Malarkey

August 27th, 2020 at 11:35 AM ^

And many more are following today. 
 

“what’s kaepernick kneeling gonna accomplish?”

”what’s the entire nba kneeling gonna accomplish?”

“What’s the lions cancelling practice gonna accomplish?”

”what’s the bucks postponing a game gonna accomplish?”

”what’s the lakers and clippers cancelling their season gonna accomplish?”

 

 

“what’s nfl teams cancelling practice gonna accomplish?”

 

if you guys don’t realize hundreds of billions of dollars of the sports industry are at stake here, I don’t really know what to tell you

 

 

 

 

lilpenny1316

August 27th, 2020 at 12:41 PM ^

I hate being cynical, but Kaepernick's kneeling eventually got him paid, but I haven't seen a single policy change as a result. A bunch of billionaire owners can afford to sit this thing out in the short term. All of these sports have dealt with work stoppages before.

Are these players prepared to make sacrifices like those people in the Montgomery bus boycott? It took an entire year and a federal law to be enacted that declared their bus policies unconstitutional for the boycott to end. LeBron has enough money to sit for good. What about G-League guys or guys who've been living off 10-day contracts? Are they willing and able to sit for a year, if needed?

MichCali

August 27th, 2020 at 1:48 PM ^

Kaepernick's kneeling eventually got him paid, but I haven't seen a single policy change as a result.

True, but it got the ball rolling and brought this debate to the front and center of American (and world) politics.  Without Kap, maybe we go back to the old ways of no one really giving a shit every time the cops murder someone.  "Thoughts and prayers, oh well, back to business as usual."

8.2.0

michgoblue

August 27th, 2020 at 1:04 PM ^

I don't necessarily disagree that this is going to have a huge impact in terms of costing sports billions.  And I agree that this brings publicity.  But, the question is what is this actually aiming to accomplish?  If the goal is to simply spark a discussion, then yes, this is very effective.  But, if the goal is something more concrete, then I am not sure. 

Said differently, what is the list of demands?  If the list is:  (1) end racism; (2) no more police brutality; and (3) equality, that is too amorphous and will not happen.  But, if the list is: (a) reform police tactics during confrontations in the following ways; (b) specific investigation and enforcement mechanisms for officer-involved shootings; and (c) a registry of violations against officers, or some other concrete steps, then I think that there is a chance that this could be VERY effective.   

michgoblue

August 27th, 2020 at 4:33 PM ^

That platform perfectly makes my point.  If this is truly the platform that the NBA is supporting, I suspect that they are going to lose more than a few fans.  I don't really want to get into politics here, but it is unavoidable.  Let's look at the 6 tenets of the BLM platform:

1. "End the war on black people."

This basically amounts to "end racism."  What, specifically, are the NBA players (or BLM for that matter) referring to?  What actual actions do they want to see.

Also, There is racism against countless groups: Jews, blacks, hispanics, gay, transgender, Italians, etc.  So is there to be no more sports until all racism ends?  Funny, since the lease racist place I have ever been is in a locker room.  

2. Reparations for past and continuing harms. (Reparations)

Again, are they asking for a specific dollar amount to be paid?  If so, to whom?  Every black person in the US?  What about black people that have thrived despite racism?  What about to Jewish people who suffered anti-semitism and the Holocaust?  What about to gays who face a ton of discrimination?  Who gets these reparations, how much?  Again, no specifics.

3.  Divestment from the institutions that criminalize, cage and harm black people; and investment in the education, health and safety of black people. (Invest-Divest)

What institutions.  The United States, which for 8 years had a black president?  The banks?  If so, which banks?  What about the banks that have black CEOs?  

I will concede that investment in the education, health and safety of black people is a specific goal.  However, on the state, federal and local level, there is significant investment in these initiatives.  Trump actually just made permanent the US annual endowment to the Historically Black Colleges and Universities (something that Obama actually refused to do).

4.  Economic justice for all and a reconstruction of the economy to ensure our communities have collective ownership, not merely access.(Economic justice)

OK, so abandon capitalism and move to socialism.  Is this a demand of the NBA players.  Or is this something else.  If so, the players should be specific.  Not sure that many people would support this.  

5.  Community control of the laws, institutions and policies that most impact us. (Community control)

Again, no specifics.  Are they advocating for abolishing states and federal government and just having community government.  So basically eliminating the federal constitution and state constitutions.  This is what the NBA players are demanding?

6.  Independent black political power and black self-determination in all areas of society. (Political power)

What does this even mean?  So we are now going to have black government and white government?  Isn't that what the elimination of segregation was intended to avoid?  

Markley Mojo

August 27th, 2020 at 5:49 PM ^

I'm neither white nor black, but I'll try to cover some of these.

1. "End the war on black people": ending racism isn't a specific demand, but expecting police to stop killing black people as potential threats would be a start. I think a United States with less racism toward black people will be a safer world for them, for me, and for my kids.

2. "Reparations": John Conyers repeatedly introduced a bill to study the topic, since it's a really contentious, complicated issue. But up to now, Congress hasn't supported even a study. (I think Sheila Jackson Lee has taken up the tradition now.) We can't have specifics yet, but we have to at least start by thinking about it.

I will say that in the past I opposed reparations because, "I didn't do anything wrong; why should I have to pay toward this?" But I'm also Catholic, and the Church let a lot of bad things happen to people. I didn't do any of that either, but the Church has a responsibility to try to make things right, even if that means some of my donation goes to pay settlements to the people who were harmed (or their estates).

I know there are also continuing harms, policies that disproportionately harm black people today, but I'm not well equipped to discuss them. Strengthening/enforcing the Fair Housing Act and the Voting Rights Act would probably fit under this. Even if we never settle on what reparations would look like, I think it would be healthy to remind everyone that we're effectively running a tab for the policies that let bad cops and bad officials continue to do what they're doing.

3. "Divestment": I think this is primarily aimed at racial bias in law enforcement and corrections. (Maybe "defund the police" falls here?) Also, regarding Obama as a sign that the US can't be racist, Obama wasn't a king and had to deal with the Senate. Individual achievement doesn't solve systemic problems. Jackie Robinson didn't fix racism in sports, Sidney Poitier and Denzel Washington didn't fix racism in Hollywood, and MLK didn't fix racism in America. 

I'm not willing to put myself out there defending the last three, because I haven't thought about them as much. (Although I do believe a well-regulated capitalism is the best option available.)

amr85

August 27th, 2020 at 3:09 PM ^

I'll explain..

The police officer should have refrained from shooting Jacob Blake in the back.

Jacob Blake should have refrained from fighting with police, resisting arrest and going towards his vehicle which had a weapon in it. He should have put his hands behind his back, sat in the back of the police car and went to jail for the crimes that he committed.

Kyle Rittenhouse should have refrained from going to Kenosha with a rifle.

Joseph Rosenbaum should have refrained from chasing Kyle Rittenhouse and throwing bricks at him.

Anthony Huber should have refrained from chasing Kyle Rittenhouse, hitting him over the head with a skateboard and trying to rip away a rifle that is held onto the body by a sling.

Gaige Grosskreutz should have refrained from chasing Kyle Rittenhouse, pointing a gun at him and trying to take a rifle that is held onto the body by a sling.

 

All of these actions are incredibly stupid and have consequences.

 

gustave ferbert

August 27th, 2020 at 11:37 AM ^

I have a feeling this is what is going to deflate professional sports. . . 

People rely on sports for entertainment and an escape.  Right or wrong, this is going to turn off fans. . 

michgoblue

August 27th, 2020 at 1:07 PM ^

I am also turned off by cops murdering black people.  Very much so.  

But, one of the things that I like about sports is that they are entertainment - an escape from the politics and problems of the world.  With sports being so embroiled in politics, it loses that aspect.  

It is possible to be turned off by both cops killing blacks and by the protests overshadowing the escapist nature of sports.  

michgoblue

August 27th, 2020 at 4:04 PM ^

There are a number of ways to go about making change:

1.  Social media - these guys have massive social media platforms and millions of followers.  They can use that platform to reach millions.

2.  Elect officials who have views that align with the change sought.  These athletes, with their massive platforms, have the ability to really get out the vote for those that they think will be favorable to their cause.  

3.  Outreach to those already elected to engage those in power in a discussion.  This seems a bit obscure, but if someone like a Michael Jordan / LeBron James publicly invited someone like Trump (no politics, per say, but I know that many believe that he is anti-change on racial injustice), my guess is that Trump would accept the invitation.

As for "getting through to those who can make a change," this really goes to the question of what actual and practical change are they seeking?  The change can't be "end racism" or "stop individual cops from being racist animals."  But, if the change is specific reforms to the policing tactics or training, or specific community engagement initiatives, then, again, it all starts with electing officials that agree with those changes or working with those already in power. 

All of that can be done, however, outside of the actual games.  If the NBA continues to go down this path, unfortunately these guys are going to lose their platform as many people are going to simply stop watching altogether.  I can't tell you how many people I know that have stopped watching the NBA because of the players wearing slogans on the back of their jerseys and the floor being covered with BLM.  This is reflected in the NBA's terrible ratings.  During a pandemic, with people starved for sports, the NBA should be killing it, but so many people tuned out, as they did during the initial NFL-Kap year.  While many people here agree with BLM, the reality is that it is a politically charged issue and many people - even those who are favorable to BLM vies - simply don't want to see it when they are taking time from their already stressful lives to be diverted and entertained.  

swalburn

August 27th, 2020 at 1:53 PM ^

Great Point, I unfollowed ESPN across the board today.  It is not because I think these athletes are wrong.  I understand what they are hoping to accomplish, but sports were always my escape.  There is so much bad news everywhere, it is just hard to have it in the things I have always used as an escape.

TIMMMAAY

August 27th, 2020 at 11:44 AM ^

A lot of people are coddled fucking assholes, who have never had to really reckon with their own twisted beliefs. I'm glad this is all happening, even if the world seems to be falling apart at the moment. 

As long as everyone votes in November, I think this will all eventually improve our society a great deal. Vote. 

Vote. 

Vote. 

CJW3

August 27th, 2020 at 12:41 PM ^

Indeed. I hope they examine how our economic system demands the most barbarous forms of exploitation in order to funnel the maximum amount of money to a tiny group of elites. Perhaps their discovery of the strike as an organizational tool will lead them and others to see it as a basis for a new system of production.

DCGrad

August 27th, 2020 at 6:31 PM ^

That's a terrible analogy.  If the cashier quits at McDonald's, they hire a new one the next day.  If (for example) Patrick Mahomes quits the Chiefs, they are completely screwed.  Chiefs ownership will do whatever they can to keep Mahomes around, McDonald's will fire someone or let someone quit without thinking twice.

Bo Harbaugh

August 27th, 2020 at 12:15 PM ^

Athletes growing up in the inner city, afraid of gangs on the one side and police on the other - many in poverty conditions, coddled?  Curious, exactly how many of these athletes are identified in grade school?  Yeah, that coddled Lebron James and Kevin Durant had it so easy through elementary and middle school.