March 23rd, 2020 at 10:24 AM ^
Man, just like WD you were fine until that last sentence in implying that there is something profitable enough to withstand ANYTHING. The fact of the matter is pandemics are going to hit us hard no matter what system we have. Of course some systems might LIMIT the hit, but we will be hit hard regardless.
March 23rd, 2020 at 10:39 AM ^
I don’t think I disagree with you. What I think is our ability to LIMIT the hit is being held up by our concern for the well-being of our “capitalists”.
March 23rd, 2020 at 10:25 AM ^
Yes, well known conservative, capitalistic bastion of the internet mgoblog.com really just can't handle those pesky progressive ideas that are so rare at The University of Michigan.
Ever considered that it's just a really dumb comment from a guy who single-handedly pays for Nike's existence and spends most of his time talking about Michigan sports on his technological devices that exist due to capitalism?
March 23rd, 2020 at 10:18 AM ^
He says, wearing his Michigan gear sold by Nike.
March 23rd, 2020 at 10:18 AM ^
More people might actually have savings if the socialist central bank didn’t set interest rates at near zero for a decade. That would fix at least a good chunk of the problem, but by all means blame the free market as you type on your iPhone with your Nike apparel.
March 23rd, 2020 at 10:30 AM ^
So socialism would be thriving under a government shutdown of the economy? I will factor that information into my voting decisions.
March 23rd, 2020 at 10:30 AM ^
So, WD is a communist. Who knew?
March 23rd, 2020 at 10:47 AM ^
No. Just an idiot, which isn't news.
March 23rd, 2020 at 11:03 AM ^
ah, the knee-jerk conflation of socialism and communism
March 23rd, 2020 at 11:12 AM ^
Yeah... a communist shill for Nike/Jordan.
Where does one begin to pick apart the idocy of WD's statement.
March 23rd, 2020 at 11:02 AM ^
Your last statement is foolish and wrong.
Way to be a tough guy. Maybe if you didn’t spend hundreds of dollars on every shitty piece of apparel Nike slaps a block M on, you’d have a few extra bucks to get through this. Maybe you can quarantine yourself with Michael Moore in his Torch Lake mansion and talk about how unfair capitalism is.
The government ordering businesses to shut down is the polar opposite of capitalism.
Another run on the grocery stores coming up.
March 23rd, 2020 at 10:15 AM ^
Yup. We had another run on the stores in IL before our "stay at home" rules went into place on Sat. afternoon. My son luckily found the last package of toilet paper at his local supermarket tucked behind some other paper products. He was acting like he won the lottery. He was down to his last roll.
March 23rd, 2020 at 10:23 AM ^
New Michigan Lottery game idea: "Cash To Wipe With"
March 23rd, 2020 at 11:11 AM ^
But why though? There is no reason for people to stock up/hoard things at grocery stores. Those will remain open and will still get product regardless.
March 23rd, 2020 at 12:34 PM ^
You are PROBABLY right. However there are 6 billion people who depend on a fully functioning supply chain. If that is interrupted even by 10%, a lot of people won’t get the goods they need, and may find themselves in dire situations.
Who's getting locked down? Michigan? Or the whole country?
March 23rd, 2020 at 10:56 AM ^
Thanks, Magnus, for pointing out that specific information is extremely useful and expected on this board whether the topic is related to football recruiting or global health pandemics.
Can we not "reliable source" this shit? You're not in the media, you don't have to protect your sources lest they never speak to you again, and this is public health, not trade talk. Who the hell is the source?
Freep has an article saying it'll be a stay-at-home order. Is that a lockdown?
Thank you. I find it disappointing that we don't have the courage not to crater all remaining pieces of the economy, and that our governor is a waffler who can't seem to make up her mind from Thursday to Monday. But I guess it's time to tell everyone they'll just have to be out of a job, and that the government can just print a bunch of money to make up for it later.
I don't see her statements and actions as waffling.
As they say in the automotive world, this entire situation has gone from 0 to 100 in just about a week.
To say the situation has evolved and changed on an hour-by-hour basis would be an understatement. It is very difficult to be proactive when the ground is constantly shifting under your feet...and then to know exactly how to respond and react to all of the updated information.
Not to mention the competing pressures she's getting from various lobbying groups and constituencies.
Will the economic effect be very negative? Yes. But is the alternative - many deaths - of keeping businesses open a better one? Plus, letting the virus linger could be even more of a negative economically.
Will the economic effect be very negative? Yes. But is the alternative - many deaths - of keeping businesses open a better one? Plus, letting the virus linger could be even more of a negative economically.
This is the hardest part about this thing for me, we have to make decisions without any insight on how it will affect other areas. This could cripple the economy and put a lot of families in hardship for a period of time longer than the virus would linger, if we didn't go on lockdowns.
Or, we could try to keep the economy afloat and let the virus linger for a much longer period of time than if we go into lockdown and increase the number of deaths. There is no good answer, really. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Didn't know we had a virologist or ID doc on the board. Glad to know you have mapped out exactly how long this virus would last given no lockdown. Please share your work so that it can be critiqued.
March 23rd, 2020 at 11:12 AM ^
You idiot, I said the hardest part is NOT KNOWING THE RESULTS of either decision, lockdown or economy but having to make a decision. Go get another cup of coffee, brother.
March 23rd, 2020 at 10:22 AM ^
I mean, I get what you're saying, but I would prioritize lives over the economy. Hopefully this comes with a rent/mortgage freeze like some other places are doing. That will help people note become bankrupt and save their credit for when this passes.
March 23rd, 2020 at 11:28 AM ^
Give every adult in the country 2k per month, without conditions, until this thing is over.
Expensive? Sure. But that doesn't matter when we're bailing out banks, airlines, and shoveling money into the bond market.
Give the money to the people and if companies have to go Chapter 11, so fucking what. Maybe someone that knows their ass from a hole in the ground can buy Delta's planes cheap and build a better airline.
But what changed between now and last Thursday, when a lockdown was specifically not under consideration, that wasn't foreseeable? Positive cases and deaths in the state have increased in an entirely predictable way and consistent with the increases everywhere else. The situation has, for all intents and purposes, not changed one bit.
The alternative to a lockdown on Tuesday vs. what we have now on Monday is extremely unlikely to be a measurable number of extra deaths. But it is extremely likely to result in greater human misery in the form of lost businesses and greater unemployment.
March 23rd, 2020 at 11:06 AM ^
Whitmer's the waffler you choose when there is far bigger and more obvious choice?
I know we all have heightened emotions right now, but this is ridiculous.
You really think someone is going to reveal their source? Why is there always such a negative knee-jerk reaction to someone saying they have sources? Michigan grads work at all levels of the private, public and government sectors.
"My friend Sally Williams works for Gov. Whitmer and she just let me know that we are locking down at 11AM."
Seriously? We really think someone is going to reveal the source's name and position?
"My friend works for Gov. Whitmer and she just let me know that we are locking down at 11AM."
Was that seriously so hard? This is not exactly a state secret or classified information. What do you think you could possibly compromise?
You're splitting hairs now.
There is no material difference between the OP and what you just said.
It's just as easy to say "I have a friend" as it is to say "I have a source" and be lying (or telling the truth) either way.
Without a name and/or title, it's an anonymous source either way...and then it's up to us individually to decide whether we believe the OP and the source.
I disagree. Telling us why the source is reliable makes all the difference in the world. It's the difference between telling you I have a really good car to sell you and actually showing you the car. Yes, it's still up to us to believe the OP, and yes, OP could still be lying, but more information is good and less information is bad.
OP, care to elaborate on who is getting the lockdown? Certain state? Or all 50 of them?
At this point, if one state is doing it, it might as well be all of them.
Prediction: most of the people begging for this lockdown will be complaining about it within a couple weeks. The lockdown in Italy requires people to have documents stating their purpose.
It’s reasonable to have the lockdown if there is a time limit on it, but without a time limit, it’s an abuse. There is a breaking point. I think most people could do a couple weeks, but a couple months? At some point people will just start to assume the risk of getting the virus.
It’s the American way.
March 23rd, 2020 at 10:10 AM ^
This, a thousand times this. Maybe if those folks are the ones who yell the loudest and most often then they'll get through to our "leaders"
March 23rd, 2020 at 10:18 AM ^
This has to be done to limit the spread of the virus. I understand that an order to shelter in place runs counter to our American ideal of "don't fucking tell me I can't do anything I want to do", but people are dying because we will not be told what to do even if it is right for the collective. Life is the first and foremost right in our society but it is incredibly diminished when viewed indirectly. Murder is universally understood to be violation of our core morals; killing people through the spread of disease is accepted by many because it is seen as an unfortunate byproduct of us exercising our right to assemble or participate in commerce. China, once it acknowledged it had a problem, locked their country and nuked the virus fast, we demand that our rights not be violated and already have a higher death rate per capita than the epicenter of the virus well before the peak. Like it or not, we live in a society and our actions have consequences felt by others.
March 23rd, 2020 at 11:24 AM ^
China is running a massive disinformation campaign so I’d take anything they say with a grain of salt.
I think the stay at home order is reasonable. But you also have to keep in mind that shutting down the economy can also cost lives - it’s not as “visible” as the virus, but inefficient allocation of resources has consequences when billions of people are dependent on them. Unintended consequences.
Without a timeline this may cause more distress than it’s worth.
You understand that not taking drastic measures and allowing the virus to spread with minimal resistance will cause an economic downturn, right? Knocking millions of people out of work due to illness and killing thousands would have devastating economic consequences. The loss of productivity, uncertainty in the supply chain, and astronomical healthcare expenses would crush our economy. We can either have a recession with minimal illness and loss of life (and maybe a deeper or longer recession) or a recession with massive illness and loss of life. I can't believe how many people think we actually have or made a choice between lives and the economy. It is completely infantile wishful thinking to assume that we could have saved the economy in the face of a pandemic.
March 23rd, 2020 at 12:42 PM ^
Amazingly enough, China's had no new cases for days. That coincides with when they stopped testing for the virus.
This should not be a surprise to anyone.
Based on what I have seen from other states, a lock down is not really a lock down. They probably should find a better name for it to help avoid any more undue panic.
This, precisely. It’s not a lock down nor is it really shelter-in-place. Those are very similar and imply you can’t leave your home at all.
what else do we call it, though?
No one seems to be great at the avoiding undue panic. See this quote from the mayor of Avon in the following article: https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/colorado-eagle-county-covid-19-coron…
“. . . even if you have to use alarmist language, they have to get the message out any way they can about how serious the situation is,” she said."
I get the need to get the message out but question if alarmist language is the way to do it. Walking a fine line, I suppose.
March 23rd, 2020 at 10:32 AM ^
Really??? For those who have knowledge in this regard there is nothing "alarmist" here. The hearers hold significant responsibility as well. If you are alarmed by this you have been listening to the wrong people...who is responsible for this???
The objective, informed view at this time declares that we need to do our best to flatten the increases in the short term, at least, until we gather enough information-in order to make better informed decisions. At this time the data we have are woefully lacking. We are stuck with who we are and what we know.