Klatt on Super Bowl Late Holding Call: Bad Call
He gives several good examples of bad officiating having too much of an impact determining the outcome of big games, including the overturned UM touchdown in the CFB Semi's.
The reason why the defensive holding call on the Eagles was bad was that it was the first defensive holding call or DPI called all game. The strike zone had been set. That wasn't the first tug on a receiver's jersey all game. Be consistent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUiJcudaruE&list=TLPQMTQwMjIwMjNwKfXP6liDwg&index=2
February 14th, 2023 at 4:29 PM ^
LOL!!! We both have valid points - and this is why its so hard, and fun, to argue these!
February 14th, 2023 at 5:29 PM ^
February 14th, 2023 at 12:25 PM ^
I am sympathetic to those who haven't played the games very much-in their belief that the call was legitimate and well-founded. But for those who have played, the inappropriateness of this call has to be understood.
February 14th, 2023 at 12:43 PM ^
Right. The issue isn't whether or not that was holding on that specific play. The issue is that the officials defined what holding was by what they called and what they didn't call all game. Be consistent. If you believe that was holding, than the officials should have called it earlier. For the players' sake, be consistent.
The NHL had this problem years ago only in the opposite direction. In the playoffs, the refs used to swallow their whistles. Their reasoning was that "they didn't want their officiating to determine the outcome of the game / series". Eventually they realized that by not being consistent, by calling the game differently in the playoffs and toward the ends of games, they were influencing the outcomes of the games. I think they still tend to let the players play but it is much better than it used to be.
February 14th, 2023 at 12:52 PM ^
Right. It's very similar to an ump's strike zone. Players have to live with each ump's strike zone, and they're all different. But each ump should be consistent throughout a game. If the ump's calling them high, the players understand that's the way it's going to go and adjust accordingly.
February 14th, 2023 at 1:02 PM ^
Different perspective from someone who played a different sport (and reffed a few games also), it is always the players responsibility to not get called for a penalty late in a game. Even when the refs are inconsistent. Yes, it makes it much harder on a player, but even if you have been allowed to get away with something all game, you can bet the opposing players and coach have been in the refs ear about it all game and eventually it will catch up with you. For Philly it sucks it caught up to that player at that moment. But even if he had been getting away with it up to that point, you're still leaving it in the refs hands when you choose to do it.
February 14th, 2023 at 1:15 PM ^
The guy playing in the game and allegedly the victim of this "appropriate" call said it was holding.
February 14th, 2023 at 1:28 PM ^
People are making way too much of this. The NFL is very strict about blatantly criticizing officials. I bet if you asked him in private he would say he had been doing that sort of holding all game and it’s disappointing that they only called it at the most critical moment.
February 14th, 2023 at 2:54 PM ^
Right. He answered the question honestly. But the question that would have mattered didn't get asked, that being, "Is there holding like that on every play?". It's the obvious "yes" answer to that that has people rightfully fired up.
February 14th, 2023 at 3:48 PM ^
Did they ask him if he held on any other plays or if he saw any other similar during the game? Hard to take anything from the comment other than honesty of it. Probably would have helped himself if he had kind of added that, though.
February 14th, 2023 at 12:26 PM ^
so if there are no DPI or holdings before the last 4 minutes of a game, we should just take the refs off, then?
You can disagree with it but it happened, it was fairly obvious and the player even admitted it was a hold.
In my opinion that pretty much nullifies it being a "bad call"
February 14th, 2023 at 12:30 PM ^
I disagree. If all game you've been letting much more blatant holds & DPI go uncalled you simply cannot throw the flag there, essentially guarenteeing the Chiefs a victory. Yes by the strick letter of the law it was a hold but there were many far more damning "holds" during the course of the game that the officials ignored. The player's progress wasnt impeeded and the "hold" didnt impact the result of the play.
There was a great article in the Athletic yesterday where multiple NFL coaches & front office personnal said basically the same thing off the record. One went so far as to say "Way to fuck up a great game."
February 14th, 2023 at 12:41 PM ^
That final quote says it all. I thought the officiating was pretty decent up until that DPI at the end. I'm trying to keep my tinfoil hat in the drawer, but if you're going to make your mark on a game as a ref, that's the way to do it. Basically took the Eagles out of the game.
February 14th, 2023 at 2:38 PM ^
Eagles took themselves out of the game by getting exactly 0 stops in the second half. Too many people want to blame the ref and wear tinfoil hats based on one play without considering how that entire 2nd half had gone. Chiefs dominated Philly in the 2nd half and they didnt need the refs. It goes back to the old addage of "don't let the refs decide a game for you".
February 14th, 2023 at 2:56 PM ^
Lame take. The score was 35-35 when the penalty was called, and the Eagles had shown the ability to keep scoring. So what if they hadn't stopped the chiefs at that point? They had them stopped for a FG attempt without that atrocious call. And they were in a position to still play to win.
February 14th, 2023 at 3:51 PM ^
I mean I generally agree but that is what the whole debate is about!? It was 3rd down.
February 14th, 2023 at 10:05 PM ^
I don’t even think it has to be a tin foil hat conspiracy. It was just a shit call. Why the guy decided to throw the flag i don’t know. I do know that I watched the game, and if that call was the only thing a ref saw all game to call a penalty on I don’t buy that for a second. It’s honestly like they waited until the most important time to finally call something. It’s tied, game on the line, if I see something I’m going to call it. Even if I let them play the entire rest of the game. Again, I’m not a fan or hater of either team. It was an awesome game that was ruined at the end by shit refereeing. No NFL wants Mahomes and the Chiefs to win from me.
February 14th, 2023 at 12:54 PM ^
But that's boring. Sure, of course, they should "be consistent". Nobody -- nobody -- disagrees with that. What a bold position to take.
The question is, if you missed a call earlier in the game -- maybe you didn't have the right angle, maybe it just went by you too quickly -- does that mean you can never call it again? And ... even if that's true, how are they supposed to know they missed it earlier in the game, since they're not watching replays?
You really want the refs to say, "my colleague didn't call an obvious late hit earlier in the game, therefore late hits are off the table the rest of the game"? Seriously?
The better question is: "How do we make refereeing better?" But short of having the front office watch multiple replays of every single play to make sure there were no penalties ... or perhaps allowing coaches challenge flags for penalties ... I can't think of a way. It's an inherently flawed process, and either we accept it, or we'd better be prepared for games to take five hours.
February 14th, 2023 at 10:10 PM ^
I don’t see it being that deep. They hadn’t called a DPI/Holding call all game. If that play was the only one all game and that was the requirement to be called I don’t buy it for a second. I think that’s the biggest issue here.
February 14th, 2023 at 1:30 PM ^
I hope that was Dan campbell
February 14th, 2023 at 9:59 PM ^
Right. If this was the most egregious defensive hold in the game, which apparently it was, I’ll eat my fucking hat.
February 14th, 2023 at 12:29 PM ^
the way i saw it.. that was a timing pass. the chiefs had KILLED the eagles with these fake in routes and WRs darting out... he jumped the route, sorta.. and the ball was not thrown away - it was thrown to a spot that i think he gets to without that tug. not the 2nd grab, but the first one as he turned up field.
that slight tug slowed him by a few steps overall and i think it would have been a tD without it.
Also, the eagles got completely outcoached in the 2nd half. where was the offense that was just rolling in the first half?
February 14th, 2023 at 3:11 PM ^
Thats what I'm thinking. it was called because the pass when to the WR that was held. Perhaps they don't call it if its away from the play but if you impact a WR and the ball is thrown in his direction - odds are you're getting hit with the flag
February 14th, 2023 at 3:28 PM ^
dude, it was like 20 yards past him. He would not have gotten close to it.
February 14th, 2023 at 5:47 PM ^
I am in the minority as well. There are two grabs here, the first definitely blew up the timing route. There are angles more telling than this gif.
February 14th, 2023 at 12:30 PM ^
I don’t know if it was holding. I don’t think there was any way he gets to that ball even if he wasn’t held. What irritated me was the egregious holding by the OL during that drive especially on the Mahomes run that never got called.
February 14th, 2023 at 12:30 PM ^
How many times did someone tug / hold on a jersey twice on the same play? And so much so it changed the route? Serious question.
A lot of people seem to be saying, "It happened all game!" but what I saw all game was people *wide* open on brilliant play calls (particularly by Reed), DBs slipping on that crap grass, and sweet contested catches. DBs were often not even close to a receiver.
So what are the figures? I know there was one play in the first half where the Eagles DB turned the guy and that wasn't called (and I think it should have, but it wasn't). How many more? Klatt's video doesn't show any examples, but it sounds like he thinks there were quite a few.
February 14th, 2023 at 12:48 PM ^
Good points. It's hard to imagine that there wasn't more holding going on earlier but you're right, you'd have to watch a wide shot replay of the game to know for sure.
February 14th, 2023 at 12:54 PM ^
I can't recall every instance but we were calling it out all game (like we always do because my husband has an overdeveloped sense of justice and nothing angers him more than to see a player get away with holding).
February 14th, 2023 at 1:01 PM ^
Then why haven't Orlovsky or Klatt put together a clip package of these holds? Klatt works for Fox -- he surely has access to the All-22 from the SB and has access to an intern who can whip this together in an hour or so.
I just think "show, don't tell" would be far more effective in making this "it happened all game in similar situations" argument and the fact we are 48 hours later and still haven't seen the clip package makes me dubious.
February 14th, 2023 at 1:11 PM ^
cuz he's busy? who knows.
i know i saw a number of PI or holding calls i noticed that weren't called both ways. i thought "good they're really letting them play" only to have that non-egregious one get flagged.
February 14th, 2023 at 1:12 PM ^
I don't know why Klatt hasn't done it, I'm just telling you that my husband and I do this during every game and this Super Bowl was no exception. It's become a running joke in my house -- my husband may be watching the game but what he's really looking for is all those uncalled holds.
February 14th, 2023 at 2:49 PM ^
As a Michigan fan he must get a lot of practice when we're on defense
February 14th, 2023 at 12:35 PM ^
I'm Eastside Maize and I approve this message.
February 14th, 2023 at 12:39 PM ^
We all know that if this penalty was called against Michigan in a big game, nobody in the media would be suggesting it shouldn't have been called.
February 14th, 2023 at 12:58 PM ^
You're probably joking, but ... I mean, even in this post the OP noted that Klatt criticized one of the big calls that went against Michigan in the Fiesta Bowl.
This idea that the national media hates Michigan is always a weird one, for me. It's both patently not true -- the national media has always loved Michigan -- but also hard to figure out. Why would it be true?
February 14th, 2023 at 1:04 PM ^
How much of this is due to Mahomes being a media darling and now that Brady is gone, he is likely going to be the one that everyone else in the league looks at and says “he gets all the freaking calls.”
February 14th, 2023 at 12:44 PM ^
was it a hold? yes.
were there far more egregious holds happening all game long they didn't call? also yes
is that some bullshit? heck yes
do i think the NFL/refs play favorites and "help" one team towards an easier path to victory? again, also yes
did i care who won the game? no
would I be pissed if I was an eagles fan? yes.
would i lmao if i was a KC fan? hells yes.
February 14th, 2023 at 2:54 PM ^
Did the Eagles have at least 10 other critical plays to prevent KC from winning the game so that the outcome was not decided by that ref? Yes.
Did the Eagles stop KC on any of those 10 critical plays? No.
February 14th, 2023 at 4:05 PM ^
can refs completely cost a team the game? yes
are you arguing against a point i didn't make? yes
February 14th, 2023 at 12:51 PM ^
I like the analogy of the strike zone being set. If you allow a certain level of contact through 58 minutes of the game, you shouldn’t call it tighter in the last 2 minutes.
HOWEVER, has someone gone through the game film and identified instances of similar levels of contact? You can count on 1 hand the number of times either defense stopped a pass. The Chiefs and Eagles corners were getting abused all game. Are we sure there was an equivalent tug on an intended receiver’s jersey earlier in the game? Seems like everyone is just assuming that’s the case…
February 14th, 2023 at 1:22 PM ^
there was 1 play earlier in the game where it was obvious PI that went uncalled. It wasn't egregious but it was definitely PI. Maybe the ref missed it but I doubt it since it happened in a way that most crossing route PI's are flagged (hand around the waist, player is turned).
I agree with you that there needs to be some film breakdown of DBs vs WRs to get a feel of how much the refs were letting go. But nothing is going to change. Say they find 3 or 4 instances of similar defensive holding going uncalled. Nothing will happen.
The real thing the NFL should be getting massive shit for is that dogshit field they put out for the game of the year.
February 14th, 2023 at 12:52 PM ^
Somewhat unrrelated (hopefully) but has there been a team in recent history that enjoyed more favorable calls than the Chiefs? Alll the 50-50 calls go their way and some of the more head-scratching "mistakes" allways seem to favor them as well.
And man, Goodell did himself no favors on this topic when he was pictured celebrating with the Chiefs players after the game. I had no dog in this fight (I'm a Browns fan) but if I was from Philly I'd be losing my shit entirely if I saw this.
February 14th, 2023 at 1:01 PM ^
But ... that's his job, isn't it? To celebrate the Super Bowl Champion team?
February 14th, 2023 at 1:06 PM ^
Also, yeah, they've gotten some big calls. But the referees on the field also reversed a call that the Chiefs had recovered a second-half fumble and taken it in for a touchdown. How big would that play have been in the game?
I mean, obviously -- obviously -- because the NFL wanted the Eagles to win. It's so unfair.
February 14th, 2023 at 1:07 PM ^
he does that with every winning team so not a big deal.
having the head of refs on Jerry Jones party bus the night before the Lions - Cowboys playoff game was some bullshit tho
February 14th, 2023 at 1:14 PM ^
Are we sure this isn't just a picture of these two slow dancing at a high school prom?
February 14th, 2023 at 1:23 PM ^
this didn't include what the mics picked up Goodell saying to Jones. "I don't care how you hit the QB"
February 14th, 2023 at 1:23 PM ^
These posts make me so happy. I am mid 40's and my entire Chiefs fandom was pain until Mahomes arrived. I had always wondered what it was like to be fans of a winning team that other teams fans posted stuff like this about. I just wish that all of these favorable calls had happened more often when I was a kid.
February 14th, 2023 at 1:47 PM ^
The only thing that's missing is a bottle, can, or case - of Bud Light. "I love you, man!"