1 Notre Dame 6:13.731
2 Connecticut 6:16.652
3 Kansas 6:18.482
4 DePaul 6:19.033
5 Western Washington 6:19.832
6 San Diego St. 6:20.444
7 Colorado 6:20.931
8 Michigan St. 6:23.876
Mens Varsity 8+ MV8 B Final
1 Boston College 6:08.061
2 UC Davis 6:11.667
3 UMass 6:12.041
4 Bucknell 6:16.724
5 Minnesota 6:17.056
6 Texas 6:17.569
7 Washington St. 6:18.447
8 New Hampshire 6:20.121
Mens Varsity 8+ MV8 Grand Final
1 Michigan 5:52.905
2 UCSB 5:53.991
3 Virginia 5:58.346
4 North Carolina 6:01.087
5 Grand Valley St. 6:02.242
6 Orange Coast 6:04.519
7 Purdue 6:04.663
8 Cincinnati 6:15.086