Jalen Rose Upset with U of M President's Opinion re: Final Four Banners
two tweets:
https://twitter.com/#!/JALENROSE
I saw that U of Michigan has no plans to put back up our hoops banners. Should I do like most of its former BBallers & never return? cont
or should I ask for the $250k I donated for my Endowed Scholarship back & move it to another school? Stay Tuned.
____________
I understand the tough position that MSC is in. hopefully jalen knows that she doesn't speak for everyone in the program or for the fans.
This situation is not as clear as you seem to make it out to be though.
Is it right to punish all for the bad acts of a few? Dunno. Is it true that those banners represent broken rules rather than a piece of Michigan's history? Dunno.
Regardless of how those banners were achieved, one could argue that they represent a part of the history of our program, albeit a dark part of that history. Here is a (poor) example: years after Germany finally came to their senses regarding the atrocities of the crimes their leaders and military had committed during the second World War, the country OUTLAWED the denial of those atrocities and MANDATED education to all German citizens of those atrocities. In other words, rather than hiding their mistakes and hoping that people forgot about them, they forced their mistakes to be known and accepted the fact that they had been made.
I am, of course, not actually trying to compare the Fab 5 to WWII Germany. But, hopefully you can understand my point.
I've been wondering recently if there could be some way to bring the banners back in a symbolic way. Maybe reverse their color schemes, put them on their own rafter separate from the others, hang them upside down, etc. This would allow them to be displayed, but with the message that they were ill-gotten.
Just thinkin' out loud.
I think that if they ever do put the banners back up, they ought to put them in a dark corner of Crisler, away from the other banners. This would be symbolic on many levels.
They would serve as a testament to the darkest part of Michigan's athletic history, but more than that, a quiet defiance. It happened, and we will not run away from it.
The punishment was the the banners had to be down for a period of time.
I agree that you're judged by the company you keep (and tell my kids the same thing). However, there were LOTS of good things about the Fab 5 era as well. By deciding to not put the banners up, MSC is denying the good things that did happen. Why not put the banners back up? Is it to punish the Fab 5 who were involved with the problem or is it to dissuade others from following the same path by not honoring or glorifying ANY part of the Fab 5 era?
Another thin parallel is jail time. If a convict can't get a job after they've served their time, aren't they truly being punished more than just the jail time? Is that maybe the intent? This is a VERY complicated and thorny issue as people assess our justice system differently if they believe it should be punative or rehabilitative. Is the purpose of jail (and the stigma of being a convict) supposed to be so punative that it discourages OTHERS from similar crimes, or is it supposed to be a period that rehabilitates the convict such that they're fit to re-enter society?
I think neither our justice system nor the NCAA are very clear on these issues. As a result both MSC and Jalen can both reasonably have different views on what should happen next.
The punishment was the the banners had to be down for a period of time.
No, the 10-year thing was about how long Webber, Taylor, Traylor and Bullock were banned from associating with Michigan. It had nothing to do with the banners.
When games are vacated, it's not temporary. It's permanent. The NCAA ruled that Webber became an ineligible player, so anything we accomplished with him can't be recognized. You can argue that this is unfair to his teammates, but the NCAA has always operated that way. A lot of the players on the 2010 OSU football team probably didn't get all the benefits Terrelle Pryor did, but their season is wiped out, too.
Webber being ineligible means anything that was accomplished with him won't be recognized by the NCAA, but Michigan can recognize whatever aspects of the Fab Five era it wants to. Whether Michigan should do so is a separate issue.
I can see why Jalen is pissed, but I don't agree with him. He shouldn't be pissed at MSC, he should be pissed at Webber. It is Chris Webber who shat on the memory of the Fab Five, not MSC.
You can't claim "higher ground" when one foot is in a cesspool;. MSC understands that. I wish Jalen could.
Could always put the banner up with an * Minus Chris Webber hehe
April 12th, 2012 at 10:37 PM ^
What happened to the team? Does one player define a generation movement? Yes, we can all agree that Webber messed up more than any other player on that team and has yet to own up to it. The Michigan family would love an explanation and/or apology for what he did, but let's be real. It's not going to happen. Also, there wouldn't be a Fab Five without Chris Webber. If the Fab Five were to happen at Kentucky in present day, it wouldn't be anything out of the ordinary. They were pioneers in the game, and we should be grateful for their contributions to the game.
This is a classic power struggle. Wealthy alumni/donor versus the school. I love the Fab Five and enjoyed being in school when they were there too, but I have the general opinion that donors need to keep their collective noses out of day-to-day business. Using a donation to threaten the school is just plain lame. I love you, Jalen, but grow up. I'm pretty sure you know the reason why those banners aren't going back up.
Besides, buying banners is what got you guys in trouble in the first place.
If he did pull the $250K, I don't think it would necessarily mean that he was in it for the personal recognition. To him, I think it's all about support: if Michigan isn't going to support him, then why should he support Michigan?
If Jalen's definition of "support" is "very publicly display a record of my accomplishments even though those accomplishments came at the price of a scandal that tarnished the reputation of Michigan" then yes, it IS all about personal recognition for him.
Pretty sure everyone on earth cares more about themselves than they do about their college. If you don't, you are diseased.
When Rose was at Michigan and playing his ass off, most of us (of age anyway) were watching and enjoying some of the most exciting living memories any college basketball fan of any school could have.
MSC was at the University of Iowa.
This explains some of the disconnect.
No Jalen - you shouldn't have broken NCAA rules......
just small amounts of it, compared to the $200k Webber was accused of taking.
I honestly think there's a disconnect between all of MBB history and the Fab Five. To me they give off that vibe, and I haven't heard anything to make me believe that those guys see it any other way. In short, of course they want them hung back up.
Actually, I believe he admitted to it.
Jalen said Ed Martin gave him pocket money in HS, and stuff like a winter coat and new boots/shoes.
IIRC, Jalen was pretty adamant he didn't get $ during his time in Ann Arbor.
Watch the doc the next time its on , he took.
oh how delusional you are.
Get it straight. Of the fab Five, only Webber is known to have taken money from Martin.
There was Jalen, with his minor/admitted indiscretions, which seemed to have been largely irrelevant to the NCAA investigation and Michigan's sanctions. And I don't think too much about that aspect, honestly. I at least appreciate Jalen's candor.
Which brings us back to the subject of what to do with the now-deposed banners from the Fab Five era. And the perfect solution for what to do with them: Burn them. Collect the ashes in a garbage can. And dump the ashes, on the godforsaken grave of Ed Martin.
I can see burning them as being an answer to this whole controversy.
Essentially, Michigan needs closure.
Either hang the damn banners or burn them, but don't leave us in this limbo.
The University and its alumni won't ever fully be able to move past this unless there is some sort of definitive resolution, one way or the other. Embrace the Fab Five, and forgive them of their transgressions, or sever ties with them forever.*
*I don't mean the individuals, but the team.
Oh did he?
Don't put up the banners...but invite them back. Put a mural on the wall of them. Maybe a video that loops of their highlights. All of those. But the games do not count, thus the banners are not valid.
"The games do not count, but don't act like they didn't exist."
Threating to take back a gift is really classy. Best way to get things done is to attach strings to gifts.
Yes and twitter is the best place to express it.
Follow ur heart and seek the banners is better than the banners that seek you.
Jalen - Chris Webber screwed you guys. Sorry, man, but that's just the way it is.
As long as MSC is school prez, those banners are never going back up. This might be resolved when she retires, or if she leaves for another job.
I can see an argument for putting the Fab Five stuff back up, but I want no part of the Mo Taylor, Tractor Trailer, LB, crew.
MSC does not have the final say on this topic. She can only speak for her tenure as pres.
They may well go back up one day. I think that Webber would have to attone in some way though.
Jalen is right. End of story.
Come on, you seriously didn't think we could go more than 12 solid months without something dividing the fan base, do you?
Either you:
A) Didn't grow up with the Fab 5 or didn't care for the Fab 5 when they were at Michigan (as we saw from the Fab 5 doc on ESPN - there were PLENTY of people who felt this way at the time), and you side with Mary Sue
or
B) You have a loving memory of the Fab 5, and realize most of what caused us to get the banhammer happened AFTER the Fab 5 players were done at Michigan, and you side with Jalen.
Team B here, obviously...
a false dichotomy or anything...
I don't even know what that means!
Your post could be used as a textbook example.
Logic? Psshaw. Still something being pushed by the Hairy Christians, imo.
Because I hate America and puppies.
anyone would pick Team A is because they either
A) Support kitten genocide, or
B) Voted for Stalin
WHICH IS IT EiD?!?!?!
You don't vote for Stalin, though. You swear on the eyes of your children that you will support him as he crushes his enemies.
The sad part is, it was a perfectly nice CPSU meeting before he brought up that whole thing.
I was thinking about staying for the three-legged race and bobbing for apples, maybe even trying to dunk the lifesize capitalist pig doll in the tank for charity, but he really weirded a lot of us out with that one. It was right back to my numbered car, apartment and family for me after hearing all that.
This post encapsulates Michigan's relationship with the Fab Five perfectly.
April 12th, 2012 at 10:05 PM ^
Can I go with #3? I chose to remember the games, the players and style they represented and the swagger that went with it. I understand they broke rules and we were punished for them but that doesnt wipe out the memory I have of sitting the Super Dome in 1993 watching the best basketball game I have ever seen or hope to see (the semi-final against Kentucky).
I know on this board I represent a very small percentage of the feelings here but I want the banners up.
IMO, it's not about the money. It's because MSC recognizes that Michigan can't be seen as endorsing a tainted legacy. And reinstalling the banners would amount to endorsing that legacy.
Is it fair to Jalen (or any of his teammates) that Webber's ill-advised Ed Martin dealings ratcheted up what should have been a relatively minor issue into one of the biggest basketball scandals of all time? Not at all. But it's not MSC's fault.
I loved watching that team, their attitude, and all they stood for and against in the public eye. But their legacy is still tainted, and we did not "win" those banners.
Their missteps aside, they did contribute to the university and college basketball as a whole. There's a balance to be struck here. Consequently, I think Jalen should be welcomed back, and we should not pretend like those teams did not exist.
Again, this is just my opinion.
Well she said it herself its not just up to her so relax a final decision hasnt been made.