Let’s talk about sweet Lou Whitaker
This may have already been posted, but at this point I can’t be bothered to read all the trash thread titles to be certain. Anyway, sweet Lou was awesome. here is an article that helps make his HoF case.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/lou-whitaker-turned-a-damn-good-double-play/
Let's see what this ends up devolving into.
If Whitaker had compiled the exact same record with the Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs, or Dodgers, he'd have been voted into the HOF years ago. It's criminal that he's not in.
The ease at which Ryne Sandberg got in just grinds my gears.
Ryno vs Lou is the classic high peak vs long term excellence argument and what importance do you attach to each. IMO Lou should be in no question. Sandberg is a close call for me but I have no problem with him being in.
Yeah it's no question which anyone would have taken on their team at the time. Lou also hit leadoff during an era when those guys were expected to take pitches to show the other guys the pitcher's stuff that day. He was the first batter of the game 911 times, hit .291 with an OBP of .362, taking just 103 strikeouts.
Remember when they went on Magnum PI?FLASHBACK: Alan Trammell and Lou Whitaker make a guest cameo on Magnum, P.I. (Source: https://t.co/hlipIvECph) pic.twitter.com/vVuPbbBHvL
— Vintage Detroit Collection (@VintageDet) June 4, 2018
How do I not remember this? That was great!
It was big news in Michigan back in the day even if you weren’t a baseball or Magnum PI fan. Tim Selleck got batting practice with the Tigers in exchange. He faired pretty well.
Tim?
That was a tipo teabuh.
Fwiw Teeba autocorrected to teabag but I fixed it for you.
That’ll go away if you clear your browser history.
I’d be lost...but might stay out of trouble with my wife.
A tween Shannen Doherty was in that episode, too.
There is no question. Sandberg was the superior player. Much better at defense (9 Gold Gloves vs. 3) and a better offensive player hands down. Sandberg was the rare player who could play defense, steal bases, hit for average and hit for power. (He won the HR title in 1990 and retired with the most homers at Second). Lou is a very good player and does deserve more HOF consideration, however, he was never -- even for a second -- considered the best player in the league. Sandberg was.
User name checks out here.
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Not a bad post ... except maybe for the Gold Glove part. Why? That award has historically been partly about inertia. Discussion here:
https://www.si.com/more-sports/2010/11/10/gold-gloves
tl;dr: Win one and unless you drop off precipitously by some measures, you'll win a bunch more.
You forgot the /s
Sandberg should have gotten in before the third ballot. It took him too long considering he was the best at the position for his era and maybe all time.
Well, the one thing that is absolutely indisputable about Whitaker is he has the greatest personalized cheer in the history of sports:
LOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUU!
Was always the best taking new fans to tigers games and always looking confused when he came up to the plate. The bravest ones would actually ask "why are they booing him?"
I did the same thing when my dad took me to my first game as a kid. "Why are they booing him dad?" My dad cracked up.
I went to the game where they retired Tram’s number and when they announced Lou and we did the cheer, it gave me goosebumps.
You would certainly have to add St. Louis to that list or, in my opinion, if he had played anywhere in the NL. Maybe it's because I grew up as an AL fan, but the writers and HOF seem to have a hard-on for NL guys.
Well laid-out article. Thanks for posting! Sweet Lou is one of my favorite all-time players of any sport. Inspired me to play 2B. I hope he eventually gets in to the Hall of Fame, where he belongs.
My favorite Tiger. The biggest problem with the HOF is that it's voted by writers who let personal opinions based on their interactions with players during their times in locker rooms, and Lou was a practicing Jehovah's Witness during his playing days, and he spent a lot of time trying to convert people.
I didn’t know this point. Thanks for sharing. I thought it was the writers’ bias toward big market teams, but this adds another layer.
That is part of it. Also he was standoffish with the reporters. Not mean or ornery to them, just avoided the press. Some say it was shyness, others think it had to do with him being a Jehovah's Witness. I don't know.
But the writers held that against him and still do. They like their butts kissed.
I’ve met him a few times casually and he can be very friendly, but he does have a kind of social awkwardness about him.
It’s not bad a thing but, like you said, idiot reporters who want quote machine players probably found it off putting.
Apparently, Joe DiMaggio was also a bit standoffish with the press, whether it be shyness or wanting privacy. It took Joe DiMaggio three years of eligibility before he was elected to the Hall of Fame. That should have been the sign that the election need to be taken away from writers and given to a veteran's committee.
He also got in trouble with fellow players during the 1995 strike when he showed up to a players meeting in a limo and wearing a suit. Just about everyone else was in jeans, or everyday clothes. It's a minor thing, but people can hold grudges a long time.
Either way, he's a Hall of Famer.
This is a big reason why Jack Morris isn't in the HOF. He wasn't particularly interested in being chummy with sportswriters, and sometimes was pretty dickish with them, which is understandable since a large portion of them are complete idiots.
Morris was inducted in 2018
Too young to have watched him play or to know much about this with any first hand experience, but this was a really well written article and it’s a bummer to see he’s struggled (and probably will continue to struggle) to gain traction with voting into Cooperstown. I think it speaks volumes that Tram spent a portion of his speech pointing to Whitaker as being basically his equal and, in a round about way, seems to suggest that neither he nor Lou would be where they are in baseball’s history without each other
He was a great player and I was fortunate to grow up watching it all. One of things you won't hear much about was his arm - he had a cannon and that was one of the reasons they were able to turn so many double plays. My hope, and Billy Ripken said the same thing, was that Trammell and Whitaker went into the HOF together. That would have been so right.
Yup, cannon! Also loved seeing him relay from outfielder to home.
Felt his hitting was super clutch too. Anyway, he should've been in with Tram.
Great point about Lou's arm. Many double plays saved and runners thrown out at third or home because of it. And it was so much fun to see Lou lead off the game or the inning with a homer. Definite HOFer. In this age of free agency, there will never be a combo like Tram and Lou again.
He was simply just a joy to watch. He fielded second base more smoothly than anyone else playing the game - the nickname (Sweet Lou) was more about his fielding than anything else. And he wasn't bad with the bat, either. Certainly not a power hitter, but he wasn't an easy out by any stretch. He and Alan Trammel had such a sync between them... It really is a shame they didn't go into the Hall together.
"Certainly not a power hitter, but he wasn't an easy out by any stretch."
Total understatement. Whitaker's career wRC+ of 118 puts him on-par with...
120 - Darrell Evans, Dave Parker, Nolan Arenado
119 - Dale Murphy, Derek Jeter, Francisco Lindor, Troy Tulowitzki, Harold Baines
118 - Chase Utley, Barry Larkin, Ernie Banks, Manny Machado, Andres Galarraga, Robbie Alomar
117 - Andre Dawson, Carlton Fisk, Victor Martinez
Whitaker was born a generation too soon. Had he played his entire career in the advanced analytics era, there's no doubt he'd be voted in.
He would have benefitted from today's divisional/postseason setup, too. Under the current setup, the 1980s Tigers would have been a postseason regular:
1983 - Wild card
1984 - Central Division champs
1986 - Central Division champs
1987 - Central Division champs
1988 - Wild card
Maybe they'd have made it to another World Series or two. It would be harder to overlook his career then.
The hall has a ton of dumb biases, not just against small market teams, but also for/against certain positions, eras, races, and types of stats.
To say it's inexact is putting it lightly.
There is also the fact that you only get 10 slots per ballot per voter, which sounds like a lot, but you often end up with certain stretches with a backlog of viable players where great players end up splitting ballots, and other stretches where players benefit from having a very thin batch of viable players (looks in Harold Baines direction).
I thought Harold got in because of Tony LaRussa and some obscure committee. Too bad Sparky is not still with us to lobby for Sweet Lou. People would have listened to his voice.
You're correct. I didn't explain my point properly.
The veterans committee, now known as the "eras" committee was created to give guys who didn't get a proper look a second chance. But the HoF reigned them in a bit after making some questionable picks, and they were relegated to mostly voting in umpires, managers, and players old enough to remember the civil war (no, I'm not even joking).
But after a wave of absolutely loaded induction classes (2015 alone had Pedro, Smoltz, Randy Johnson, and Craig Biggio, with guys like Piazza, Bagwell, Raines, Edgar, and Mussina who didn't make the cut, but eventually would), there is a really thin group of players coming up who haven't been associated with PEDs.
As a result, the Veterens/Eras committee has been given the greenlight to start putting players in again, so guys like Baines, Jack Morris, and Ted Simmons benefitted from a push to make sure there are guys getting in every year.
After Jeter gets in this year (though it's been pushed back), the next group of players is pretty sparse once you remove the guys who are "tainted".
- Curt Schilling ("tainted" by his reputation, but I think he gets in anyway)
- Clemens, Manny Ramirez, & Bonds (PEDs)
- Omar Vizquel
- Scott Rolen
- Billy Wagner
- Gary Sheffield
- Todd Helton
With all these super thin HoF ballots coming up, I think Lou will get in via this committee in the near future, just like Trammell did.
Lou was an exceptional second baseman and his statistics prove it. He and Trammel were the heart and soul of the greatest period of Tiger baseball-and that phenomenal 1984 season. That Sweet Lou in not in the Hall says more about the ignorance and character of the voters than anything else.
For some reason, the event that comes to mind when I think of Whitaker isn't one from Tiger Stadium. It's him hitting a HR in the '86 ASG off Dwight Gooden:
That and forgetting his uniform and glove for the 1985 ASG.
Just read this blog, and it states that 7 of the 8 AL position players are in the HOF. It's and old article, but it mentions that Morris has a shot at the HOF. Well, now that he's in Sweet Lou is the only starter from the AL that season that is not in.
It's a crime that he does not get more love outside of Detroit. Borderline HOF'er for sure, but has a better case than some already in.
Its a travesty that Lou is not in the HOF. Should have been in there years ago.
If Trammell is in Whitaker should be in. It's not a logical argument but it's my argument.
I always felt he was better than Trammel myself.
Trammel was better at peak, Lou was above average longer.
If only Sweet Lou played for the Yankees. He'd have been in the HOF years ago.
Lou was never popular with the writers.I think it was Joe Falls who used to rag on him and call him sour Lou.No doubt he belongs and should have went in with Tram years ago.